PFT: NFL from "generally aware" to "approved of"

VectorPrime · Aug 9, 2015

QuantumMechanic said:
Not if the court doesn't allow computers/smartphones in the courtroom. They don't have to. SCOTUS doesn't.

Well then the second its over there will be an avalanche of reports coming out all at once.

Hoodie · Aug 9, 2015

VectorPrime said:
It is. Expect live blogging from inside the court room.

WBZ is sending Jim Armstrong and Steve Burton to cover the hearing. I guess that doesn't help you guys outside MA.
Jim Armstrong did a tremendous job during the Tsarneav trial. You can follow him on twitter at @jimarmstrongwbz. He tweeted that the court doesn't allow live tweeting. But I'm sure he'll tweet when he can.

RobertWeathers · Aug 9, 2015

Hoodie said:
WBZ is sending Jim Armstrong and Steve Burton to cover the hearing. I guess that doesn't help you guys outside MA.
Jim Armstrong did a tremendous job during the Tsarneav trial. You can follow him on twitter at @jimarmstrongwbz. He tweeted that the court doesn't allow live tweeting. But I'm sure he'll tweet when he can.

Send Sarah Underwood. Maybe she can knock some balanced analysis into her dipshit husband's melon.

Pats2000 · Aug 9, 2015

The arbitration process isn't there to change penalties or determine further guilt. That's not the legal purpose. So Goodell can't just use arbitration to change what the penalty and what the suspension was about. He was only supposed to consider the evidence that Brady brought to the table to determine innocence.

XLIX · Aug 9, 2015

I don't expect live tweeting from the courtroom, but I am sure we will get updates as things progress.

Tony2046 · Aug 9, 2015

MagicMarker said:
The hearing on Wednesday is public, I believe.

Yes but what I meant was that both parties might have an indication of which way this could go after Wednesday and I would expect we will hear a lot more about settlement talks, lawsuit potential etc...

SVN · Aug 9, 2015

Hoodie said:
WBZ is sending Jim Armstrong and Steve Burton to cover the hearing. I guess that doesn't help you guys outside MA.
Jim Armstrong did a tremendous job during the Tsarneav trial. You can follow him on twitter at @jimarmstrongwbz. He tweeted that the court doesn't allow live tweeting. But I'm sure he'll tweet when he can.

Steve Burton *facepalm*

SVN · Aug 9, 2015

Ivan said:
In which case it would be in his appeal finding, which it wasn't IIRC. He doesn't get to restate a new case now that they are changing venues. He can say the process was fair and argue that but coming up with new charges after the fact strikes me as ludicrous.

Everything the nfl claims is ludicrous but when has this been about integrity and sense ? NFL claims they can do just that what you describe however ludicrous it may be because of some broad CBA clause. Lets see if judge agrees.

TommyD4207 · Aug 9, 2015

Hoodie said:
WBZ is sending Jim Armstrong and Steve Burton to cover the hearing. I guess that doesn't help you guys outside MA.

"****! **** Berman! Come on, we've been out here all day!"

RobertWeathers · Aug 9, 2015

SVN said:
Steve Burton *facepalm*

Bring back Shelby Scott!

There's a storm a brewin'..

TruthSeeker · Aug 9, 2015

QuantumMechanic said:
This, sadly, could be a stroke of genius by the NYFL.

Since Berman is only reviewing procedure, not judgement/facts, this grounds the punishment on something that I bet players do have notice of and is a type of violation that's been applied to players, as opposed to the "generally aware" BS.

Personally, I think it's just the opposite. Goodell isn't allowed to change the basis of his ruling when the appeal goes before a judge. I'd say that's the definition of a biased process. I expect we'll see what the judge thinks soon enough.

Patriot Missile · Aug 10, 2015

Like others I can't wait to hear how Berman goes about this whole debacle. I know August 12th isn't the end all but I would feel somewhat vindicated if he just ended it right then and there.

If this goes bad then I have lost a tremendous amount of respect in labor law and will be stuck pondering it for quite awhile.

I can't tell you how much I hate the NFL right now. With recent events of them changing their story like some 6 year old that realized he wasn't getting dessert, it just makes my blood boil. Evidently they already thought we were stupid from the get go with the non sense that only New England fan took notice of at first.

Now they throw the "we don't have to be independent" to every fan in the league. I'm hoping Judge Berman will be as insulted as I am as well as all the lawyers that are shaking their heads in disbelief at how above the law they think their CBA agreement is.

neuronet · Aug 10, 2015

XLIX said:
Goodell strengthened the verbiage in order to help his chances of the punishment surviving the appeal.

If the judge has half a brain he will realize that even the non-independent investigator doesn't support what Goodell says. The judge isn't there to just accept Goodell's word for it, but to look at both sides impartially. And that should be the unraveling of Goodell's ********.

Oswlek · Aug 10, 2015

OK, in summary

* Goodell just so happened to conclude he was right in his first decision
* Not only did Goodell uphold his earlier sanctions, he went beyond standard arbitrator duties and strengthened the case for no reason other than preparing for the inevitable court case.
* The primary evidence Goodell based this increase on is a documented lie.
* Despite numerous refutations to Exponent's methodology, Goodell maintained that there was no natural explanation for the deflation.
* Despite Exponent's own conclusion that the psi drop beyond expectation was a trivial 0.35 pounds, Goodell referred to it as a "substantial" amount.
* The writers of the "independent" report were advocating - even cross examining - for the NFL.
* The NFLPA was refused access to the notes that supported the "independent" report.
* The NFL edited the "independent" report before it was released to the Patriots and the public.
* Solely in response to their obvious machination, the NFL now says the report was never independent and never needed to be.

Sounds fair to me. Why is Brady being such a crybaby?

Ring 6 · Aug 10, 2015

Oswlek said:
OK, in summary

* Goodell just so happened to conclude he was right in his first decision
* Not only did Goodell uphold his earlier sanctions, he went beyond standard arbitrator duties and strengthened the case for no reason other than to make is stronger for the inevitable court case.
* The primary evidence Goodell based this increase on is a documented lie.
* Despite numerous refutations to Exponent's methodology, Goodell maintained that there was no natural explanation for the deflation.
* Despite Exponent's own conclusion that the psi drop beyond expectation was a trivial 0.35 pounds, Goodell referred to it as a "substantial" amount.
* The writers of the "independent" report were advocating - even cross examining - for the NFL.
* The NFLPA was refused access to the notes that supported the "independent" report.
* The NFL edited the "independent" report before it was released to the Patriots and the public.
* Solely in response to their obvious machination, the NFL now says the report was never and never needed to be independent.

Sounds fair to me. Why is Brady being such a crybaby?

Also, the NFLPA appealed to the arbitrator that it wanted a hearing and findings on whether Roger Goodell was within his authority to delegate the decision to Troy Vincent. Goodell ruled, without hearing, that Goodell was right to do what he did.

The NFLPA said that Goodell should not be arbitrator because Goodell was a witness they intended to call. Goodell ruled, without hearing, that Goodell did not have to testify therefore Goodell could preside.

Goodell has called Brady 'a great young man' while concluding he cheated, lied, destroyed evidence, covered it up, hatched a scheme, and approved of cheating by others, and in fact paid them off to do it.

Palm Beach Pats Fan · Aug 10, 2015

it is disgusting that the league’s story keeps changing and changing.

This hearing is supposedly about the fairness and CBA-compliance of the NFL's investigation, Goodell's fine, and the appeal by Goodell.

Thus the fairness of these issues should be based upon the reasoning that Goodell gave at the time, not some new spin that is being retroactively applied to the previous ruling.

They can't get away with this, can they?

RobertWeathers · Aug 10, 2015

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:
it is disgusting that the league’s story keeps changing and changing.

This hearing is supposedly about the fairness and CBA-compliance of the NFL's investigation, Goodell's fine, and the appeal by Goodell.

Thus the fairness of these issues should be based upon the reasoning that Goodell gave at the time, not some new spin that is being retroactively applied to the previous ruling.

They can't get away with this, can they?

It is disgusting but they are doing it for legal reasons.

They want their actions and tone in front of Berman to reflect how strongly they feel that they are operating in the "spirit" of the CBA and Article 46.

IMO the league is deathly afraid of a ruling against them establishing a precedent and a foundation for players to take them to court every time a suspension is levied.

TruthSeeker · Aug 10, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
Goodell has called Brady 'a great young man' while concluding he cheated, lied, destroyed evidence, covered it up, hatched a scheme, and approved of cheating by others, and in fact paid them off to do it.

Clearly Roger Goodell is working hard to be known as a great man himself.

patsfan13 · Aug 10, 2015

I wonder if Berman tipped off which way he is leaning when he released the appeal transcript. Goodell has been ripped for the lies and smears in his 20 page ruling. The NFL didn't want this released.

A slap in the face from the Judge?

lusdawg · Aug 10, 2015

TruthSeeker said:
Clearly Roger Goodell is working hard to be known as a great man himself.

"The one thing I would hope would go on my tombstone is, 'I made my parents proud.'"

R. Stokoe Goodell

PFT: NFL from "generally aware" to "approved of"

Pro Bowl Player

In the Starting Line-Up

Member of the Seattle 7 & Roadie for Metallica

In the Starting Line-Up

Pro Bowl Player

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Member of the Seattle 7 & Roadie for Metallica

PatsFans.com Supporter

Pro Bowl Player

Homer Little

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

PatsFans.com Supporter

Pro Bowl Player

Member of the Seattle 7 & Roadie for Metallica

PatsFans.com Supporter

Hall of Fame Poster

Practice Squad Player