PFT: NFL from "generally aware" to "approved of"

TommyBrady12 said:

If Judge Berman has any pro-labor bone in his body, he will see this investigation for what it is.

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Judge Berman could agree with everything that you and I might say, but he could also rule to Uphold the "Arbiter's" decisiopn if he finds that the CBA was broadly (and absurdly) enough written that it permits what Goodell has done.

I look back now on the Kumbaya moment in 2011 when many of us were beside ourselves with joy after Jeff Saturday and Robert Kraft hugged and a strike and a strike-shortened season was avoided...that was a 10 year agreement with no opt-out provision and runs until after the 2020 season. It turns out one of the major things the owners (including Kraft) wanted (and got) was the unlimited power of the Commissioner in these regards.

I have to look back on that moment and I have to look myself in the mirror and I have to admit to myself how pissed off I would have been had the NFLPA held a strike over this issue five years ago...and how wrong I would have been.

If I were part of Brady's legal team I would argue (perhaps not this verbatim) that a compromise of an arbitrary punishment is not a compromise it's a psychological tactic/strategy the NFL is using. If you wanted a neighbor to help you paint your house during the upcoming weekend, you might first ask them to loan you $100,000, when they are shocked and refuse, you then ask them to help you paint your house which now seems like an easy compromise for them.

Because the NFL set an arbitrarily high penalty of a 4 game suspension, they are trying to strongarm them to settle somewhere in between which will still be an enormous penalty defying all precedent, and is by definition not consistent and fair as required by the CBA. If they had suspended Brady for a full season, the same tactic would make Brady look unwilling to compromise at a settlement of 8 games, which would be twice as many as he's facing now. "We will not negotiate arbitrary numbers." etc

Any negotiating must start with a full vacation of the suspension which has no precedent.

PatsFanSince74 said:

Judge Berman could agree with everything that you and I might say, but he could also rule to Uphold the "Arbiter's" decisiopn if he finds that the CBA was broadly (and absurdly) enough written that it permits what Goodell has done.

I look back now on the Kumbaya moment in 2011 when many of us were beside ourselves with joy after Jeff Saturday and Robert Kraft hugged and a strike and a strike-shortened season was avoided...that was a 10 year agreement with no opt-out provision and runs until after the 2020 season. It turns out one of the major things the owners (including Kraft) wanted (and got) was the unlimited power of the Commissioner in these regards.

I have to look back on that moment and I have to look myself in the mirror and I have to admit to myself how pissed off I would have been had the NFLPA held a strike over this issue five years ago...and how wrong I would have been.

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Props on how rational and we'll versed you have been throughout this, it has brought clarity to the board.

Ivan said:

Props on how rational and we'll versed you have been throughout this, it has brought clarity to the board.

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Thank you. I still have no idea how this guy is going to rule. I could easily see him going either way. The thread on the NYT article is very useful and I posted another longer comment on the Judge there, but my comment breaks little new ground from other things I have posted this week, since the article confirms what I have been saying.

QuantumMechanic said:

This, sadly, could be a stroke of genius by the NYFL.

Since Berman is only reviewing procedure, not judgement/facts, this grounds the punishment on something that I bet players do have notice of and is a type of violation that's been applied to players, as opposed to the "generally aware" BS.

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XLIX said:

Goodell strengthened the verbiage in order to help his chances of the punishment surviving the appeal.

The NFLPA is absolutely right; when has a player even been punished for being "generally aware" something was happening? The NFL has to up the ante by turning Brady from a passive observer to an active participant.

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I see the logic of your point.
What confounds me is that the original 4 game punishment was based on the flimsy "generally aware" accusation, yet the appeal denial is suddenly based on a much stronger, escalated charge.
What basis was there in the appeal that justifies this escalation?
Yes, it's a rhetorical question.

PatsFanSince74 said:

Judge Berman could agree with everything that you and I might say, but he could also rule to Uphold the "Arbiter's" decisiopn if he finds that the CBA was broadly (and absurdly) enough written that it permits what Goodell has done.

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Even if the CBA theoretically permits malfeasance, it doesn't change the law. If the law says "You can't do X, period," a CBA can't overcome that. So it's not merely a question of what the CBA says, but what the CBA says versus the relevant laws.

It's truly astounding that a moron such as Goodell can:

1. Rise through the ranks of the NFL to become the commissioner;
2. **** up almost everything football he touches;
3. Do more to damage the term integrity so much so that it means absolutely nothing in context anymore; and
4. Remain in the position of commissioner.

Pushing aside the financial remuneration component of his business dealings, his continued incompetence nay destruction of the brand would have had him terminated from my employ some time ago.

To think, I once supported the business job this piece of slime was performing. Shame on me.

ausbacker said:

It's truly astounding that a moron such as Goodell can:

1. Rise through the ranks of the NFL to become the commissioner;
2. **** up almost everything football he touches;
3. Do more to damage the term integrity so much so that it means absolutely nothing in context anymore; and
4. Remain in the position of commissioner.

Pushing aside the financial remuneration component of his business dealings, his continued incompetence nay destruction of the brand would have had him terminated from my employ some time ago.

To think, I once supported the business job this piece of slime was performing. Shame on be.

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THIS!!!

ausbacker said:

It's truly astounding that a moron such as Goodell can:

1. Rise through the ranks of the NFL to become the commissioner;
2. **** up almost everything football he touches;
3. Do more to damage the term integrity so much so that it means absolutely nothing in context anymore; and
4. Remain in the position of commissioner.

Pushing aside the financial remuneration component of his business dealings, his continued incompetence nay destruction of the brand would have had him terminated from my employ some time ago.

To think, I once supported the business job this piece of slime was performing. Shame on be.

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and they pay him $44 M to do it!

PatsFanSince74 said:

Judge Berman could agree with everything that you and I might say, but he could also rule to Uphold the "Arbiter's" decisiopn if he finds that the CBA was broadly (and absurdly) enough written that it permits what Goodell has done.

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I think this thought has been beat into the heads of everyone who reads these boards (not really directing at you, just in general) and probably very few of us would guarantee a victory. One thing (maybe) worth noting is section 46 has been in existence for all sports for quite some time and this seems to be the first time it has been used as a cudgel and interpreted as ultimate power. Perhaps its to be worked as ultimate discretion in the sense that people are purposely throwing games/setting an opponent up to fail?

I think section 46 would require something that is obvious and immediately identifiable as an advantage. Something that wouldn't need a study or stats to back it up. Like a plan to throw interceptions to DBs at crucial times or offensive lines allowing blockers through unfettered to the QB, ...

In the history of sports, how often has it come up? the fact that Goodell is trying to use it as a mechanism and it hasn't been used before is telling me that the intent of the CBA isn't being met. Probably hopeful thinking on my part, but Berman is either going to be trying to establish a new precedent that's a slippery slope or he's going to work this through based upon history. History should favor the NFLPA (even with arbitration not likely to be overturned -- but can we call this unqualified individual - Goodell a real arbitrator or did Goodie put the word traitor in arbitrator -- phonetically )

PatsFanSince74 said:

I have to look back on that moment and I have to look myself in the mirror and I have to admit to myself how pissed off I would have been had the NFLPA held a strike over this issue five years ago...and how wrong I would have been.

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Definitely, we all had no idea what any of it meant, other than we get what we want. Sadly, we now join the Saint fans in knowing (A) what it means and (B) what a total %$#! Goodell really is.

Ivan said:

I doubt it, Kessler is challenging the NFL on the generally aware of standard and the judge is definitely going to want to know how the language changed after the sanctions. I don't think Berman is an idiot and I believe he will see right through this charade. And as mentioned I think this should push Brady to a defamation suit.

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NFL is arguing that commisioner ahole has the executive power to do that as per the CBA to make his own judgement .

Brady should give the NFL this option...

• Remove the 4 game suspension

• Give the Patriots 1st and 4th back including the fine

In return, Brady will not sue the **** out of the NFL for 100 million dollars.

I wonder what the NFL owners would opt for??

QuantumMechanic said:

This, sadly, could be a stroke of genius by the NYFL.

Since Berman is only reviewing procedure, not judgement/facts, this grounds the punishment on something that I bet players do have notice of and is a type of violation that's been applied to players, as opposed to the "generally aware" BS.

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Yep. They are hoping the judge disregards the evidence and looks at the CBA and what the NFL is entitled to do.

I sent Goodell an offer f4or his vacation mansion in Maine...I offered him 5 bucks...and a self addressed envelope with a stamp for his reply. Anxiously awaiting a reply....

Why can't the science be brought into this case before the judge? I ask because of this quote from the NFL's brief: (Brady) “‘knew about, approved of, consented to, and provided inducements’ in support of a scheme to tamper with the game balls used in the AFC Championship Game.”

There is no evidence to support the claim there was 1. A scheme, 2. Any tampering. How can the judge fairly rule on punishment when he's faced with the a lack of a 'crime'?

And if nothing else, this quote from the NFL's brief is reprehensible. They continue the charade that they have evidence of tampering at the AFCCG, when there is none. They have no previous standard to prove what happened to the balls was unusual, let alone tapering. The NFL's 'science' has been dismissed wide and far beyond the fact they have no agreed upon standard to determine what happens to game balls in cold weather. On top of the fact that different gauges used showed different PSI and those gauges were not presented for calibration.

Just what is the NFL after here? Destroying their glamor boy for the sake of the commissioner? That makes no sense since that glamor boy has funneled tens of billions of $$ into the owner's pockets. The commish has been nothing short of joke for 2 years running. He's the one who should be twisting in the wind.

KDPPatsfan85 said:

Brady should give the NFL this option...

• Remove the 4 game suspension

• Give the Patriots 1st and 4th back including the fine

In return, Brady will not sue the **** out of the NFL for 100 million dollars.

I wonder what the NFL owners would opt for??

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I wonder if we will here more about this after Wednesday.

Tony2046 said:

I wonder if we will here more about this after Wednesday.

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The hearing on Wednesday is public, I believe.

MagicMarker said:

The hearing on Wednesday is public, I believe.

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It is. Expect live blogging from inside the court room.

VectorPrime said:

It is. Expect live blogging from inside the court room.

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Not if the court doesn't allow computers/smartphones in the courtroom. They don't have to. SCOTUS doesn't.

SVN said:

NFL is arguing that commisioner ahole has the executive power to do that as per the CBA to make his own judgement .

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In which case it would be in his appeal finding, which it wasn't IIRC. He doesn't get to restate a new case now that they are changing venues. He can say the process was fair and argue that but coming up with new charges after the fact strikes me as ludicrous.