PFT: NFL from "generally aware" to "approved of"

What's the next step if this BS is upheld, they didn't file an injunction, so how does this play out? I'm sure this has been answered somewhere I just haven't seen it.

This is all legal posturing, as time goes on and the legend grows what Brady allegedly did will become more heinous.. this is the genesis of a "legend"..

An innocuous event like giving an employee an autographed ball or sneakers gets interpreted as something very bad... shhhhhhhh!!! Don't tell Rogah, but this happens in every locker room.

VectorPrime said:

But how can they retroactively change it?

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See, procedure is only valid upon the evidence that drove that procedure. The evidence is most definitely in play. I would think the only way it isn't looked at is if there is no lying or otherwise going on. If a plaintiff is just complaining about the punishment then that's a no go. This is not that situation and the judge most definitely will or should see this for what it is.

And no, the NFL can't now double down and state that he knew and contributed to the deflation at this point. Remember everyone was saying in courts "generally aware" was sufficient because that is the standard of the CBA and the NFL. I think we are seeing that was BS because the NFL would not have just said what they said. Even leaving the admonishment of the rhetoric aside, I cannot see how the judge is happy with the NFL and their constant deception and propaganda. I would look at as they are trying to influence me, and that would not go over well.

mgteich said:

Don't you mean tactics that are used by lawyers and defendants in almost every court case to make it more likely that their side wins?

I'm sure those who support the league considers the conduct of Yee over the past months to be equally offensive.

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Really? Has Yee lied about the content of the evidence and let that lie stay out there for several months?

robbomango said:

What's the next step if this BS is upheld, they didn't file an injunction, so how does this play out? I'm sure this has been answered somewhere I just haven't seen it.

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2nd circuit court of appeals and Brady plays while the appeal is going on.

Is this going to be on live TV? I'd love to see how Berman reacts to all of this.

I understand Brady is appealing his 4 game suspension for being "generally aware". But, how can this new scheming fit in, wouldn't Goodell have to go back to the drawing board to issue such a penalty? You can't change the penalty during an appeal (even if that's what isn't being reviewed by the Judge).

RelocatedPatFan said:

Is this going to be on live TV? I'd love to see how Berman reacts to all of this.

I understand Brady is appealing his 4 game suspension for being "generally aware". But, how can this new scheming fit in, wouldn't Goodell have to go back to the drawing board to issue such a penalty? You can't change the penalty during an appeal (even if that's what isn't being reviewed by the Judge).

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I thought I read that reporters would be allowed in but no cameras.

If Brady knew his penalty was for running a scheme and bribing Patriots staff, then he might have MacNally and Jastremski to testify at the appeal. That ought to be lack of notice also.

robbomango said:

What's the next step if this BS is upheld, they didn't file an injunction, so how does this play out? I'm sure this has been answered somewhere I just haven't seen it.

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The "next step" is for Brady's team to decide if they want to appeal Berman's decision. My understanding is that that would be the right time to file an injunction (if they so choose).

I won't even begin to speculate what the Brady team would decide to do. That decision would involve so many factors that we just don't have available to us.

QuantumMechanic said:

This, sadly, could be a stroke of genius by the NYFL.

Since Berman is only reviewing procedure, not judgement/facts, this grounds the punishment on something that I bet players do have notice of and is a type of violation that's been applied to players, as opposed to the "generally aware" BS.

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Berman may only be reviewing procedure and not judgment/facts, but the change itself is procedurally iffy, because it means the arbitrator independently introduced new facts as the essential basis of his award, outside what has already been argued by either party to the dispute. If new evidence that came up in the appeal hearing convinced Goodell-as-arbitrator that Brady actually actively induced McNally and Jastremski to deflate footballs, that doesn't mean that Vincent-as-Goodell-as-commissioner's original disciplinary decision was correct and should have been upheld, it means that Goodell-as-arbitrator should have reduced or vacated the decision based on what is supported in the CBA and precedent by the "general awareness" standard and then had Vincent-as-Goodell-as-commissioner write a second decision taking into account new evidence that Brady maliciously induced ball deflation. We know that this is the standard of modifying disciplinary decisions after new evidence affects the findings of fact from the original disciplinary decision because that was the entire controversy from the Ray Rice case, wherein the dispute was over whether or not there was new evidence and whether or not the new evidence would have substantially altered the original disciplinary decision.

mgteich said:

Don't you mean tactics that are used by lawyers and defendants in almost every court case to make it more likely that their side wins?

I'm sure those who support the league considers the conduct of Yee over the past months to be equally offensive.

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What has Yee done that is dishonest or unethical?

QuantumMechanic said:

This, sadly, could be a stroke of genius by the NYFL.

Since Berman is only reviewing procedure, not judgement/facts, this grounds the punishment on something that I bet players do have notice of and is a type of violation that's been applied to players, as opposed to the "generally aware" BS.

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Except that, quite simply, it's not due process. How are you supposed to mount a defense against a charge that was never directed against you?

There are a lot of grey areas in this mess. I don't know what to think.

mgteich said:

The legal question before the court is whether Goodell did enough to violate the CBA for the courts to vacate the courts for the third (or 4th) time in 68 tries.

Most seem to believe that the answer is "yes". The primary issue is the lack of notice to Brady with regard to players being subject to suspension for the the acts that he is convicted of doing. The CBA fine for such action to a player is a fine of $25K.

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Again, no, it isn't.

The $25K penalty appears in policies that historically have not been provided to players, and are not applicable to players.

As Brady noted, he didn't even know the rule re: PSI of footballs until the JEST game last year.

ctpatsfan77 said:

Except that, quite simply, it's not due process. How are you supposed to mount a defense against a charge that was never directed against you?

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Right on the money. It's striking that the NFL is changing their argument now that it's in front of judges, and that alone should demonstrate that their process was deeply flawed. The Wells Investigation was independent until this went to a judge, now they are their lawyers and attorney client privilege is in play. Brady was suspended for being generally aware of wrongdoing by others, even though there was no proof of that and now he directed a cheating scandal and paid off others to do the deed. The NFL can't defend their process or findings so now they are changing them to try and get them past the judge.

Ivan said:

Right on the money. It's striking that the NFL is changing their argument now that it's in front of judges, and that alone should demonstrate that their process was deeply flawed. The Wells Investigation was independent until this went to a judge, now they are their lawyers and attorney client privilege is in play. Brady was suspended for being generally aware of wrongdoing by others, even though there was no proof of that and now he directed a cheating scandal and paid off others to do the deed. The NFL can't defend their process or findings so now they are changing them to try and get them past the judge.

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GOODELL MUST GO.
Get Tags out of retirement

ctpatsfan77 said:

Again, no, it isn't.

The $25K penalty appears in policies that historically have not been provided to players, and are not applicable to players.

As Brady noted, he didn't even know the rule re: PSI of footballs until the JEST game last year.

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By the way, despite what the BSM says, considering THE NFL didn't give a **** about PSI until January (and clearly don't now). So Brady not knowing about the rule until the Jets game is completely plausible.

Plus, you know, he said it under oath and all.

"Based on the evidence, it also is our view that it is more probable than not that Tom Brady (the quarterback for the Patriots) was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities of McNally and Jastremski involving the release of air from Patriots game balls." - The Wells Report, May 6

"With respect to your particular involvement, the report established that there is substantial and credible evidence to conclude you were at least generally aware of the actions of the Patriots' employees involved in the deflation of the footballs and that it was unlikely that their actions were done without your knowledge." - Troy Vincent's letter to Tom Brady, May 12

"Mr. Brady knew about, approved of, consented to, and provided inducements and rewards in support of a scheme by which, with Mr. Jastremski's support, Mr McNally tampered with game balls." - Roger Goodell's letter to Tom Brady, July 28

QuantumMechanic said:

This, sadly, could be a stroke of genius by the NYFL.

Since Berman is only reviewing procedure, not judgement/facts, this grounds the punishment on something that I bet players do have notice of and is a type of violation that's been applied to players, as opposed to the "generally aware" BS.

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But isn't introducing a new charge during the appeal a process violation? A charge that was never revealed to Brady and one he didn't have a chance to defend against.

Roger Goodell should be swiftly kicked in the groin area.