NFL attorney says NFLPA's move to vacate Brady's Deflategate suspension is 'baseless'

I just realized that I, Joe Kerr the Indestructible , have somehow DIED!

Yes,I am here at the bottom of the ocean stuck in this thread with a bunch of litigators.

It seems I've become the punchline to one of my most overused ,hackneyed jokes...HALPPPPPPPPPP!

Oswlek said:

This is laughably pathetic. An arbitrator is supposed to listen to both sides and decide who has the better argument, not strengthen the side he favors. This further solidifies Goodell as irreparably biased and can't possibly be legal... even more so when you consider the evidence he used to firm up his position is a documented lie.

Seriously, this is like bizarro world or something.

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This is how I've been feeling since early Monday morning, the day after the AFCCG. It's also why I'm no longer terribly optimistic. I'm just too cautious about the outcome at this point. None of it makes any sense to me.

Joker said:

I just realized that I, Joe Kerr the Indestructible , have somehow DIED!

Yes,I am here at the bottom of the ocean stuck in this thread with a bunch of litigators.

It seems I've become the punchline to one of my most overused ,hackneyed jokes...HALPPPPPPPPPP!

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Yeah, I remember the good old days when we'd be discussing a safety coming over the other side of the field and taking a WR's head off.

Now it's just watching a bunch of talking heads discuss their opinions regarding attorneys who practice law.

blackglass3 said:

It's not a defeatist attitude, it's we're getting tired of getting punched in the balls every few weeks. We went from "I want an apology when we are cleared" to "it's time to end the rhetoric we accept all fines and punishment". "I'm thinking there may be a small fine, they aren't finding anything" (Mike Reiss said that in April) to "Patriots and Brady are the biggest cheaters ever!!!!"

Every time something good happens in the press, something much worse follows it up. This transcripts getting released was good for everyone if us tired of seeing Brady's name get dragged through the mud. But I just think it's too little too late. A nutshot is on its way, and I think its this NY judge saying "Sorry Tom, this ain't Judge Doty's house... want a better CBA? Have some conviction next time this comes up and don't bargain it away for no more two-a-days." And honestly, he'd be right to say that...the NFLPA allowed this scumbag to keep this ridiculous power and now we are dealing with it.

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Did you miss the phonies in here during SB week saying if Brady did this they don't want us to win the game. Almost lost my **** reading that crap.

PatsFanSince74 said:

There is a smugness to the NFL's comments that suggest they are confident as to how this will turn out. I hope that I am wrong in that interpretation.

If Berman has in any way signaled that he feels the (absurdly drawn) CBA gives Goodell an "out," no matter how unfair that might be, then this is how I would be acting if I were Goodell. We have to remember that Judge Berman is not being asked to take a view on whether what Goodell has done is "fair," but rather on whether it is permitted by the terms of the CBA. What he's being asked to determine is actually pretty narrowly defined.

The good news is that he's suggested that the sides should "settle," which implies that he thinks there is something to settle. The bad news is that he can bring the hammer down on one side or the other.

My personal view is that Kessler has mounted a strong argument that Goodell has stepped outside the bounds of the CBA, but the fact that the League doesn't feel it needs to offer to settle at this point is worrisome...or it is a bluff.

Goodell has either read Berman correctly or he has decided to go down with the ship.

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There's been a lot of this over the last few years, hasn't there?

Goodell talking about the CBA and absolute power, and the courts slapping him around in the end? I think he's been convinced, either by himself or somebody (an owner or three) that the NFL can simply outspend the NFLPA if it comes down to it.

I've sort of noticed something a bit more nefarious in all this that I don't see being brought up.

Not only does Goodell think he has absolute power outside the law or judicial review to do whatever he wants - but this is now, what, four, five, six cases in a row where the NFL just keeps these going on as long as they can, knowing they've lost, just because...what?

I'm starting to see a real attempt to try to break the NFLPA union.

Brady might be the biggest profile to this point, but it's not going to be the last. Goodell inferred from his "close relationship" with Benedict Kraft that Brady wasn't a "union guy", and gleaned that he would roll pretty fast if even the slightest pressure was put on him, and that he sure wouldn't go to the NFLPA for help.

He was wrong, and pissed that he did, hence this complete sham. Because if he wins this, he really can do whatever he wants, and there's nothing the NFLPA can do, and really no reason for them to exist.

The fact that Brady's not the most beloved guy with the players in the NFLPA doesn't hurt matters in Goodell's eyes either.

Think about it, if the NFL succeeds. If there's no union, the NFL owners can pay whatever they want, suspend whoever they want, and make even more money than what they're making now. If the players are simply considered "At-Will" employees in a majority of "right-to-work" states, this is what would happen.

"...he concluded that [Brady] was involved..."

Involved in what? NOTHING HAPPENED! There is no actus reus.

MagicMarker said:

Maybe the NFL is smug because they don't care if they lose. They already have the Patriots picks. They have unlimited funds -- they can keep doing this and doing this. If they lose every once in a while, so what? There's always another case.

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If I were Goodell, I would be afraid, very afraid. Robert Kraft is coming after me and he's really good at getting what he wants.

Silly me, I falsely believed that Judge Berman told both sides to stop all the rhetoric... but the NFL plays by its own set of rules..

DarrylS said:

Silly me, I falsely believed that Judge Berman told both sides to stop all the rhetoric... but the NFL plays by its own set of rules..

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Not only that but ****dell basically told Berman to stick any kind of settlement up his ass.

TruthSeeker said:

If I were Goodell, I would be afraid, very afraid. Robert Kraft is coming after me and he's really good at getting what he wants.

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Lets hope so now because historically there isn't much pointing to Goody being afraid of Bob.

turkeyneck said:

"...he concluded that [Brady] was involved..."

Involved in what? NOTHING HAPPENED! There is no actus reus.

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This is probably what drives me most nuts.

Not only is there ZERO evidence Brady was involved in anything. There is ZERO evidence there was anything to be involved in!

robertweathers said:

Lets hope so now because historically there isn't much pointing to Goody being afraid of Bob.

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Except for the other two times players took it to court and won.

I thought that Judge Berman wanted both parties to tone down the rhetoric? I guess the NFL thinks they are bigger than the players, fans and now federal law. I don't think Judge Berman is going to be happy with these leaks.

" the integrity of the game "
goodell's favorite line.

It's been discussed here that arbitration cases are very rarely reversed in the court.

That is to be expected. They are not supposed to be.
But, how often does it come up in other industries where the arbitrator is a key player involved in the issue. I would think almost never. So, I'm going to wait and see.

If Berman were to rule for Brady, would the NFL appeal? Or just wait until the next case?

Ivan said:

Any Patriot fan should be happy with these claims. The league would be quiet if they believe they were on solid ground, the fact that they are ignoring Berman's order and shapeshifting their arguments make clear they are scared sh.tless and trying to get out on front of something they no longer have control over. Brady's side is quiet as can be and the league is in panic mode. Sweet.

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Ivan,

I seem to remember many positively glowing, optimistic appraisals from you on this journey of ours.

Sooner or later you'll be right?............I hope so.

Jlaff said:

I wouldn't abandon arguments of that sort, but I personally feel they are better suited to situations where wrongdoing actually took place.

In my 3L opinion, an implied term in the CBA requiring wrongdoing actually take place before a player can be punished seems like the most basic 1L contract law approach, but the simplicity of it doesn't mean it is not an effective argument to make. Wells is a high powered lawyer working at a high powered law office, and he and his team f'd up. I realize Kessler has been effective for the NFLPA thus far, and that he is miles more accomplished than I am, but I worry that in employing his sophisticated, experienced approach he might be missing that basic argument staring him him right in the face. Like Wells, every other lawyer, and most human beings (besides Brady and BB) he's not above making mistakes.

I just hope we don't have to start making threads complaining about a failed strategy employed by Kessler, and how it could have been. From my viewpoint the most effective argument in the court of public opinion has been that no deflation actually took place, and that the NFL disregarded the science of it all (however, not documenting starting PSI would fall under this too). Judges are susceptible to human arguments as well (like that Brady has been the subject of a witch hunt; not that this necessarily fails as a legal argument), no matter how hard they try to pretend they aren't.

Edit: Also, I'm still confident Kessler will take this to the house, just want to see all the bases covered in the 15 pages. Which probably isn't easy either.

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IIRC findings of fact cannot be challenged in this action. Would not the occurrence of wrongdoing be a finding of fact and thus outside the scope of judicial review in this case?

Raymond said:

Ivan,

I seem to remember many positively glowing, optimistic appraisals from you on this journey of ours.

Sooner or later you'll be right?............I hope so.

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No doubt, I have said a number of times that I have been wrong many times throughout this, primarily because I thought logic, science, and common sense would prevail, I honestly didn't think that people with so much to lose would put their names and reputations at risk to try and run a scam like this and I could not have been any more wrong. This is different however, at least imo, because it is no longer being run under the thumb of the league office, so some level of sanity should return to the process. As far as being an optimist I can't help it, I see no point in pessimism as it never gets you anywhere good.

MagicMarker said:

It's been discussed here that arbitration cases are very rarely reversed in the court.

That is to be expected. They are not supposed to be.
But, how often does it come up in other industries where the arbitrator is a key player involved in the issue. I would think almost never. So, I'm going to wait and see.

If Berman were to rule for Brady, would the NFL appeal? Or just wait until the next case?

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I think there's little doubt the NFL would appeal as far as they can on this, they're @ssholes.

carmelo15 said:

Did you miss the phonies in here during SB week saying if Brady did this they don't want us to win the game. Almost lost my **** reading that crap.

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A whole lot of cowards here