NFL attorney says NFLPA's move to vacate Brady's Deflategate suspension is 'baseless'

Fencer · Aug 8, 2015

ANGR89 said:
I guess for me I'm surprised more that he spoke out saying he won't reduce the suspension, when I thought they weren't really suppose to be saying anything right now.

Honestly, I think this is all a red herring. He wasn't smart enough to say "No comment", so he said something meaningless instead.

Pats2000 · Aug 8, 2015

This is a stupid response, Goodell can't change the area of the cba cited for punishment just because he wants to retroactively. Fair hearing, right. No access to investigation documents, because client attorney privilege. They couldn't call key witnesses and it was explained they didn't want his phone. So no reason for him to keep it for any reason. Oh and btw, so much for the independent investigation. If it was independent, then the NFLPA would have adequate access to prepare for an arbitration that is supposed to be an impartial review. Kangaroo court is not a strong enough term for this debacle the NFL has brought on themselves.

Ross12 · Aug 8, 2015

“They claim that Brady was never given notice that he could be disciplined for just being generally aware that someone else did something wrong. But that misstates the facts. That’s not what the commissioner found. The commissioner didn’t discipline him because he was generally aware. He concluded after listening to Mr. Brady and assessing his credibility that he was involved, not just that he was generally aware."

Uh, what? He wasn't disciplined for doing it, he was disciplined for being generally aware of something that may or may not have happened... And how the hell did Goodell even arrive at this conclusion? The transcript basically reads like:

Goodell: So Brady, were you aware of this stuff going on?
Brady: I testify under oath that nothing went on, so no, I wasn't.
Goodell: So you did it, then?
Brady: No.
Goodell: That's a no?
Brady: No.
Goodell: No?
Brady: No.
Goodell: No?
Brady: For god's sake. Can I see your investigative files, also?
Goodell: Sorry, attorney client privilege.
Brady: Wtf? I thought this was independent. Can I cross examine that guy?
Goodell: No.
Brady: What? What about that guy?
Goodell: No.
Brady: Why the hell not?
Goodell: Don't wanna.
Brady: That doesn't make sense.
Goodell: It's in the CBA.
Brady: "I don't wanna" is in the CBA?
Goodell: It's in the CBA.
Brady: Uhhh, okay. Have a great day then, Roger.
Goodell: Thank you for your time, Tom. I really appreciate it.
------
Goodell: Now I know he definitely did it. I'm convinced!

GrogansArmy · Aug 8, 2015

Ivan said:
The league would be quiet if they believe they were on solid ground, the fact that they are ignoring Berman's order and shapeshifting their arguments make clear they are scared sh.tless and trying to get out on front of something they no longer have control over. Brady's side is quiet as can be and the league is in panic mode. Sweet.

Not exactly true. Unfortunately Brady's side decided to comment and respond according to the article:

“Nobody can dispute they ignored science and made this whole thing up as they went along,” NFLPA assistant executive director of external affairs George Atallah said Friday. “Our legal briefs and exhibits speak for themselves. Anything else they say is just rhetoric.”

pherein · Aug 8, 2015

Its a stupid response by a lawyer, but Im not sure it makes a difference. RG is ****y with his power because he knows the CBA, where he and his hitmen have ultimate power. I hate whats happening to Brady, but he has a slim chance at best to beat him, and I think RG is actually enjoying this.
NFLPA, Courts, or the owners have to tell RG that Brady will play or he wont, and RG doesnt care what anyone thinks.
... even if the court sides with Brady , RG could easily ban Brady from the last 4 games on some other fictitious charge, and probably will. I never understood RG until he wasted us. I see him clearly now. RG needs to be fired and investigated.

"What I would like to see is a level of accountability on the part of the NFL and Commissioner Goodell in regards to mishandling of this entire situation," Brees said. "We as players hold ourselves and are held to a very strict code of conduct both on and off the field. We have to be accountable to that, as it should be, and I feel like they should be held to the same standards.

"If someone would just come out in the league office and admit, `You know what? We could have handled this situation better,' it would go such a long way with both players and fans. People would really come around to realize what this thing was all about because right now the league office and Commissioner Goodell have very little to no credibility with us as players."

Goodell rejected Brees' plea to acknowledge that he mishandled the investigation.

He and the NFL dont care what the players think, you really think RG cares what you think might happen. He knows the fans wont do anything because we are separated by our teams.

JMC00 · Aug 8, 2015

GrogansArmy said:
Not exactly true. Unfortunately Brady's side decided to comment and respond according to the article:

Except the nflpa didn't come out and basically say there will be no settlement just days before there is to be a settlement conference with Berman.

GrogansArmy · Aug 8, 2015

JMC00 said:
Except the nflpa didn't come out and basically say there will be no settlement just days before there is to be a settlement conference with Berman.

If the judge is a hardass, he could just say both sides disregarded his order and continued to yap away. Perhaps its just me, but if a judge tells me not to talk about the case and to stop the rhetoric, I just say answer any questions with 'no comment due to ongoing litigation'.

RobertWeathers · Aug 8, 2015

JMC00 said:
Except the nflpa didn't come out and basically say there will be no settlement just days before there is to be a settlement conference with Berman.

Yep. We haven't heard a peep from Dee Smith, Kessler or TB.

Instead we hear Goody and Nash flapping their gums and yammering on about integrity and the CBA.

They've walked away from the table.

I don't think Bermen told them that hat they've lost....yet. Doesn't seem like "save face" rhetoric.

JMC00 · Aug 8, 2015

GrogansArmy said:
If the judge is a hardass, he could just say both sides disregarded his order and continued to yap away. Perhaps its just me, but if a judge tells me not to talk about the case and to stop the rhetoric, I just say answer any questions with 'no comment due to ongoing litigation'.

All the nflpa came out and said was their briefs and arguments speak for themselves. While you got goodell saying he won't settle and the nfl attorney doing an in depth interview with USA today.

NJPatsfan26 · Aug 8, 2015

JMC00 said:
All the nflpa came out and said was their briefs and arguments speak for themselves. While you got goodell saying he won't settle and the nfl attorney doing an in depth interview with USA today.

but that is typical with the NFL* thus far with this whole farse.

loud arguments and statements with no recourse.

BradyFTW! · Aug 8, 2015

So, how's that "toning down the rhetoric" going? Wonder how Judge Berman is going to view the NFL going on the public offensive after his warning.

Joker · Aug 8, 2015

Berman will rule that Rude-ger is allowed to bellow like a ******ed, red haired wild boar to protect himself and his 10 million dollar summer home in Maine...from all these cheating, untrustworthy, lying, devious New England taxpaying residents. Godger Perfectdell will be adored and obeyed by ALL AMERICANS....Doucheland Uber Alles!!!!

BradyFTW! · Aug 8, 2015

JMC00 said:
All the nflpa came out and said was their briefs and arguments speak for themselves. While you got goodell saying he won't settle and the nfl attorney doing an in depth interview with USA today.

I would prefer that the NFLPA hadn't said anything at all just to make the contrast clear. But yeah, any attempt at equivalence here would be a mistake.

sarge · Aug 8, 2015

While I would like to think Justice would prevail, I just think from a legal standpoint Brady will get hosed. I hate to admit it, but reality has played no part in frame gate. Doubt it starts now.

I just for the life of me can't see how with the science proving the Pats balls where well within the expected range this farce has been allowed to happen.

Every time I hear Roger Goodell say the word integrity I throw up in my mouth. What a low life human being he is.

With no evidence of wrongdoing, and plenty of evidence there was no wrong doing, he is trying to take down one of the best players to ever put on a uniform for some personal agenda.

patfanken · Aug 8, 2015

I'm sorry it's too late for me to read all 3 pages of this thread (and I'm sure there will be some great posts that I will be missing, but raising my blood pressure 20 points isn't how I want to end my evening.

THIS is why I feel the judge will have NO option to vacate the suspension, and Brady will have no choice but to refuse any settlement.

The NFL's case rests on THEIR interpretation that Brady "more than likely" participated in a scheme with Patriot employees to deflate footballs and gain an unfair competitive advantage. That argument fails on so many levels that the only reason the Judge won't make a summary judgement will be because the drama of waiting is just to intoxicating to no wait til the 19th. (my birthday, btw

)

1. They can't make a reasonable case that footballs were even deflated - Definitely not when main stream science is sued, and EVEN when their own flawed, bought and paid for science was used they couldn't prove that balls were deflated, BTW -they can't even make the case that any competitive advantage was even gained

2. They can't make a case that Brady wasn't anything but cooperative

3. They can't make a case that Jastremski or McNally did anything wrong in the 90 seconds they were alone with the balls.

4. But what CAN be proved is that the NFL embarked on a campaign of malicious deception, misinformation, and outright lies in an clear attempt to infect the public with this misinformation and poison the arena with a smear campaign

Now I know the blood pressure is rising, and I'm being melodramatic and touch hyperbolic with my 4 points. However that being said, I welcome any comment or criticism that can poke holes in the basic premise I am trying to make.

Even if the judge is judge is willing to construe this case very narrowly, and not take on the issue of, "whether anything happened" or "the science of deflation"; there is still documented evidence of the basic unfairness of the NFL's actions, their continued effort to "move the goalposts" as each of their claims are reputed, and finally there is the undeniable fact that NOTHING in the CBA, NFL rulebook, or procedural history comes even close to the draconian punishment that was handed down.

GrogansArmy · Aug 8, 2015

patfanken said:
I'm sorry it's too late for me to read all 3 pages of this thread (and I'm sure there will be some great posts that I will be missing, but raising my blood pressure 20 points isn't how I want to end my evening.

THIS is why I feel the judge will have NO option to vacate the suspension, and Brady will have no choice but to refuse any settlement.

The NFL's case rests on THEIR interpretation that Brady "more than likely" participated in a scheme with Patriot employees to deflate footballs and gain an unfair competitive advantage. That argument fails on so many levels that the only reason the Judge won't make a summary judgement will be because the drama of waiting is just to intoxicating to no wait til the 19th. (my birthday, btw )

1. They can't make a reasonable case that footballs were even deflated - Definitely not when main stream science is sued, and EVEN when their own flawed, bought and paid for science was used they couldn't prove that balls were deflated, BTW -they can't even make the case that any competitive advantage was even gained

2. They can't make a case that Brady wasn't anything but cooperative

3. They can't make a case that Jastremski or McNally did anything wrong in the 90 seconds they were alone with the balls.

4. But what CAN be proved is that the NFL embarked on a campaign of malicious deception, misinformation, and outright lies in an clear attempt to infect the public with this misinformation and poison the arena with a smear campaign

Now I know the blood pressure is rising, and I'm being melodramatic and touch hyperbolic with my 4 points. However that being said, I welcome any comment or criticism that can poke holes in the basic premise I am trying to make.

Even if the judge is judge is willing to construe this case very narrowly, and not take on the issue of, "whether anything happened" or "the science of deflation"; there is still documented evidence of the basic unfairness of the NFL's actions, their continued effort to "move the goalposts" as each of their claims are reputed, and finally there is the undeniable fact that NOTHING in the CBA, NFL rulebook, or procedural history comes even close to the draconian punishment that was handed down.

If a Judge wants to go by the letter of the law, the NFLPA has no case as they agreed to everything in the CBA and the CBA pretty much lets Goodell do whatever he wants. Not trying to be a downer or anything, but we don't really know anything about this judge aside from he wants all records unsealed and for both sides to stop talking in public about the case.

VectorPrime · Aug 8, 2015

Thats crap, Kesler has specifically outlined multiple areas in which Goodell and the league violated the CBA.

PatsFanSince74 · Aug 8, 2015

ANGR89 said:
I won't lie, reading some of this stuff worries me I know I've watched way to many movies but man with everything that's happened let's just hope goddell don't already have the judge on his side. Goddell just seems to confident. I so hope that smile gets wiped off his face.

There is a smugness to the NFL's comments that suggest they are confident as to how this will turn out. I hope that I am wrong in that interpretation.

If Berman has in any way signaled that he feels the (absurdly drawn) CBA gives Goodell an "out," no matter how unfair that might be, then this is how I would be acting if I were Goodell. We have to remember that Judge Berman is not being asked to take a view on whether what Goodell has done is "fair," but rather on whether it is permitted by the terms of the CBA. What he's being asked to determine is actually pretty narrowly defined.

The good news is that he's suggested that the sides should "settle," which implies that he thinks there is something to settle. The bad news is that he can bring the hammer down on one side or the other.

My personal view is that Kessler has mounted a strong argument that Goodell has stepped outside the bounds of the CBA, but the fact that the League doesn't feel it needs to offer to settle at this point is worrisome...or it is a bluff.

Goodell has either read Berman correctly or he has decided to go down with the ship.

Patsfanin Philly · Aug 8, 2015

GrogansArmy said:
If a Judge wants to go by the letter of the law, the NFLPA has no case as they agreed to everything in the CBA and the CBA pretty much lets Goodell do whatever he wants. Not trying to be a downer or anything, but we don't really know anything about this judge aside from he wants everything public and for both sides to stop talking in public about the case.

Not so, there is an implied expectation of fairness and honesty in any dealings. If the player can show a manifest injustice he can ask that the punishment be set aside despite what the CBA says...

Joker · Aug 8, 2015

every day I read the same thing "it could go their way...NFLPA signed the contract...ironclad!!! Oh no!!"..

what the hell is the matter with all you people??? THIS IS NOT THE SOVIET UNION. I do not care what this damnable corrupt league office says about anything. Eventually they hang, foisted on their own petard..

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

I hope Brady sues this idiot Goodell and his criminal conspirators for a billion plus dollars. See how that moronic little narcissist likes seeing HIS life flashing before his eyes.

NFL attorney says NFLPA's move to vacate Brady's Deflategate suspension is 'baseless'

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