NFL admits the "independent" Wells Investigation wasn't.. Well... Independent

grux said:

By making some of these statements I am beginning to wonder if the NFL is o.k. with losing the case in court. Goody can spin it to the owners that he did everything possible to suspend Brady but it didn't hold up in court or the NFL thinks they are a dictatorship and don't have to be held accountable.

Click to expand...

he can try to "spin it" but that attempt is hurt by the release of the transcript where his incompetence is on display.

Rob0729 said:

I don't buy that argument. I know people make it all the time. Goodell doesn't care about losing in court because he can sell it to the owners that he stood by the tough punishment and the courts just overturned him.

Do people really think the owners are going to ignore that he has destroyed what was left of his credibility and made a mockery of himself and his staff in the process?

Click to expand...

I disagree. I think if goodell loses this case he may be done as commish

I'm worried that the end result is one in which the Judge is verbally critical of the NFL but ultimately sides in their favor b/c the Union agreed to this process and his hands are tied, so to speak. Obviously there appears to be issues where it it could (and should) go our way but a total victory seems almost too good to be true.

billdog3484 said:

I disagree. I think if goodell loses this case he may be done as commish

Click to expand...

Although I don't think he is done as a commissioner. I was making the argument that Goodell losing in court is a very bad thing for him especially since since it went to court the public sentiment is turning against him (even if it isn't siding with Brady). The League has looked bad since it went to court. If the Judge forces him to give up the Wells investigation documents or he claims privilege, he is likely to get killed even more. A loss in court will just turn more people against him.

Wow, if they get away with this (and I think they might), they're a POS. So now their play is that they aren't required to have an independent investigation. They're basically saying "we have the right to do what we want under the CBA so arguing the process of violates the CBA, is irrelevant". That's some serious ethical behavior (lol). Way to uphold the integrity of the shield.

Rob0729 said:

Apparently in their 15 page argument, the NFL is getting ready to fight the Judge for turning over the notes, transcripts, etc. from the Wells investigation and any communications between Wells and Pash about the writing of the report by claiming the Wells investigation wasn't independent and nor does it require to be in Article 46.

I think this is a huge PR mistake because they sold this as an independent investigation. According to Michael McCann it could be the reason they lose the case too.



https://twitter.com/adbrandt/status/629817472363982848



https://twitter.com/McCannSportsLaw/status/629820584323588096

https://twitter.com/McCannSportsLaw/status/629821378129195008

Click to expand...

You gotta wonder what is in those notes for the nfl to essentially throw the Wells report out the window.

billdog3484 said:

Here's the thing. Nflpa is attacking the appeal process as unfair, part of reason being nfl said there was an investigation that was independent. Nfl is just saying even if it wasn't independent it doesn't matter. The nflpa agreed that an independent investigation isn't necessary. We abided by the agreement. Therefore the appeal decision is not unfair.

So basically the nfl is saying even if the investigation was not independent we didn't violate anything

Click to expand...

That may have flown if they had not indicated that it was independent to Brady.

Rob0729 said:

I don't buy that argument. I know people make it all the time. Goodell doesn't care about losing in court because he can sell it to the owners that he stood by the tough punishment and the courts just overturned him.

Do people really think the owners are going to ignore that he has destroyed what was left of his credibility and made a mockery of himself and his staff in the process?

Click to expand...

How's that precious shield looking right now? Not so shiny.

PatsWSB47 said:

Florio will have something on this soon

Click to expand...

You think he reads this board to get ideas? #Crowdsourcing

This is great -- either Wells is independent and all his notes and communications to NFL should be released.
Or he's not independent and the suspension should be vacated because this is another blatant lie by the NFL in what is now a series of lies -- and Brady should then sue them for defamation.

Throughout all of this, this is how the NFL operated. Doing nothing illegal, but completely lying about it. And no one ever called them on it. Lying is not illegal (at least i think it is not, unless under oath, IANAL.) This is why the NFL wants everything sealed.

I'm worried that the end result is one in which the Judge is verbally critical of the NFL but ultimately sides in their favor b/c the Union agreed to this process and his hands are tied, so to speak. Obviously there appears to be issues where it it could (and should) go our way but a total victory seems almost too good to be true.

Click to expand...

Could happen, but I doubt it. I don't have the exact CBA but there is likely enough in there for Kessler to work with.. Goodell strikes me as a guy who thinks he knows the law but does not. He believes the CBA will protect his decisions but it has not been..

I dunno if he is reading it wrong or its just limited because its illegal (contract law has its limits - if its terms violate other laws - they won't be enforced)..

Win or lose though - I think the courts have been good for the Brady camp. The narrative has changed from Brady's cheating to Goodell's corruption. All those pundits and some fans who thought Brady was finished and court couldn't help him - and that he should just accept his fate were all wet..

Heres the thing i think matters.. The nfl cant have it both ways. It cant tell brady we are having a fair an independent investigation and if you dont cooperate we are going to penalize you.. Then say oh the investigation is not independent in fact it can say anything we want it to say and if you dont cooperate we are going to penalize you. This defies all common sense and i bet it will become a sticking point with the judge

billdog3484 said:

Here's the thing. Nflpa is attacking the appeal process as unfair, part of reason being nfl said there was an investigation that was independent. Nfl is just saying even if it wasn't independent it doesn't matter. The nflpa agreed that an independent investigation isn't necessary. We abided by the agreement. Therefore the appeal decision is not unfair.

So basically the nfl is saying even if the investigation was not independent we didn't violate anything

Click to expand...

Essentially this. Yes they lied and they can say they lied to who ? The stupid public in their press conferences. Is it enough for the judge to hold it against them, ? Maybe they want think the judge at worst will now claim that without an independent investigation goodell cant be arbitraor so it will get thrown to another independent arbitrator or that maybe their settlement terms.
Now the estoppage stuff which kessler put was a card the PA held close so dont know how that impacts the case.

BigPeteG said:

Could happen, but I doubt it. I don't have the exact CBA but there is likely enough in there for Kessler to work with.. Goodell strikes me as a guy who thinks he knows the law but does not. He believes the CBA will protect his decisions but it has not been..

I dunno if he is reading it wrong or its just limited because its illegal (contract law has its limits - if its terms violate other laws - they won't be enforced)..

Win or lose though - I think the courts have been good for the Brady camp. The narrative has changed from Brady's cheating to Goodell's corruption. All those pundits and some fans who thought Brady was finished and court couldn't help him - and that he should just accept his fate were all wet..

Click to expand...

Dont think Goodell is even reaading of this . Its the "indepenent investigators" Pash and Paul Weiss and co right now writing all this up.

The width and breath of their ineptness is something to be marveled at. In the process of trying to reestablish credibility from a previous debacle(ray rice) they've managed to one-up it looking like complete buffoons once again.

PYPER said:

I'm worried that the end result is one in which the Judge is verbally critical of the NFL but ultimately sides in their favor b/c the Union agreed to this process and his hands are tied, so to speak. Obviously there appears to be issues where it it could (and should) go our way but a total victory seems almost too good to be true.

Click to expand...

I'm worried about that too.

Something like that happened in the Vilma defamation lawsuit against Goodell. The judge was very critical of Goodell's and the League's actions but ultimately decided to dismiss the case because the CBA says Goodell cannot be personally sued for actions he engages in as Commissioner.

PYPER said:

I'm worried that the end result is one in which the Judge is verbally critical of the NFL but ultimately sides in their favor b/c the Union agreed to this process and his hands are tied, so to speak. Obviously there appears to be issues where it it could (and should) go our way but a total victory seems almost too good to be true.

Click to expand...

The worst possible thing that could happen for NFL PR is Berman saying something on the lines of "I believe that Brady has been railroaded, but I must nevertheless let the suspension stand."

As I mentioned on the motions thread, there's a doctrine called promissory estoppel. Berman could easily rule that because Goodell and Wells went out of their way to stress to anyone and everyone (not merely Brady) on multiple occasions that this would be an independent investigation—even though the NFL is correct that Article 46 does not require independent investigations—the NFL cannot use the lack of such provisions as a defense here.

Froob said:

How could this possibly be upheld?

Click to expand...

My gut feeling agrees with you, however, the law isn't about fairness or what's 'simply right'. The law is a bunch of paragraphs of specifications (or the lack of paragraphs). The judge could say ' RG can arbitrarily decide guilt and punishment under Article 46. That is what the NFLPA agreed to...case dismissed'. I don't expect (or hope) it will not happen but it could. Yet it has a tangible chance of happening regardless of how unseemly and dishonest RG has acted.

At this point my disgust will begin to point more and more to the NFL owners (and I hope the sucky media gets on this reality too). The NFL owners enable Roger Goodell, a man who is a confirmed liar and is motivated by the ugliest 'the ends justifies the means'. There is no arguing or denying this fact. Whether Brady wanted a football deflated is no longer an issue connected to this (it is a separate issue altogether). Roger Goodell is a calculated liar. When he wants a result such as harming someone's reputation/livelihood, he will get up on a podium, speak into the microphone and he spread calculated lies in order to hurt someone. He got up in front of hundreds of thousands if not millions of people to tell them 'we decided person X is a cheater and cannot work in my league for one month because Ted Wells, who is a fair and completely independent man, says Brady is a cheater' (and again saying it to hundreds of thousands/millions of people). We know this was a planned and calculated lie, there is no gray area on it. Clearly nothing is more important than getting his way/whatever result he wants no matter the cost or the lies. Again, this description of Goodell is not patriot homer glasses, this is fact. It isn't open for interpretation any longer, there isn't any gray area. And all of the owners absolutely know that the public knows how Roger Goodell operates.
The leader of the globe's premier sports league, the NFL, has demonstrated an ugly level of ethics/how he operates. His behavior would probably cross criminal lines if not for the CBA. So if the NFL owners allow this to go unpunished then they are just as responsible and just as lacking in decency as Goodell. And any damage to their league will be richly deserved for not doing anything about it, for not making a statement about what the league stands for.
((I don't expect the owners to do anything right now. It would be bad business to punish Roger Goodell in mid litigation. But when it is over they better make a statement through their actions that says their league will not operate without an acceptable level of ethics))