The "Brady did a little bit wrong" crowd

Tony2046 said:

But if Walt did use the gauge he thought he used then the Colts footballs would have been turned in under pressure of 13.0 as well. If we are going to believe Walt's recollection then we have to believe that the Colts footballs measured 13.0

Please do not misunderstand me. I am fully in Brady's camp and he should be complete exonerated and the Patriots should get all there picks back. That is what should happen.

We talk about the phone being a red herring but the Science or an aspect of the science in this case has been a red herring as well.

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But you are wrong about the Colt's balls measuring 13 on that gauge. They measured from 12.5 to 12.75 on that gauge. What aspect of the science is a red herring?

Fencer said:

Reread my post, if you care, and figure out what "In that theory" actually referred to.
Or just accept that you misread it and move on, which is what I'd actually recommend.

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I didn't misread anything
I said "so you believe tom Brady consistently lied" you said "yes"
Then you explained you consider bb a liar too.
You said nothing about "theory" you said "yes" Brady has consistently lied.
If you regret that change your answer. Don't be a douche and pretend you didn't say it or blame my reading ability. It's right there in the thread.

Fencer said:

I tend to agree. The "If anything went on Brady must have known" argument is only persuasive if it was something organized, substantial, and well thought-out. Minor rogue operations could easily have happened without him knowing -- if they happened at all. (The evidence suggests they didn't happen at all, but in honesty they don't prove it. E.g., "If McNally tried to deflate balls in the bathroom, he sure did a lousy job of it", which is indeed proven by the evidence, doesn't quite go on to prove "He definitely didn't even try".)

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Here is the big joke behind the scenes Fencer. This discussion is all part of an endless circle of facts. The reality is that this entire scandal started with a competitive advantage mantra. 2 psi. Sharps analysis. Wells report ..on and on. You cannot conclusively argue one way or another if air was intentionally released from those footballs. It cannot be done. Both the Well's report and AEI conclude with "more probable" type statements.

BUT the RED HERRING is the science. They have used science, not sure if it was intentionally or not, to mask what the real issue was to begin with and that was whether Tom Brady wanted deflated balls for a competitive advantage. He did not. That can be and is proven.

There is a reason why Wells did not state how much air he thought was released from those footballs. Because even though you cannot determine conclusively what the actual pressure was in those balls you can conclusively state what the worst case scenario would have been and that was miniscule amount of air which would not have contributed to any competitive advantage.

Fencer said:

It wouldn't surprise me. People lie about their recollection under oath all the time. BB, Brady, and every other Pat lie at the press conference podium repeatedly.

"I don't remember"/"I don't know"/"I've never thought about that" are, at a guess, lies more often than not, or at least evasions.

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Again you are saying that tom Brady under oath at the appeal hearing lied.

I disagree and sadly you are trashing Brady with zero proof.

TommyBrady12 said:

look, if i am mcnally and tom came down hard on me after the jets game, I am double checking every ball after the refs pump air into them for every game. that's just me though.

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Or he could just pay attention to the refs as the test the footballs. And Brady did not come down hard on McNally. He came down hard on Jastremski.

AndyJohnson said:

You cannot gauge 12 balls in a bathroom in 100 seconds

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Andy, and I say playing the devil's advocate, they proved it. They had a guy do it.

I know it is not likely.

Fencer said:

Not necessarily truthfully.

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Prove that
You are walking on dangerous ground here.
There is not a single piece of evidence that anything said was not true.
For some reason you insist on support this witch hunt and now it's based upon "maybe someone lied"
You are embarrassing yourself.

NashuaPats said:

Or he could just pay attention to the refs as the test the footballs. And Brady did not come down hard on McNally. He came down hard on Jastremski.

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yeah i didn 't realize mcnally was right there when anderson was putting air into the balls. if so he did nothing wrong.

Tony2046 said:

Andy, and I say playing the devil's advocate, they proved it. They had a guy do it.

I know it is not likely.

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No they did not.
They had a guy stick a needle in 12 balls. Not gauge them and check pressure.

robertweathers said:

....just as is there is no evidence that McNally and Jaz did anything wrong. Even the officials allowed him to move the balls from room to room...like he as always done.

With all this "wordsmithing" that's come out about Pash, I'm betting he did some deleting from the Wells Report which talks about what the WRC is referring to.

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Well, technically McNally did not follow the rule book because he took the balls to the field, when it should have been a ref.

Fencer said:

One reason for the school of thought that I'm citing here is that Brady was indeed more evasive than he needed to be at some points in his testimony.

Now, from BB down, the Patriots aren't exactly forthcoming, so I don't necessarily take this as a sign of guilt. And I know in other areas of life people are always spinning too, including politics and the public-facing side of business/marketing. But again -- I don't necessarily vomit in reaction to those who get the feeling Brady actually has a little something to hide.

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The press-conference was part of the NFL's ongoing spear strategy. They put out wildly false leaks that every single POS media outlet picked up and repeated, often adding their own spin on "the cheating Pats". By the time the press-conference happened TB was getting peppered with inane questions that were based on lies. How else should he have reacted? Should he have called the NFL officials liars? Should he have called all the journalists liars? I don't think there is anything he could have said that day that would have changed the agenda of the media or the frothing of the masses.

NashuaPats said:

But you are wrong about the Colt's balls measuring 13 on that gauge. They measured from 12.5 to 12.75 on that gauge. What aspect of the science is a red herring?

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You are confusing pregame measurements with halftime measurements. Pregame measurements of the Colts footballs were 13.0 psi according to Walt's recollection.

The red herring is that there is no possible way to conclusively know what the actual pressure of the Patriots footballs were. Too many variables. BUT you can conclusively say that Brady was not searching for a competitive advantage. You can say he did not want those footballs below 12.5. You can say he wanted to play every game fairly. That is absolutely conclusive.

We can argue the Science in this case and fight to find the missing 0.3 psi (according to the Wells report) all day long. But the bottom line is that it doesn't matter because the NFL originally thought via ignorance of the IGL that the footballs were substantially deflated to the tune of 1.8 or 2 psi which was not the case. They have since created this scandalous cover up to save face.

Nunchucks said:

Well, technically McNally did not follow the rule book because he took the balls to the field, when it should have been a ref.

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Agreed...by the letter of the law.

The question is why did several NFL officials allow him to pass by?

AndyJohnson said:

No they did not.
They had a guy stick a needle in 12 balls. Not gauge them and check pressure.

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You're right Andy.

Do you agree that there isn't anyone who can say conclusively that no air was missing from those footballs without making assumptions? No you cannot.

But can you can you conclusively say that Tom Brady was not looking for a competitive advantage and wanted to play each game within the rules with footballs within the regulation pressure? Yes you can.

BobDigital said:

Here is my honest thoughts.

I think Brady and the Patriots probably (over 50%) did a little something. I think after the Jets game they decided they can't leave the balls up to the officials anymore and would need to take matters into their own hands a little.

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That's crazy. Doesn't anyone realize that football players (at least Brady and Garappolo) can not reliably tell the difference of 1 PSI of pressure in a football much less .21 PSI? Enough of these silly theories to change something that MAKES NO DISCERNABLE DIFFERENCE TO ANYTHING.

As the Music Man said, "Think, men. Think!

TruthSeeker said:

That's crazy. Doesn't anyone realize that football players (at least Brady and Garappolo) can not reliably tell the difference of 1 PSI of pressure in a football much less .21 PSI? Enough of these silly theories to change something that MAKES NO DISCERNABLE DIFFERENCE TO ANYTHING.

As the Music Man said, "Think, men. Think!

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Let me preface this by saying that I am sure Brady did not cheat.

Brady did complain about the footballs being hard as a rock after the Jets game. Therefor a theory of McNalley, with or without Brady's consent, going into the bathroom to check them is not a silly theory.

There are so many ridiculous rumors and twists that it's impossible to keep track of them all for non-fans. Even positive articles still keep framing each story as if the Patriots were acting suspicious. They should start leading off like this:

"The Colts started a witch hunt by measuring theirs and Patriots footballs during the game and the NFL assumed the Patriots must be guilty. Tom Brady did not want to share his personal phone knowing there was no evidence to defend against and at most a $50,000 fine in return for keeping his personal life private. The Patriots were not allowed to defend themselves as incredible rumors were repeated all over the media, and the NFL refused to correct them. The NFL then went to court, hoping to keep the transcripts sealed, but by this point the Patriots and Brady wanted to release everything to the public record, even their personal communications, because of how ridiculous the NFL got."

robertweathers said:

Agreed...by the letter of the law.

The question is why did several NFL officials allow him to pass by?

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Did you seriously just ask me to explain a moment of NFL incompetence?

TruthSeeker said:

That's crazy. Doesn't anyone realize that football players (at least Brady and Garappolo) can not reliably tell the difference of 1 PSI of pressure in a football much less .21 PSI? Enough of these silly theories to change something that MAKES NO DISCERNABLE DIFFERENCE TO ANYTHING.

As the Music Man said, "Think, men. Think!

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Good point.

However, when McNally tries to think, what do you suppose the result is?

Fencer said:

Did you seriously just ask me to explain a moment of NFL incompetence?

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I'm not asking you to explain the explainable.