10 thoughts about the first 4 days of camp

I have like many of you read reports on on each day of camp. Here is my overall view of how i feel things are going so far

#1 Dobson - Usually I would not lead off with a WR but this 2nd round pick looks like me might be able to live up to his early promise afterall. The issue is a he will have an uphill fight to see snaps. Lafell proved himself last year. Edelman is a beast. Amendola is looking healthy and coming off the playoffs deserves the #3 spot. I think Dobson will get some chances but this is looking fairly crowded.

#2 Scott Chandler - Last year the playoffs a lot of things contributed to the Patriots winning SB. The most important one though IMO is they were amazing in the red zone and converted so often. They went something like 13 for 15 overall. I think Chandler will make them even harder to stop. He is quickly becoming a favorite option of Brady particularly in the red zone. If this team is going to win again they will need to cash in on their chances. I think they can

#3 Mason/Jackson - These guys are about where I thought they would be. They look like they are ready to step right in when it comes to run plays but need work when it comes to pass protection. Mason out of his natural position could take some extra time. In the end if you can't protect Brady they can't put you on the field. I am curious to see how they develop. I think Jackson will be okay but Mason might have to sit early. Lots of time left though.

#4 3rd down back - A lot of positives out of camp but I have heard very little about the 3rd down back competition. No one is really sticking out though Cadet/Lewis seem to be in a slight lead. This will be one of the more interesting competitions. However frankly I really question if we have "the guy" here. Maybe bring in a body here.

#5 Stork - Not a lot is said of OL men but the little written about Stork is highly encouraging. Not only does he seem fully recovered but the word dominate is being thrown around. If he made the 2nd year jump I think he might have he is going to go a long way towards helping our young guards. It is really early but I think Stork is going to be going to probowls very soon.

#6 DT - Brown is going to be a good player. I don't know if he will be great but i am confident he will be good. He has been consistent in camp and i don't think i have seen a tweet of him losing a 1v1. Stronger than his 320 lbs. Easley has the quickness still but is inconsistent. I think rust is the most likely reason. He will need to improve as camp goes on but the talent is there. Siliga is the clear #3 and it is not close. Branch/Jones** are off to a slow start/injured and leaving the door open for Johnson or Moore. I don't know if it will last but if this keeps up we could see a shake up here

#7 LB - First things first. Collins is going to be an all pro this year. He came on late his rookie year. Had a slow first half but monster 2nd half his 2nd year. This year front to back he is going to be a beast. Mayo looks pretty good considering as does Hightower. They look like they will be ready but are clearly taking it slow. I almost don't want to play nickle.

#8 Outside CB - I have heard Butler has been the best CB out there. I have heard Ryan has been the best CB out there. I will say I have read more reports of Butler on Edelman/Gronk so i think it is more accurate to say Butler is the #1 with Ryan the current #2. Brown in very limited action looked good and will be a guy to keep an eye on for the rest of camp as he is IMO the best FA CB we sign (sorry McCain and Fletcher). Roberts who had a lot of hype for a while has faded a bit but still is in the pack of contenders. After him no one else has a shot to make this team is the early indication.

#9 Nickle CB - The most interesting story line not getting talked about is McClain not making a mark. He was brought here to be the nickel (star position) but has not stood out but it seems he did have a good day yesterday. If he seems to not work it will shake up things. Will they move Ryan there even if he clearly wins the #2 or #1 spot? If they don't who plays there? I don't think Fletcher or Roberts have experience there. It would be a very interesting storyline and is something the Patriots are no doubt looking at as I don't think they like the back up plans they have if McCain isn't a good option.

#10 Jordan Richards - S - He had his worst day yesterday but was still competitive. This guy might be what they hoped Harmon or Wilson would be. This might be the reach that works out. His speed seems to not be as bad as wa indicated but i don't think we will see him in press on DeSean Jackson any time soon. However he has arguably been the best rookie thus far in camp. What is clear is he is a keeper and one of Wilson/Ebner is probably going out. Going forward it will be interesting to see if Richards can steal a starting spot and how it will effect Chung's snaps who the team made a point to sign a 3 year deal with last year (not for big money but not for nothing).

Good write up. If it were me, I'd keep as many CBs as possible and go with 4 safeties. So both Wilson and Ebner may be out. One injury may change things. Or if Roberts looks like he might not be ready for prime time, I find a way to stash him on IR.

I need as many CBs as possible. Unless Fletcher and McClain are awful, I keep them, despite having Butler, Ryan and Brown.

upstater1 said:

Good write up. If it were me, I'd keep as many CBs as possible and go with 4 safeties. So both Wilson and Ebner may be out. One injury may change things. Or if Roberts looks like he might not be ready for prime time, I find a way to stash him on IR.

I need as many CBs as possible. Unless Fletcher and McClain are awful, I keep them, despite having Butler, Ryan and Brown.

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I'm the opposite. I keep the best DBs, irrespective of job title.

upstater1 said:

One injury may change things. Or if Roberts looks like he might not be ready for prime time, I find a way to stash him on IR.

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Yeah, these things tend to take care of themselves. Last summer was the emergence of such popular thoughts as"Logan Ryan is definitely going to be moved to safety," and "the CB5 will never see enough snaps to justify his position." Yawn. We go through this every TC.

As you mentioned, someone will likely be injured, and/or a guy like Roberts (7th round pick) can possibly end up on the practice squad. Only time will tell. At the moment, everyone is pretty much equal aside from Butler and Ryan. Let McClain, Fletcher, Brown, and Roberts battle it out to see which one is cut. Someone will rise, someone will fall, and someone will likely be dinged up.

Fencer said:

I'm the opposite. I keep the best DBs, irrespective of job title.

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That's another way to go, and Belichick may agree with you. I'd venture to think that it's a possibility, particularly when precious ST spots are involved.

Either way, I think we keep 10--not including Slater.

I've read many reports so far that say siliga looks like he's #1 right now among DTs and Brown is the first one off the bench. So I'm confused a bit by your observation. Obviously I'm not there to evaluate.

BobDigital said:

DT - Brown is going to be a good player. I don't know if he will be great but i am confident he will be good. He has been consistent in camp and i don't think i have seen a tweet of him losing a 1v1. Stronger than his 320 lbs. Easley has the quickness still but is inconsistent. I think rust is the most likely reason. He will need to improve as camp goes on but the talent is there. Siliga is the clear #3 and it is not close. Branch/Johnson are off to a slow start/injured and leaving the door open for Johnson or Moore. I don't know if it will last but if this keeps up we could see a shake up here

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nabwong said:

I've read many reports so far that say siliga looks like he's #1 right now among DTs and Brown is the first one off the bench. So I'm confused a bit by your observation. Obviously I'm not there to evaluate.

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@AndyJohnson and I had this debate earlier in the offseason, with me taking the position that Siliga's playing time and "starter's status" may have been due to other factors, and should be taken with a "year to year" grain of salt dependent on other variables. I believe the main point of contention was whether or not Siliga should be labled as rotational or definitive starter.

Some of those variables were: 1) the (expected) selection of the 1st round draft pick at DT, 2) the fact that Easley was not only a rookie last year, but also hurt, and 3) whether or not Siliga would even be able to fully recover from his offseason surgery in time to start the year.

At this time, I would lean towards Andy's side that Siliga is looking like a clear cut starter, without care as to how Brown or Easley are progressing. One may even argue that they had enough confidence in him to help to make the decision regarding what they offered Wilfork. I'd have a difficult time seeing Siliga as the "clear #3," but different people have different opinions---particularly when TC is involved. Either way, we'll get a definitive answer very soon.

Nice summary of the first four days. As you mention it is very early so things will inevitably change but it is nice to see how things are trending early. My early concern is the 3rd down back since it seems nobody is standing out. Reiss had mentioned Cadet being the guy, but also cautioned that we still hadn't seen him in pass protection. That will be the key in who wins that spot.

Best DBs on the roster. Like Fencer stated.

I can live with this backfield IF (1) the front 7 are what se hope they are and (2) one safety (DM) and one CB (hoping for Butler) play consistently at an above-average level. I feel that if no corners are playing above average, that this will be a long and frustrating year of 3rd and 10 conversions that keep opposing offenses on the field...

BobDigital said:

#3 Mason/Jackson - These guys are about where I thought they would be. They look like they are ready to step right in when it comes to run plays but need work when it comes to pass protection. Mason out of his natural position could take some extra time. In the end if you can't protect Brady they can't put you on the field. I am curious to see how they develop. I think Jackson will be okay but Mason might have to sit early. Lots of time left though.

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I'm curious to see if it helps that Jackson and Stork played next to each other for several years at Florida State lessening the learning curve....

supafly said:

@AndyJohnson and I had this debate earlier in the offseason, with me taking the position that Siliga's playing time and "starter's status" may have been due to other factors, and should be taken with a "year to year" grain of salt dependent on other variables. I believe the main point of contention was whether or not Siliga should be labled as rotational or definitive starter.

Some of those variables were: 1) the (expected) selection of the 1st round draft pick at DT, 2) the fact that Easley was not only a rookie last year, but also hurt, and 3) whether or not Siliga would even be able to fully recover from his offseason surgery in time to start the year.

At this time, I would lean towards Andy's side that Siliga is looking like a clear cut starter, without care as to how Brown or Easley are progressing. One may even argue that they had enough confidence in him to help to make the decision regarding what they offered Wilfork. I'd have a difficult time seeing Siliga as the "clear #3," but different people have different opinions---particularly when TC is involved. Either way, we'll get a definitive answer very soon.

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Thanks for the mention.
My point then was that every time he has been healthy he has played the most or second most snaps, so he had established himself, but also that he played well.
I think Easley is not big enough to play 60 snaps a game in this D, but I could definitely see a 3 man virtually equal rotation, slanted for situation.

I see Easley playing almost exclusively as a rusher so I don't think he fits the run stopper/big body to clog up the middle like Siliga, so even though both are DT's I think Siliga is not fighting with Easley for a spot or vice versa.

I was expecting more from Alan Branch since last year he came from unemployment and drink issues and played well, with a full off season to get back 100% on track, it does not look like it's the case.

Excellent observations by all... I'm particularly heartened by Malcolm Butler's apparent emergence as a #1 CB.

Oh, and thank you, gentlemen, for a thread here that's actually about football.

Nothing to add other than I love this thread and that it is reminding me we have an awesome team full of intriguing new players and I can't wait for preseason so my Patriots thoughts can be dominated by the on the field ****.

I know there are some question marks about the secondary, But i feel REALLY good about the team we have going into the season.

Fencer said:

I'm the opposite. I keep the best DBs, irrespective of job title.

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The problem I have with that is Ebner, Harmon and Wilson can't play CB. I need 5 for that position. Have to have 5. At least.

upstater1 said:

The problem I have with that is Ebner, Harmon and Wilson can't play CB. I need 5 for that position. Have to have 5. At least.

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4 official CBs and McCourty, if it comes to that.

oldrover said:

Excellent observations by all... I'm particularly heartened by Malcolm Butler's apparent emergence as a #1 CB.

Oh, and thank you, gentlemen, for a thread here that's actually about football.

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#1 on the team*

He may be able to become a true #1 corner but probably more in the Leon Hall/Sean Smith/Jonathan Joseph type mold vs what's been depicted as the #1 in the media lately (where they should describe these guys as all-pro/world instead of simply #1's)