8/3 MMQB Peter King Firmly In Brady's Camp Against Goodell

shmessy said:

.....and now even Breer is coming around:


Albert Breer ✔ @AlbertBreer
One possible way for Judge Berman to middle Brady decision: Cite Vincent/Goodell dynamic, vacate penalty, order NFL to appnt new arbitrator.

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He is just quoting what he hears or maybe reads here on patsfans. He is all over the place too without anything useful. On dan patrick show he thinks nfl wants to settle but wants brady to admit guilt.
http://www.danpatrick.com/2015/08/03/albert-breer-explains-why-brady-nfl-havent-settled-yet/

SVN said:

......YHe was all over brady not directly but saying this is a battle he may lose etc etc. .....

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What does that sentence even mean?

How can you be "all over" someone, but "not directly"? While stating "this is a battle he may lose"?

Is that like being "a little pregnant"?

SVN said:

He is just quoting what he hears or maybe reads here on patsfans. He is all over the place too without anything useful. On dan patrick show he thinks nfl wants to settle but wants brady to admit guilt.
http://www.danpatrick.com/2015/08/03/albert-breer-explains-why-brady-nfl-havent-settled-yet/

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The NFL * NEEDS Brady to admit guilt to bail them out of the fiasco they created.

Brady cannot admit any guilt if he is innocent.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

I can see the judge privately saying:

"Mr. Goodell, you are not going to win this case with me. The facts just are not with you. So you can either compromise or lose completely in my decision. The choice is yours. The other side is adamant about no suspension, and you are adamant that there must be a suspension. I DO WANT a compromise and DO NOT desire any further arbitration.

The sensible compromise for your side to propose, and one that lets you out of your untenable position most gracefully, is for you to offer to delay the decision on all punishments on this issue until next February. If both sides are agreeable to such a compromise, the decision will be made here in my courtroom, by me or by a designated arbitrator of my choice, after reviewing actual data for measured ball pressures in cold weather games played during the 2015 season. You now have a procedure in place for doing this.

Mr. Goodell, such a compromise would have the undesired and admittedly unfair effect of lengthening the uncertainty, in some peoples minds, of Mr. Brady's guilt or innocence. Accordingly, Brady and the NFLPA may not accept that scenario without additional concessions on your part. What would be reasonable for them to additionally ask of you, when announcing any agreement for a delay in punishment is as follows: 1) an apology from you for making conclusions without sufficient evidence, and 2) an assertion that no data supports your previous ruling at this time.

You must also pledge to me that you will clean up your office by removing from their positions the unethical people who guided the expansion of this story from a molehill to a mountain through willfully leaking and also not correcting false information. Am I clear, Mr. Goodell?"

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From your mouth to god's ear...

borg said:

And another thing.....
"On page 113 of the Wells report, Wells says that the Patriots footballs would have been justified to have measured between 11.32 psi and 11.52 psi at halftime. The average of one gauge for the 11 balls was 11.49 psi, on the upper range of what the balls should have measured. The average of the other gauge was 11.11 psi, clearly lower than what the balls should have measured"........
Even using the lower PSI readings.......we are talking about 1/4 lb PSI below accepted deflation. In other words, Tom Brady and the New England Patriots engaged in a massive plot of clandestine football deflation for a net reduction of 1/4 lb PSI.
That Tom Brady....he is one finicky, ball squeezing QB.
I dare any lard ass reporter to grip 2 footballs that are 1/4 lbs psi apart and identify the "illegal" ball.

What do you think of all this Sam?

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Back when the story first broke, many people from random people at work to football players on ESPN ran tests squeezing two balls with a 2 psi difference. Some could notice the difference and some could not. Mark Brunell certainly did, but Joe Theisman did not. That is still stuck in people's minds, but it was based on a lie told by Goodell's minions. Try the test again with a 0.3 psi difference and no one, including Brunell, will notice the difference. It sounds like a fun test for ESPN or the NFL Network to do again with accurate information, but, no, they would not dare.

NashuaPats said:

Exactly. Anderson said he used the logo gauge. The logo gauge showed the balls measured exactly as expected. The end. This cannot be stressed enough. Everything that came after has been smoke and mirrors. Even beginning an investigation was unethical.

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Right. There are only two possibilities. Either the Logo gauge was used, proving nothing happened. Or, at worst, the other gauge was used, suggesting - only suggesting - that there was a drop in pressure undiscernable to an unaided human.

borg said:

And another thing.....
"On page 113 of the Wells report, Wells says that the Patriots footballs would have been justified to have measured between 11.32 psi and 11.52 psi at halftime. The average of one gauge for the 11 balls was 11.49 psi, on the upper range of what the balls should have measured. The average of the other gauge was 11.11 psi, clearly lower than what the balls should have measured"........
Even using the lower PSI readings.......we are talking about 1/4 lb PSI below accepted deflation. In other words, Tom Brady and the New England Patriots engaged in a massive plot of clandestine football deflation for a net reduction of 1/4 lb PSI.
That Tom Brady....he is one finicky, ball squeezing QB.
I dare any lard ass reporter to grip 2 footballs that are 1/4 lbs psi apart and identify the "illegal" ball.

What do you think of all this Sam?

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That's the message to get out and King did that today. If we believe Wells it was 11.11 and if we believe Walt it was 11.49. Both numbers represent either none to very little air missing which is why Mort's infamous leaks become that much more suspicious and damaging. The NFL got the Cheating Again theme out there when everyone was thinking 2 psi. If they had first released 0.2 or 0.3 psi in the beginning the NFL would have never had a chance.

hambone1818 said:

Maybe it's my own bias but I think, as close as he's been to all this, he could easily be do a Florio-esque rip-job if he wanted. Maybe it's more of an ESPN muzzle, or even Reiss himself not wanting to do it, but he hasn't called out Mort or the league for the false report to my knowledge.

But mostly my point is that ESPN employs dozens of national on-air people and writers, none of whom have been trumpeting the false report leaked to Mort or the obvious bias of the NFL. No one there has mentioned the context report besides Reiss, or the recent updates with the e-mails. The network has been mum, so maybe I should say less Reiss--because in fairness to him he's had a pretty balanced view on it even if he hasn't come out too strong against the league imo--and more ESPN's national coverage.

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He has called out Mort though. Or rather than calling out Mort directly, he's very definitely called out the league for not immediately correcting the misinformation. He's done that repeatedly at this point.

NashuaPats said:

I'm looking forward to a 20 F degree game in GB and the balls dropping 2 1/2 psi and hearing all the people declaring it being some sort of voodoo hocus pocus and that the balls must have been compromised.

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I believe there is a significant number of people out there who don't believe the IGL is real. Even if it was demonstrated for them, they'd claim the equipment was faulty or the ball was tampered with.

.....And the tide continues to turn and the NFL's narrative becomes weaker and weaker. I don't watch ESPN anymore, but I'm sure that ANY talk about "framegate" has diminished to virtually nothing. If they can't say anything bad about the Brady/Pats, they won't say anything at all.

I don't give a sh!t that the owners are mad at Goodell because this scandal is bleeding into the new season. THAT's a piss poor reason to be mad. They SHOULD be mad that their NFL front office CREATED the problem in the first place when NO crime occurred. They then maliciously slander one of their fellow owners and best players to the point of legal culpability. And to make matters worse, they left a trail of evidence that even morons can follow, and the best PR strategies can't cover up.

There CANNOT be any "settlement" on this. At this point merely vacating the suspension in exchange for a fine would simply be counterproductive for the Pats and especially Brady. Nothing but an admission by the league that the Pats did NOTHING wrong, and Brady did NOTHING wrong, and the League did EVERYTHING wrong at the start, with the report, and the appeal. That should be the result, because THAT is what happened.

The league should get out in front of this now, BEFORE the story of their complete perfidy starts to lead the national news with the story that demonizes the league, because a cabal of self interested haters created the problem then tried to profit from the very mess they created. I can see the title of the 60 Minutes segment now. "How the NFL tried to destroy their best player and WHY" tonight on 60 Minutes.

BTW- I think this entire affair should prove the great majority of the owners that there is a very corrupt element within the NFL league office that needs to be rooted out. If it doesn't do it now, they will eventually damage the league beyond repair. And Mark Cuban's prediction will come true, sooner rather than later. Goodell and his minions need to go NOW!

Talking about these bias outlets, I am still waiting for CBS to report the email release by the Patriots.. no where to be seen. Its so bloody blatant, and basically on a par with companies price fixing goods.. you don't sell at this price.. we won't let you sell the goods.. APPLE.

You don't report it this way.. kiss goodbye to decent games to cover on your new contract.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/teams/page/NE/new-england-patriots

This whole thing is bordering on FIFA proportions of fraud. I know the FBI are busy with them at the moment but damn, they should look into this too. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't go onto the FBI site and report the NFL office lol

Someone should write something showing all the **** that has gone on and then everyone posts it to the FBI website.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

I can see the judge privately saying:

"Mr. Goodell, you are not going to win this case with me. The facts just are not with you. So you can either compromise or lose completely in my decision. The choice is yours. The other side is adamant about no suspension, and you are adamant that there must be a suspension. I DO WANT a compromise and DO NOT desire any further arbitration.

The sensible compromise for your side to propose, and one that lets you out of your untenable position most gracefully, is for you to offer to delay the decision on all punishments on this issue until next February. If both sides are agreeable to such a compromise, the decision will be made here in my courtroom, by me or by a designated arbitrator of my choice, after reviewing actual data for measured ball pressures in cold weather games played during the 2015 season. You now have a procedure in place for doing this.

Mr. Goodell, such a compromise would have the undesired and admittedly unfair effect of lengthening the uncertainty, in some peoples minds, of Mr. Brady's guilt or innocence. Accordingly, Brady and the NFLPA may not accept that scenario without additional concessions on your part. What would be reasonable for them to additionally ask of you, when announcing any agreement for a delay in punishment is as follows: 1) an apology from you for making conclusions without sufficient evidence, and 2) an assertion that no data supports your previous ruling at this time.

You must also pledge to me that you will clean up your office by removing from their positions the unethical people who guided the expansion of this story from a molehill to a mountain through willfully leaking and also not correcting false information. Am I clear, Mr. Goodell?"

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If the NFL accepted this I would think it would be with a notion that no further lawsuits would be filed by Brady in the future regarding this issue.

NashuaPats said:

Back when the story first broke, many people from random people at work to football players on ESPN ran tests squeezing two balls with a 2 psi difference. Some could notice the difference and some could not. Mark Brunell certainly did, but Joe Theisman did not. That is still stuck in people's minds, but it was based on a lie told by Goodell's minions. Try the test again with a 0.3 psi difference and no one, including Brunell, will notice the difference. It sounds like a fun test for ESPN or the NFL Network to do again with accurate information, but, no, they would not dare.

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It's funnier than that. Any football player, including mr. weepy, that played in a game at or below freezing were playing with footballs that measured 10.5 - 11.5 psi (2 psi below locker room pressure) during the game. They never noticed then, did they? What a bunch of idiots.

turkeyneck said:

Right. There are only two possibilities. Either the Logo gauge was used, proving nothing happened. Or, at worst, the other gauge was used, suggesting - only suggesting - that there was a drop in pressure undiscernable to an unaided human.

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I think this is a point that matters significantly in assessing guilt or punishment that we missed the boat on because we were using science to prove total exoneration.

Lets assume you couldn't prove total exoneration with science.

You must then still prove guilt.
The Wells report itself said there was not enough data to prove guilt.
It therefore went on a hunting expedition of assumptions to see if it could create a set of assumptions that could INDICATE POTENTIAL guilt.


Lets put it another way.
Roger Goodell is accused of murder. The murder takes place in Foxboro Mass. The murder weapon is a hammer. He is seen in New York at 1 PM getting into a vehicle, and is seen later at 6 PM getting out of the vehicle. The driving time from where he is spotted to the murder scene and back, adhering to the speed limit is 7 hours. Scientist test his vehicle and determine the maximum speed it can be driven at without a more likely than not chance of being involved in an accident is 140 mph. If he drove 140 mph he would have gotten back at 6:02, leaving him 100 seconds to commit the murder. Once, years ago, Goodell purchased a hammer, and he cannot find it. Goodells explanation is that he was drinking with Kensil and Vincent that afternoon, and they will say so. The investigators find a text from Kensil to Vincent from 6 months ago, asking if he had an extra hammer that Kensil could borrow.
Goodell texted a friend that 'i got hammered last night' the next morning.

Can you prove he didn't drive there and back? No. Can you find under any level of sanity that he can be guilty of murder? Of course not.

A really interesting read, I wonder if the author posts here:
http://beantowngal.com/2015/08/03/h...rmind-behind-deflategate-framed-the-patriots/

It’s one thing to set up a sting to catch someone in the act of a crime, but it’s a whole different ball game when an official plants evidence in order to justify an investigation. It doesn’t matter if the official believes the suspect is guilty, planting evidence is a crime. In fact in the real world, it’s a felony.

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Big Bucks said:

Talking about these bias outlets, I am still waiting for CBS to report the email release by the Patriots.. no where to be seen. Its so bloody blatant, and basically on a par with companies price fixing goods.. you don't sell at this price.. we won't let you sell the goods.. APPLE.

You don't report it this way.. kiss goodbye to decent games to cover on your new contract.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/teams/page/NE/new-england-patriots

This whole thing is bordering on FIFA proportions of fraud. I know the FBI are busy with them at the moment but damn, they should look into this too. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't go onto the FBI site and report the NFL office lol

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I dunno. That would be very odd if CBS of all outlets was biased AGAINST the Pats.

Of all the media, CBS has the CLOSEST relationship to Kraft. Second place is not even close.

First, of course, there is the CBS Scene. Then, Les Moonves is as close a friend to Bob Kraft as walks the earth today.

I don't see the motivation.

shmessy said:

I dunno. That would be very odd if CBS of all outlets was biased AGAINST the Pats.

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Can you see the email report?

AndyJohnson said:

I think this is a point that matters significantly in assessing guilt or punishment that we missed the boat on because we were using science to prove total exoneration.

Lets assume you couldn't prove total exoneration with science.

You must then still prove guilt.
The Wells report itself said there was not enough data to prove guilt.
It therefore went on a hunting expedition of assumptions to see if it could create a set of assumptions that could INDICATE POTENTIAL guilt.


Lets put it another way.
Roger Goodell is accused of murder. The murder takes place in Foxboro Mass. The murder weapon is a hammer. He is seen in New York at 1 PM getting into a vehicle, and is seen later at 6 PM getting out of the vehicle. The driving time from where he is spotted to the murder scene and back, adhering to the speed limit is 7 hours. Scientist test his vehicle and determine the maximum speed it can be driven at without a more likely than not chance of being involved in an accident is 140 mph. If he drove 140 mph he would have gotten back at 6:02, leaving him 100 seconds to commit the murder. Once, years ago, Goodell purchased a hammer, and he cannot find it. Goodells explanation is that he was drinking with Kensil and Vincent that afternoon, and they will say so. The investigators find a text from Kensil to Vincent from 6 months ago, asking if he had an extra hammer that Kensil could borrow.
Goodell texted a friend that 'i got hammered last night' the next morning.

Can you prove he didn't drive there and back? No. Can you find under any level of sanity that he can be guilty of murder? Of course not.

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Meanwhile the guy who was supposedly murdered appears and says "Hey guys, I'm fine. I just took off for a couple days without telling anyone." And then Goodell is convicted anyway because of the circumstantial evidence.

I actually would not mind if that happened to him.

NashuaPats said:

Meanwhile the guy who was supposedly murdered appears and says "Hey guys, I'm fine. I just took off for a couple days without telling anyone." And then Goodell is convicted anyway because of the circumstantial evidence.

I actually would not mind if that happened to him.

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Well, the point is not proving nothing happened, but proving something did.
The plethora of assumptions that you have to make to do so is ridiculous.
At the bottom of it all, is that there is no data available to conclude guilt, and that is the fault of the NFL, not Tom Brady or the Patriots.

shmessy said:

I dunno. That would be very odd if CBS of all outlets was biased AGAINST the Pats.

Of all the media, CBS has the CLOSEST relationship to Kraft. Second place is not even close.

First, of course, there is the CBS Scene. Then, Les Moonves is as close a friend to Bob Kraft as walks the earth today.

I don't see the motivation.

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Are you sure? Check out this list. Brady was #4, 5 spots ahead of Bernie Madoff.


http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/epic-cheating-scandals/4/