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New Order From Judge Berman (Friday 7/31 Afternoon)


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Mow the judges lawn? Lol. I don't know, but he did nothing wrong, why admit quilt. He will dubbed a cheater for eternity. I don't see him doing that. But, I have no experience in these matters. I, personally would not give in if I truly were innocent. I think the 1 mil and 2 draft picks is a pretty good compromise

Personally, I hope Brady stands on principle and tells the league to "shove it, I did nothing wrong and your notion of 'due process' is f*cked." If the Judge upholds this foolishness then f*ck him, too!

Well the media theory at least this AM on wEEI was that Brady loves to play football and that all he wants to do and also he is a team player so if the suspension comes down to 1 game vs 4 , he may take it upon insistence from the pats for the good of the team and also because he can definitively miss 1 game.

Dont know what will happen. Maybe there is another shoe waiting to drop either from Brady's side or (hopefully not) from the NFL's side which may sway this again definitively.
 
Might depend on what he had for breakfast...
On a serious note, he's already formed an opinion on the basic facts in play. He as much as said so in his directions to the parties. Everybody should read it carefully. It's only a few words and we should pay attention to each one.
If he thinks that Goodell has an agenda and Wells is a weasel, that's one thing.
If he thinks that Brady is Too Cool for School and if Brady does anything to reinforce that impression in his court room, then fuhgettabout it.
If I were Brady's team, I'd plant an article about Brady's dad in the NYT this week and keep Gisele as far away from the courtroom as possible...or maybe run an article on her parents, a teacher and postal worker in Brazil.
First. my personal thanks for walking us "layman" through this process and this district (Southern NY) in particular.

I can't find, but I thought you outlines 2 proposals for Brady to submit for settling with the NFL (perhaps I recall the wrong poster). But, I'll ask my question: Is there any advantage for submitting settlement criteria first? The NFL has been beating Brady/NFLPA to the punch every time and the fact that the NFL hasn't moved from their 4 game/admit guilt precedent is setting the bar way too high.

Should Brady be the first to offer the NFL terms for a settlement and keep them on the defensive?

My opinion, the 2 sides will be so far from the middle that it will have to be referred to Judge Berman on the 12th.
 
Berman already named some other judge to be standing by to help with settlement discussions. I forget the details.

Magistrate Francis. If the NFL and NFLPA want to talk settlement before the 8/12 conference, they can call upon him to assist them.
 
Good info.

So she could be potentially designated by Bermen to play referee and make a ruling?

No, she is now a private mediator/arbitrator. He could ask Magistrate Francis to write a Report and Recommendation to him. He probably won't because time is short. He is going to "knock their heads together" at the 8/12 and 8/19 conferences.

My hunch is that this is all good for Brady because I get the impression that Berman's personal view is that this is overblown and not worth the time or money spent on it. I haven't talked to the Judge or anyone in his chambers, but that's my guess. Most judges like settlements, but Judge Berman likes them more than most.
 
No, she is now a private mediator/arbitrator. He could ask Magistrate Francis to write a Report and Recommendation to him. He probably won't because time is short. He is going to "knock their heads together" at the 8/12 and 8/19 conferences.

My hunch is that this is all good for Brady because I get the impression that Berman's personal view is that this is overblown and not worth the time or money spent on it. I haven't talked to the Judge or anyone in his chambers, but that's my guess. Most judges like settlements, but Judge Berman likes them more than most.
I was on the beach with a state judge today and we were talking. He said the same this as you. Great minds think alike!
 
First. my personal thanks for walking us "layman" through this process and this district (Southern NY) in particular.

I can't find, but I thought you outlines 2 proposals for Brady to submit for settling with the NFL (perhaps I recall the wrong poster). But, I'll ask my question: Is there any advantage for submitting settlement criteria first? The NFL has been beating Brady/NFLPA to the punch every time and the fact that the NFL hasn't moved from their 4 game/admit guilt precedent is setting the bar way too high.

Should Brady be the first to offer the NFL terms for a settlement and keep them on the defensive?

My opinion, the 2 sides will be so far from the middle that it will have to be referred to Judge Berman on the 12th.
I'm a total layman. I've deferred throughout to the litigators out here who have posted some useful stuff, like MassPats38, who should be doing commentary in the national media.

I've just given my perceptions of Berman based on 25 years of living around guys like him here in Manhattan. I might be right, I might be wrong, but I think I understand who Judge Berman is.

I think you did recall the wrong poster, as I have no idea and have taken no view on what Brady should submit. In fact, my guess is that the less he "submits" the better at this point unless it's a suggested settlement.

What I do (think I) know is:

1) Berman really does want to see a good faith effort at a settlement. That's basically bad news for the NFL, because it suggests he thinks there's something to "settle," which is clearly not what Goodell thinks. Can Brady sell Berman the idea that offering to pay a fine for "not co-operating" is enough good faith? I don't have the foggiest idea. Can Goodell sell Berman the idea that reducing the suspension to two games is enough? I don't know.

2) If they're as far apart as you suggest they might be on the 12th, Berman will just go with the impression he has formed from the two Motions that have been presented to him, whatever that might be. See the post to which you responded. He either thinks Goodell is a fraud and Wells is a weasel and will vacate the ruling or he thinks that Brady is Too Cool for School and is hiding something and will uphold the ruling. Your guess is as good as mine as to where he is on all of that. I have absolutely no idea, but I think things look just a little better for Brady than they do for Goodell, but it's close.

Berman really doesn't want this case in his court; he's not some 45 year old judge trying to get his face in the papers and make a name for himself. The case was foisted on him. That's good for Brady. I think Goodell was hoping for an ambitious judge who would see this as a way to endear himself to the public in New York and get his name in lights. Instead he got a judge, who, a a few months ago, probably wouldn't have recognized Tom Brady or Eli Manning on the street if they walked past him.

If you read Berman's instructions to the two sides, they are short, terse and don't evidence much patience.

He wants Brady and Goodell in his presence "without limitation." I sure as hell wouldn't want to be the one who tells him that the times and dates he has dictated don't "fit with my schedule."

He wants the two sides to make nice and show him they tried to settle.

He doesn't want to read more than 15 (double spaced!) pages.

In effect, he's daring each side to take the chance of pissing him off.

Berman holds all the cards at this point.

If he vacates Goodell's ruling, Goodell is basically ****ed.

If he affirms it, Brady has a very narrow set of low probability options left before him.

That's all this layman who has lived among folks like Berman for 25 years in NYC. I might be right. I might be wrong.
 
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I was on the beach with a state judge today and we were talking. He said the same this as you. Great minds think alike!

Thanks for the compliment! It's undeserved, at least in my case, but nice to hear all the same.

Berman was once a state judge too. :)
 
I really don't get the settlement discussions. Brady is in court now because he wants 0 games..not sure how there can be any settlement now. Doesn't Berman understand this?
We're past that point. Berman "understands" exactly what he has been asked to do, i.e., rule on the Motions before him to Uphold or Vacate the Arbiter's findings in the Brady case.

That means that, if there isn't a Settlement, Berman is either going to Uphold or Vacate Goodell's ruling.

If he upholds it, the game is more or less over for Brady, except for a couple of legal Hail Mary's.

If he vacates it, then Goodell is ****ed as the case will be referred to an independent arbiter, probably named by the Court, who will see the whole thing for the fraud it is.
 
It's all a process and all about who blinks first.
I think that's 100% right.

Goodell expected an ambitious judge who would see this case has a chance to make a name for himself. Instead he got a cranky judge with senior status who probably finds the whole thing a waste of his time and wants it out of his court by the end of the month.

So, who has more to lose?

Brady? Brady's already ****ed in the eyes of the public. History, thanks to some of the stuff that is finally being written by national reporters who have seen the whole thing for the fraud that it is, will see this as nonsense and a blip on the radar screen. So, the Pats go 2--2 in their first four games instead of 3--1 or 4--0.? That worked out OK for them last year. Brady can survive this with his legacy and his wealth intact.

But Goodell has everything to lose. If a judge in the court to which HE petitioned that HIS Ruling be upheld were to vacate his Ruling, then he is basically finished...not just in the eyes of the media, but in the eyes of the owners. He thought he was being clever by "outmaneuvering" the NFLPA and establishing New York as the venue, and that would have turned out to be the case except that he got the wrong judge. That doesn't say that Berman will find for Brady, just that it isn't the slam dunk the NFL thought it would be. I suspect that Wells was patting himself on the back for being so clever...and then he learned who the judge was...oopsie!

So, the hearings in front of the Magistrate this week will be very, very interesting and I'm sure that you could sell tickets to Judge Berman's courtroom on the 12th and the 19th!

How much will Goodell have to give to make Brady look unreasonable to Berman? How much will Brady have to give to convince Berman of the active "participation" in the process that Berman's order demands?

Stay tuned.
 
Can't the NFLPA just ask him to follow the precedent set by the Missouri supreme court in Goodell cannot act as an arbitrator on these grounds:

(1) the terms of Plaintiff’s employment contract designating the commissioner of the National Football League (NFL) as the sole arbitrator with unfettered discretion to establish the rules for arbitration are unconscionable and, therefore, unenforceable

http://www.forbes.com/sites/vincent...nds-roger-goodell-and-the-nfl-a-major-defeat/
 
Berman already named some other judge to be standing by to help with settlement discussions. I forget the details.

From Berman's order on Friday:

"Lastly, I request that you all engage in comprehensive, good-faith settlement discussions prior to the conference on August 12,2015. Magistrate Judge James C. Francis, IV is available to assist you if you wish. Settlement Conference set for 8/12/2015 at 11:00 AM before Judge Richard M. Berman. Settlement Conference set for 8/19/2015 at 10:00 AM before Judge Richard M. Berman."

Brady and Goodell have been instructed to appear "without limitation" at each Conference.
 
Well at least that Brady and Goodell will have to settle their differences regardless how one feels about the other. Just get it over with and play football!
 
Well at least that Brady and Goodell will have to settle their differences regardless how one feels about the other. Just get it over with and play football!
They have to take a chance. What will Berman do if they can't "settle their differences?" Will he Vacate or Uphold? I think Goodell has a lot more to lose than Brady, but that's just my opinion.
 
From Berman's order on Friday:

"Lastly, I request that you all engage in comprehensive, good-faith settlement discussions prior to the conference on August 12,2015. Magistrate Judge James C. Francis, IV is available to assist you if you wish. Settlement Conference set for 8/12/2015 at 11:00 AM before Judge Richard M. Berman. Settlement Conference set for 8/19/2015 at 10:00 AM before Judge Richard M. Berman."

Brady and Goodell have been instructed to appear "without limitation" at each Conference.
One quick question -- "without limitation" means clear your calendar, you'll be here for the whole day?
 
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Good faith would be accepting a fine double to what Favre got.

To even accept one game to take one for the league is asinine. He mind as well sit on Krafts leg while he does it.

I don't know what it's like to be in a federal court environment. I'm hoping Brady doesn't get spooked and just end it August 12th for the sake of ending the whole charade.

I think seeing it through will be his best option and the beginning of the end for Roger and his henchmen.
 
One quick question -- "without limitation" means clear your calendar, you be here for the whole day?
I thought it meant it wasn't limited to them (they could bring others), but they MUST be there. I, too, shall wait for the answer.
 
They have to take a chance. What will Berman do if they can't "settle their differences?" Will he Vacate or Uphold? I think Goodell has a lot more to lose than Brady, but that's just my opinion.

Berman's tone makes the most sense if he's planning to vacate and order a re-hearing with a neutral arbitrator. If he's planning instead to give one side a near-complete victory, then what we are told is the unusual vehemence in his attempt to induce settlement seems odder.

Also, the simpler he thinks the case is, the more sense it makes that he doesn't mind revealing that he's already pretty much judged it already. And the simplest view I can imagine is "Goodell wasn't a neutral arbitrator; hence the whole process needs to be redone; hence none of the other specifics matter."
 
In support of that:

  • Judge Berman isn't going to say "Goodell reached a crazy conclusion on the facts; therefore he must not have been neutral." No way.
  • But he could say "Goodell didn't even seriously consider the due-process issues raised in this brief; that's evidence that he wasn't neutral."
 
They have to take a chance. What will Berman do if they can't "settle their differences?" Will he Vacate or Uphold? I think Goodell has a lot more to lose than Brady, but that's just my opinion.

From my own experience with federal judges, their attitude is generally, "I have better things to do than deal with this crap, please work it out or I'm going to do something someone is going to be very unhappy with."

I just hope and pray he sees Goodell/NFL as the assh*les, if the parties can't come to an accord.
 
I've just given my perceptions of Berman based on 25 years of living around guys like him here in Manhattan. I might be right, I might be wrong, but I think I understand who Judge Berman is.



1) Berman really does want to see a good faith effort at a settlement. That's basically bad news for the NFL, because it suggests he thinks there's something to "settle," which is clearly not what Goodell thinks.

PFS74---what an awesome post! Thanks for sharing. I think that you provide excellent reasoning for your "gut" feeling(s) on this matter. The one and only point that I'd respectfully disagree with, would be your very first point.

From many conversations with my wife's father (my FIL) who is a 35-40 year labor attorney and one of so and so's "top 500" lawyers in the country for this subject matter, the court rarely wishes to get involved in these matters, and often tosses them right back at the two parties telling them to work out their differences. In the case of Judge Berman, I'm not quite as sure as you may be that he's necessarily showing his hand at there being "something to settle," as you suggest. I think he'd likely do the same exact thing to 9/10 cases involving labor disputes under contract. Just my humble opinion, as I don't know anything more than you on the subject. Here's hoping that you're correct!

For what it's worth, I brought up the suggestion during Father's Day dinner way back in June in regards to the possibility of the injunction due to the timeframe involved, and the fact that I personally did not expect an appeal ruling from Goodell for another 7-10 days taking us not only past July, but into August. I knew that sonofa***** would drag it out as long as possible. My FIL did not agree with the idea of the injunction and stated that "they'll likely ask for an expedited decision, instead." On the way home in the car, I told my wife how much I disagreed.....and here we are. LOL.
 
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