Florio alleges NFL conspiracy

Fencer · Aug 2, 2015

patsfan13 said:
Sue Kensil, Pash, Gardi, Blandino and Goodell individually not the NFL?

I don't think any of us knows whether there's a loophole for that in the franchise agreement.

Wax Frog · Aug 2, 2015

SVN said:
I hope there is a tmz type video of some people from the league office.

If there was, I'd celebrate by submitting "schadenfreudeporn" to Urban Dictionary.

Rob0729 · Aug 2, 2015

ctpatsfan77 said:
How would Kraft and/or the Patriots know? I'm not saying they don't, merely that I want to know if/how that happened.

You think the league is leaking it to John Dennis. Kraft is still connected with people in the league and ESPN (he is on the TV committee). Someone in the know could easily told Kraft or someone close to Kraft. I am sure not everyone in the League office hates the Patriots. I bet some are probably on Kraft's side in private and feel the Pats were railroaded and didn't like the way the League office smeared the Patriots. I am sure there are many people in the League that want Kensil or whoever else smeared the Patriots and the League on this gone.

But if Dennis didn't get this info from the Patriots, who would he have gotten it from?

Ivan · Aug 2, 2015

Fencer said:
While I like the idea, I'm not sure what the supposed crime is.

Clearly there could be a tort, and the Patriots might even find a way around the "Do not sue" rules to pursue it. But what would be the crime?

The crime is a conspiracy to defame the Patriots and defraud their owner and star player of almost 3 million dollars. Two high ranking league officials deliberately spread the same lie in an effort to gain sanctions against the Patriots and despite repeated efforts by the Patriots to have the league clarify the truth of the matter they maintained the fraud. They did so knowing it could cost Kraft and Brady millions and then actually the sanctions that cost them it. Had Brady not appealed the cost would be almost 3 million while not including the value of a first round pick, which is also in the millions. This is a criminal conspiracy not simply a sports matter.

Fencer · Aug 2, 2015

Ivan said:
The crime is a conspiracy to defame the Patriots and defraud their owner and star player of almost 3 million dollars. Two high ranking league officials deliberately spread the same lie in an effort to gain sanctions against the Patriots and despite repeated efforts by the Patriots to have the league clarify the truth of the matter they maintained the fraud. They did so knowing it could cost Kraft and Brady millions and then actually the sanctions that cost them it. Had Brady not appealed the cost would be almost 3 million while not including the value of a first round pick, which is also in the millions. This is a criminal conspiracy not simply a sports matter.

Defamation is not a crime.

As for the fraud -- I'm not seeing the criminal fraud either.

PatsFanSince74 · Aug 2, 2015

This is why Kraft's decision to give up his right to appeal and the possibility of suing the League is so damaging. I think he looked a few steps ahead after Goodell's "ruling" and quickly figured that out, which is why he made his remarks at Belichick's press conference. He is smart enough to have figured out how huge his error was in getting snookered by Goodell.

If the Court upholds Goodell's ruling, Brady's options are limited. Yes, he could sue on his own on any number of grounds, but he will be doing so as a plaintiff who has had an Arbiter's Ruling regarding the findings of an adversarial, contractual disciplinary proceeding against him upheld by a Federal Court. That is a very steep hill to climb when asking another court to consider a case.

Let's hope that Judge Berman vacates Goodell's ruling and refers the entire mess to an independent arbiter, acceptable to his court. That puts everything on the table again.

ctpatsfan77 · Aug 2, 2015

Fencer said:
Defamation is not a crime.

As for the fraud -- I'm not seeing the criminal fraud either.

True, it's a tort, not a "crime."

RelocatedPatFan · Aug 2, 2015

Rob0729 said:
But if Dennis didn't get this info from the Patriots, who would he have gotten it from?

The same people who could have given it to Kraft?

PatsFanSince74 · Aug 2, 2015

Ivan said:
The crime is a conspiracy to defame the Patriots and defraud their owner and star player of almost 3 million dollars. Two high ranking league officials deliberately spread the same lie in an effort to gain sanctions against the Patriots and despite repeated efforts by the Patriots to have the league clarify the truth of the matter they maintained the fraud. They did so knowing it could cost Kraft and Brady millions and then actually the sanctions that cost them it. Had Brady not appealed the cost would be almost 3 million while not including the value of a first round pick, which is also in the millions. This is a criminal conspiracy not simply a sports matter.

Emotionally, I'm on your side.
But, defamation is a civil tort.
The rest is beyond my expertise to determine, but I'm not sure it will be easy to find a Prosecutor to take it to trial, if you are suggesting criminal proceedings, especially when the team's owner has declined his own ability to appeal or right to sue in civil court.
The best we can hope is that Judge Berman vacates Goodell's ruling and refers the matter to an independent arbiter, acceptable to his court. In that context, any nefarious activities by the NFL would be exposed.

Wax Frog · Aug 2, 2015

Froob said:
Man and I've said this before but, all these years most of us (me included) thought he was insane. As it turns out, he was the most sane one on the board.

I've long believed that many "nuts" are that way because they see aspects of reality others either can't or won't.

MagicMarker · Aug 2, 2015

PatsFanSince74 said:
Emotionally, I'm on your side.
But, defamation is a civil tort.
The rest is beyond my expertise to determine, but I'm not sure it will be easy to find a Prosecutor to take it to trial, if you are suggesting criminal proceedings, especially when the team's owner has declined his own ability to appeal or right to sue in civil court.
The best we can hope is that Judge Berman vacates Goodell's ruling and refers the matter to an independent arbiter, acceptable to his court. In that context, any nefarious activities by the NFL would be exposed.

If Goodell's ruling is vacated, is that the appeal or Vincent's original hearing or both? What I'm asking is if Vincent's ruling would be the baseline or if a new appeal would start from scratch.

patfanken · Aug 2, 2015

MagicMarker said:
I just responded to one of the comments over there....One anti-Patriots guy said, basically -- You guys are guilty. Your balls were 1 PSI below 12.5. I had to tell him even the Wells report said that was exactly where they'd be expected to be.

Yeah I went back to post and shock of shocks my post HADN'T been erased. As of my last visit there have been 185 comments and haters account for less than 10% of them. Most of them are the usual crap and the even the more thoughtful ones are relying on Welled interpretation of the Exponent results and completely ignoring the fact even Exponent concluded they could document whether or not anyone had purposely deflated any footballs. I was surprise to see the tide turn so fast. These were Lupica type comments, they are really starting to come around to the fact "deflategate" is actually "framegate"

BTW - This was my post

When will the mediots and haters finally come to the truth that "framegate" was nothing more than an attempt by a small cabal of league officials and owners who couldn't beat the Pats on the field, so they tried to take them down off it. Just look at the evidence

Brady told the ball boys to deflate the game balls - MYTH
11 of 12 Patriots balls where 2 lbs under spec- MYTH
The NFL didn't purposely leak false info to the mediots - MYTH
Brady "destroyed" his phone to avoid incriminating evidence - MYTH
Welles told Brady he'd be punished if he didn't hand over his phone - MYTH
The Exponent tests prove Brady is guilty - MYTH
All of the Colts ball were tested and were all in spec - MYTH

The entire affair was an attempted sting to harm the Patriots - FACT
The Ideal Gas laws prove beyond a doubt that the Balls weren't purposely deflated below spec. FACT
Brady didn't "destroy" his cell phone to avoid punishment - FACT
The Pats punishment went MILES beyond any previous penalties given for ball tampering - FACT.
The league office conducted a smear campaign on the Pats and Brady - FACT
.....and most of the country bought it - FACT- sadly

Do I really need to go on? There is more, but how much evidence does one need before even the most partisan fan will have to admit that "framegate" was a sham.

PatsFanInVa · Aug 2, 2015

fair catch fryar said:
I would consider that to be a pretty good example of cheating. No?

NFL*

patfanken · Aug 2, 2015

MagicMarker said:
If Goodell's ruling is vacated, is that the appeal or Vincent's original hearing or both? What I'm asking is if Vincent's ruling would be the baseline or if a new appeal would start from scratch.

If this trend continues and it become common wisdom that NOTHING toward happened at the AFCCG, I don't see how the NFL can take away those draft picks, and still show any integrity. HOWEVER, that being said, I also don't think the NFL would be obligated to give them back because of Kraft's cave-in last May.

At any rate, this is an issue that needs to be addressed by a defamation suit, and not just from Brady. If the Pats ever want to see those picks, Kraft is going to have to sue to get them back or at best threaten to sue.

DarrylS · Aug 2, 2015

It takes a village to really be idiotic..

Patsfanin Philly · Aug 2, 2015

robertweathers said:
4 letters RICO

The more I dig in to it, I think you have something. RICO can also be filed by an individual who has been wronged and filed as a tort rather than a crime. One of the predicate (underlying )offenses allowed is fraud. If Brady could show that they met the elements for fraud as well as for RICO, he could potentially have something.... I wonder if suing them individually and NOT as members of the NFL because they were acted outside the scope of their employment would be allowed..
Any legal minds care to opine????

XLIX · Aug 2, 2015

Jim Colclough fan said:
Florio has been fantastic. He obviously sees a major injustice and he is hell-bent on seeking the truth.

His reporting and analysis has been exceptional since the Wells Report was made public

Agreed. The intelligent reporters out there (what few there are) know that it is a far, far bigger story that forces at the league office were conspiring against a member club than the notion that maybe one team was engaging in an equipment violation.

ViperGTS · Aug 2, 2015

DefenseRules said:
They probably don't have that much power over NBC as they have over ESPN.

Exactly. NBC isn't beholden to corrupt sports leagues. Without those, ESPN is nothing. Wait, ESPN is nothing.

Froob · Aug 2, 2015

Patsfanin Philly said:
The more I dig in to it, I think you have something. RICO can also be filed by an individual who has been wronged and filed as a tort rather than a crime. One of the predicate (underlying )offenses allowed is fraud. If Brady could show that they met the elements for fraud as well as for RICO, he could potentially have something.... I wonder if suing them individually and NOT as members of the NFL because they were acted outside the scope of their employment would be allowed..
Any legal minds care to opine????

Season ticket holders on the site should look into it if they can file a charge.

PATS16N0 · Aug 2, 2015

ViperGTS said:
Exactly. NBC isn't beholden to corrupt sports leagues. Without those, ESPN is nothing. Wait, ESPN is nothing.

So good

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