New Order From Judge Berman (Friday 7/31 Afternoon)

robertweathers said:

Yea that was the magistrate judge.

I'm just wonderinf if the Barbara Jones mentioned by the other poster is the same that slapped around Goodell over the Ray Rice case.

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Yes

PatsFanSince74 said:

OK.

But, please know that I have zero idea what this guy is going to do. I could just as easily see him telling Goodell to shove his "Findings" up his butt and go home to his faux manse in Bronxville as I could see him telling Tom Brady and his jillionaire wife to get out of his sight.

That's what would make this such great theater to me if I didn't care so much about Brady.

A book could and no doubt will be written around the themes that will play themselves out in lower Manhattan over the next few weeks.

This is "Real New York" being played out in front of our eyes.

Two guys with a lot in common (Berman and Kessler) and two guys with long histories in the state (Berman and Goodell's father...remember, Berman was Jacob Javits' AA...I wouldn't be surprised if Berman met Goodell when he was in short pants).

It could really go either way. The tipping point might be the interloper, Wells. I have a gut feeling that Berman disdains weasels like Wells.

The one thing I'll be watching on the 12th is whether Kessler and Berman get into some sort of tribal argument and whether Berman shows any deference at all to the son of his mentor's colleague...

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Agree with shmessy - your posts on this have been great reading. Learned much from your observations.

Jim Colclough fan said:

Agree with shmessy - your posts on this have been great reading. Learned much from your observations.

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Thanks. I wish I could say my posts leave me optimistic.

I'm hopeful, but not optimistic; "hopeful" because Berman is probably as "friendly" a judge as Brady was going to get, including in Massachusetts. Not optimistic because of how much the NFLPA bargained away in the CBA.

There's a very thorough article in today's Boston Globe that sums the situation up very well. It probably deserves its own thread, but here's a representative quote:

"While it seems unfair on its face that Goodell served as the hearing officer at Brady’s appeal on June 23, he is expressly given that power by Article 46 in the NFL’s collective bargaining agreement, which was agreed to by the NFL Players Association.

“If a judge treats this as a labor arbitration, the judge will be reluctant to overturn the decision unless the judge is really convinced that Goodell’s demonstrable lack of neutrality deprived Brady of any kind of fair consideration,” Greenbaum [Marc Greenbaum, Professor of Labor and Employment Law at Suffolk University] said. “One way to look at it is, the players made their bed with this one, let them figure it out in the next CBA.”

PatsFanSince74 said:

Thanks. I wish I could say my posts leave me optimistic.

I'm hopeful, but not optimistic; "hopeful" because Berman is probably as "friendly" a judge as Brady was going to get, including in Massachusetts. Not optimistic because of how much the NFLPA bargained away in the CBA.

There's a very thorough article in today's Boston Globe that sums the situation up very well. It probably deserves its own thread, but here's a representative quote:

"While it seems unfair on its face that Goodell served as the hearing officer at Brady’s appeal on June 23, he is expressly given that power by Article 46 in the NFL’s collective bargaining agreement, which was agreed to by the NFL Players Association.

“If a judge treats this as a labor arbitration, the judge will be reluctant to overturn the decision unless the judge is really convinced that Goodell’s demonstrable lack of neutrality deprived Brady of any kind of fair consideration,” Greenbaum [Marc Greenbaum, Professor of Labor and Employment Law at Suffolk University] said. “One way to look at it is, the players made their bed with this one, let them figure it out in the next CBA.”

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Agreed but without spending more than one minute on a reply, how do you explain the other disciplinary rulings by Goody being overturned in court for reason of failure to be fair and follow process as defined in the CBA?

The media disinformation on this is so annoying. I was hearing the early am radio here in the bay area , not sure it was cbs radio or espn radio but the guy was saying this case will be settled with the judge now wanting the sides to do so becuase Brady doesnt want to go the stand in the court or have his phone subpoenaed or the equipment guys on the stand. People dont even tell the audience what the case is about.

robertweathers said:

Agreed but without spending more than one minute on a reply, how do you explain the other disciplinary rulings by Goody being overturned in court for reason of failure to be fair and follow process as defined in the CBA?

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not only that, there is NO rule that says a player can be punished for deflating footballs. it's a team violation and that's it.

PatsFanSince74 said:

Thanks. I wish I could say my posts leave me optimistic.

I'm hopeful, but not optimistic; "hopeful" because Berman is probably as "friendly" a judge as Brady was going to get, including in Massachusetts. Not optimistic because of how much the NFLPA bargained away in the CBA.

There's a very thorough article in today's Boston Globe that sums the situation up very well. It probably deserves its own thread, but here's a representative quote:

"While it seems unfair on its face that Goodell served as the hearing officer at Brady’s appeal on June 23, he is expressly given that power by Article 46 in the NFL’s collective bargaining agreement, which was agreed to by the NFL Players Association.

“If a judge treats this as a labor arbitration, the judge will be reluctant to overturn the decision unless the judge is really convinced that Goodell’s demonstrable lack of neutrality deprived Brady of any kind of fair consideration,” Greenbaum [Marc Greenbaum, Professor of Labor and Employment Law at Suffolk University] said. “One way to look at it is, the players made their bed with this one, let them figure it out in the next CBA.”

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I feel the nfl will offer a 2 game suspension which Brady will reject and then offer a 1 game suspension showing that it has intentions to settle to the judge. Brady will have a tough choice to make at that time and thats what makes me worried. A 1 game deal this late in the season after so long a process could appeal to him although we all are inclined to think it might not and should not . The person in the middle of something always feels differently than outsiders. Strangely the case filed is nothing to do with brady's innnocence but about CBA abuse so dont know where the settlement talks begin..

TommyBrady12 said:

not only that, there is NO rule that says a player can be punished for deflating footballs. it's a team violation and that's it.

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Yes. That too.

PFS74 is a lawyer so he/she can validate my understanding that the NFL has continuously tried to stretch its powers defined in the CBA and been very arbitrary in the process and methodology in how it exacts punishment on players.

Moreso, not having actual proof that an infraction has occurred is a horrible foundation to base a suspension on.

No games, or defamation suit is presented to go to hell on the conclusion of next year's super bowl.

TommyBrady12 said:

not only that, there is NO rule that says a player can be punished for deflating footballs. it's a team violation and that's it.

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Yes, that is all very clearly laid out in Sections three to six of the NFLPA's Motion to Vacate: defects of notice, lack of precedence of the punishment, the inadmissibility of "generally aware" as a standard for guilt, lack of testing protocols and improper delegation of authority to the arbiter.

Judge Berman is being asked to determine whether one or more of those is sufficient to take the uncommon step of vacating the decision of an arbiter.

how ironic the judge did in 2 days what the commisioner shouldve done . Get this sorted out in a room once the news broke and move on. Clearly they saw this as an opportunity to bury goodell's terrible 2014 with this story. No one is talking about it anymore .

PatsFanSince74 said:

Yes, that is all very clearly laid out in Sections three to six of the NFLPA's Motion to Vacate: defects of notice, lack of precedence of the punishment, the inadmissibility of "generally aware" as a standard for guilt, lack of testing protocols and improper delegation of authority to the arbiter.

Judge Berman is being asked to determine whether one or more of those is sufficient to take the uncommon step of vacating the decision of an arbiter.

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So yu feel the judge will accept Goodell as the arbitrator even though he handed out the punishment as well ?

sphen22 said:

No games, or defamation suit is presented to go to hell on the conclusion of next year's super bowl.

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While it is already very difficult for a public figure to prevail in a defamation suit, it will be nearly impossible to do so if a Federal Court has confirmed an arbiter's conclusion regarding the underlying matter. I doubt it would even get heard.

SVN said:

So yu feel the judge will accept Goodell as the arbitrator even though he handed out the punishment as well ?

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What I feel is irrelevant.
It's the CBA that allows Goodell to be the Arbiter. The NFLPA is arguing that the authority was improperly delegated in this case because it alleges that he had a role in devising the discipline itself.
The Judge will listen to both sides and take his own view on that matter.
I have no idea what he will decide.

PatsFanSince74 said:

What I feel is irrelevant.
It's the CBA that allows Goodell to be the Arbiter. The NFLPA is arguing that the authority was improperly delegated in this case because it alleges that he had a role in devising the discipline itself.
The Judge will listen to both sides and take his own view on that matter.
I have no idea what he will decide.

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That's part of it.

They're also arguing that Goodell acted as a partial arbitrator. I think that's where they're strongest, personally.

PatsFanSince74 said:

What I feel is irrelevant.
It's the CBA that allows Goodell to be the Arbiter. The NFLPA is arguing that the authority was improperly delegated in this case because it alleges that he had a role in devising the discipline itself.
The Judge will listen to both sides and take his own view on that matter.
I have no idea what he will decide.

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in your opinion do you think the judge or his offices have had access to the sealed aribitration report and read it or will happen to reach him only when settlement cant be reached ?

SVN said:

how ironic the judge did in 2 days what the commisioner shouldve done . Get this sorted out in a room once the news broke and move on. Clearly they saw this as an opportunity to bury goodell's terrible 2014 with this story. No one is talking about it anymore .

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Exactly. Someone asked me the other day what Goodell could possibly have gained from this and I said " you mean besides the fact that no one is talking about domestic violence, child abuse, or a racist team mascot anymore?"

Haven't got a reply yet.

PatsSox363804 said:

Exactly. Someone asked me the other day what Goodell could possibly have gained from this and I said " you mean besides the fact that no one is talking about domestic violence, child abuse, or a racist team mascot anymore?"

Haven't got a reply yet.

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Yeah , lot of people were asking on radio why would they want to target brady ? How could they otherwise justify a 5 mill dollar invesitigation ?

It seems the only "fair" settlement would be to fine Brady for not turning the phone over (and it's dubious how "fair" that really is) but it's a concession that should get a deal done if the judge gets involved and pushes for it.

If the NFL continues to hold out, I think Kessler's papers set forth a really good case of how Goodell and the NFL ran roughshod over Brady and the resulting punishment was "over the top."

A smart judge would press each side to work out a fine at a number both sides could live with. If the NFL continues to be pigheaded about this, then bring the hammer down, vacate the whole thing, and give Goodell/NFL a verbal "beatdown" in the decision.

If it settles as I suggest- Good news: Brady gets to play for the rest of the season. Bad news: Patriots lost draft picks over nothing; Goodell and the NY "Rat Pack" are still running the show and free to cook up newer and more creative ways to screw us; we will continue to hear crap from the haters. The first 2 pieces of bad news are the only ones that trouble me.

My preferred scenario- NFL holds out and pisses off the judge who vacates the arbitration award and writes that scathing opinion. Goodell's job is now in serious jeopardy, the league has a public relations disaster, and defamation lawsuits start flying.

I just don't get why Goodell hearing the appeal doesn't get more run?

I'm under the impression that Goodell is the only one that has final rule or the authority to distribute punishment. When he handed that power over to Vincent he violated the cba. How on earth could he ever hear the appeal? By the way it is written, he could never hear the appeal.