Patriots Training Camp Day 3 (Easley and Blount active)

supafly · Aug 1, 2015

RayClay said:
I think it would be a shame to cut Wilson. He's obviously a big part of special teams and I bet if given a role, or a need, he could help on the regular defense now too, he's been making decent plays here and there.

Learning, consistency and improvement count in BB land.

Personally, I'd prefer to keep Wilson for the reason you touched on in terms of being able to add more defensively, but BB may not agree with us.

FWIW--no Patriot player saw more ST reps last year, including Slater. How much Ebner's injury was a part of that, is the million dollar question.

Fencer · Aug 1, 2015

gitgronked82 said:
I had a good time today. Few things I noticed (it's hard to notice a lot in all of the 75%, thud, etc)
- gronk and chandler lined up on the same side a lot. That could be real interesting
-Dobson caught a comeback and Collins flew to him and punched it out. Cool play by Jamie
- butler locked up Amendola in goal line 1v1s. Ball hit off butler's shoulder, dola caught it behind him as he went to the ground. Seen that before...

I guess Butler could never be a left fielder; he's lousy at playing the carom.

Fencer · Aug 1, 2015

PatsGuy said:
Though, wasn't' there a question of Dobson being stripped n the entire offence needing to run a lap?

Brady takes laps in TC as well.

Fencer · Aug 1, 2015

patsinthesnow said:
@NEPD_Loyko: Early buzz out of camp on Malcolm Butler is highly encouraging. Team thinks he can make a huge jump and be impact player. It's all on him.

@KevinRDuffy: See last tweet for extended camp notes, but biggest takeaway through 3 days is Malcolm Butler's performance. Highly competitive each play.

@MikeGiardi: Malcolm Butler was by far and away the best Patriots cornerback on the field today. Glued to receivers. So fluid. Confident

I think we have enough evidence to conclude that Butler is a big-time talent.

The cautious among us should focus on the fact that he's never had to cope with being game-planned against or focused on. So if he has any major weaknesses, there's no reason for them to have been uncovered ... yet.

RayClay · Aug 1, 2015

supafly said:
Personally, I'd prefer to keep Wilson for the reason you touched on in terms of being able to add more defensively, but BB may not agree with us.

FWIW--no Patriot player saw more ST reps last year, including Slater. How much Ebner's injury was a part of that, is the million dollar question.

I admit i can't evaluate special team performance, though you've got to notice Slater over the years. It's always been a way to make the team or stay, for a marginal backup, so i guess who stays is who he wants. We have candidates in matthews and others, I'm sure.

Even on BB teams, I don't see anyone except the captain likely to have a long career just on teams.

Fencer · Aug 1, 2015

HawaiianPatsfan said:
What do we do with all our safeties if Richards does truly emerge? Do we look to trade Chung and go with wilson & Harmon as our backups, I would assume there might be a small trade market for him. Or do we cut Wilson and have a solid backup in chung?

Go safety-heavy in the schemes. Use more packages in which safeties could wind up playing more CB-ish roles, especially McCourty.

eom · Aug 1, 2015

Fencer said:
Go safety-heavy in the schemes. Use more packages in which safeties could wind up playing more CB-ish roles, especially McCourty.

some of the more successful defenses the last couple years have been very db heavy packages, and though it seems like nfl is almost moving that way, I'd hate to see lb come off the field.

eom · Aug 1, 2015

JMC00 said:
Well with how the nfl has pushed it the greatest play ever was Beckham's catch or at least that's what they want you to think.

until recently.......

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/...handed-td-catch-on-julian-edelman-pass-073015

Brewskies · Aug 1, 2015

Thanks for the updates, wish I could attend. Sounds like we are off to a great start.

supafly · Aug 1, 2015

RayClay said:
I admit i can't evaluate special team performance, though you've got to notice Slater over the years. It's always been a way to make the team or stay, for a marginal backup, so i guess who stays is who he wants. We have candidates in matthews and others, I'm sure.

Even on BB teams, I don't see anyone except the captain likely to have a long career just on teams.

Showing my ignorance on ST related matters just the same, do both Wilson/Ebner both play the same type of role?

I assume that Ebner would play more of a wedge role, but I'm not sure about Wilson. The only reason I bring it up is that I wonder if it may affect the positional battle?

Fencer · Aug 1, 2015

eom said:
some of the more successful defenses the last couple years have been very db heavy packages, and though it seems like nfl is almost moving that way, I'd hate to see lb come off the field.

BB, despite coaching some of the best LBs and LB groups ever, has long been known for DB-heavy packages. I'm guessing that his "base" in the 2002 Super Bowl was pretty much a dime package -- Law, O-T-I-S, Buckley, Milloy, Jones, and Harris. But I can't find any snap count listings from that long ago to confirm.

BobDigital · Aug 1, 2015

The safety group will be fun to watch. Assuming Richards lives up to or above his draft pick slot with his play i think the 5th DB spot will come down to who is the better STs player period.

If Richards turns out to be really good you will never take him or McCourty off the field and Chung/Harmon would likely be the 3rd guy you add depending on match ups. At that point it doesn't really matter how well your 5th safety plays as he virtually never see the field in that capacity.

That being said when it comes to Ebner vs Wilson (which i assume it is) the STs value is close. I think Ebner is a amazing gunner (as good as any i have seen) and he does everything else pretty well too but Wilson has really developed in his STs and is clearly core.

At this point Ebner has been more injured than Wilson which might cost him.

manxman2601 · Aug 2, 2015

Oswlek said:
I can't even imagine Harmon being on the bubble. Even if Richards is awesome, no other safety is a viable McCourty backup, so you'd think he'd be a lock just from that. Then add in that, barring a complete collapse, he appears assured of a top 4 spot, which would further solidify his roster spot.

Not that he's in Gronk/Edelman territory, but I'd be shocked if Duron isn't on the team.

I agree with this completely as I've believed, from the time he was drafted, that Harmon was brought in as McCourty's backup. My only doubt now is that if we do see the team stress cover-2 as a defensive scheme then there's less need for a cover-1/3 specialist safety which is what Harmon is in my view. If he's not needed as a single-high safety, there's less to differentiate him from Chung or Wilson is my point I suppose.

DarrylS · Aug 2, 2015

Time for a trip in the way back machine, but I miss "Mrs. Bruschi's" TC camp reports..

supafly · Aug 2, 2015

BobDigital said:
That being said when it comes to Ebner vs Wilson (which i assume it is) the STs value is close. I think Ebner is a amazing gunner (as good as any i have seen) and he does everything else pretty well too but Wilson has really developed in his STs and is clearly core.

At this point Ebner has been more injured than Wilson which might cost him.

Bob Didgy--you sure that Ebner doesn't play the wedge role on ST's?

He would seem to be much better suited to that due to his rugby background, and hybrid ability/size.

I could certainly be wrong, so I'm just asking to gain more info. I would like a clear cut answer on the ST's roles of both Ebner and Wilson, if anyone can provide that. Thanks.

PatsFan37 · Aug 2, 2015

RayClay said:
He's sure sudden. Hits like a truck too. Maybe he'll be like Nink or Siliga, hanging around the league long enough for the right situation. I doubt the team is worrying about prototype pass rusher size, especially since they have chandler. I think anyone that can rush the passer is going to get a good look. Good tip, btw.

From Chris Price:

3. One of the youngsters who has managed to stand out over the first three days of Patriots camp is linebacker Eric Martin. The 6-foot-2, 250-pounder who spent the last two years with the Browns (where he played in 29 games and registered 14 total tackles), was acquired in December and added to the New England practice squad. He first made his mark in the offseason when he was named one of the offseason award winners. And on Saturday, he surprised some in the one-on-one drills when he went up against the offensive linemen and held his own — on one play, he flashed some nice quickness when he got past left tackle Nate Solder. No one is suggesting that he will unseat eitherRob Ninkovich or Chandler Jones for a starters’ job coming off the edge, but through the first few days of camp, he’s earned the right to at least be part of the conversation when it comes to potential backups.

Nink, Jones, Sheard, Easley, Hightower, Mayo and Collins. This team has snuck up on the league with a smart, versatile front seven that can rush from any position (okay, a bit of wishful thinking on Easley, but still). And now Martin, too, to add some depth? Very nice!

RayClay · Aug 2, 2015

PatsFan37 said:
From Chris Price:

Nink, Jones, Sheard, Easley, Hightower, Mayo and Collins. This team has snuck up on the league with a smart, versatile front seven that can rush from any position (okay, a bit of wishful thinking on Easley, but still). And now Martin, too, to add some depth? Very nice!

Nice find on that Chris Price article. I think they'll need multiple pass rushers plus even with Chandler and Nink on the field.

It's still potential, and you can only play 11 at a time, but I see a new defense this year. I think the CBs are going to be OK, linebackers excellent, if healthy and the front seven and safeties potentially very good. I see a lot of swapping of roles amongst the line, linebackers and safeties too.

My prediction is a defense that improves a lot during the year, we'll need to have some patience.

RayClay · Aug 2, 2015

supafly said:
Showing my ignorance on ST related matters just the same, do both Wilson/Ebner both play the same type of role?

I assume that Ebner would play more of a wedge role, but I'm not sure about Wilson. The only reason I bring it up is that I wonder if it may affect the positional battle?

Even if Reiss were writing as much as he used to, he only stated which units guys played on teams, not thier roles.

A little help from the special teams experts? Do Ebner and Wilson duplicate roles, or is one or the other more important?

BobDigital · Aug 2, 2015

supafly said:
Bob Didgy--you sure that Ebner doesn't play the wedge role on ST's?

He would seem to be much better suited to that due to his rugby background, and hybrid ability/size.

I could certainly be wrong, so I'm just asking to gain more info. I would like a clear cut answer on the ST's roles of both Ebner and Wilson, if anyone can provide that. Thanks.

Sorry. I am not that sure about STs. I am pretty sure on kick offs he is one of the gunners though or at least has played that role sometimes cause i know i have seen him there before. Maybe he plays the wedge too as well. I would ask someone else who knows more about it.

PatsBoy12 · Aug 3, 2015

patfanken said:
I have never understood why so many of us have dismissed him so quickly. I could see questioning his durability or even his work ethic. But given is strong rookie year (for a Pats WR). it was much too early for so many fans to simply give up on him.

I hate to sound overly cynical, but that's just the way it seems to be on the board. You're a bum, especially at the wideout, if you don't light it up immediately. I'm certainly not saying Dobson hasn't been a head-scratcher, but I certainly was not going to give up on the kid. He started to come on strong before the injury. I saw enough briefly to know he can make an impact if healthy.

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