From Florio - Interesting commentary on judicial proceedings

Froob said:

What will the haters say when the suspension get overturned? The court was on Krafty Bob's payroll?

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Probably but at that point who really cares.

Patriot Missile said:

I didn't really give it much thought until now. But why is Roger Goodell even involved in this court case? He was the "neutral" arbitrator in the suspension. As far as I'm concerned he is a witness now and nothing more. How can a "neutral" arbitrator be involved when this has moved on to Federal court? I guess because he is the commissioner but what if the NFLPA got Roger to let Tagliabue be the arbitrator? would the proceedings remain the same as in would Brady be sitting in with PT instead of RG aug 12th?

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I know it's assumed, but does the CBA specify a neutral arbitrator?

skinnydog said:

Well that's part of the point he wore all hats and hopefully he will be called out on that. If PT had been the arbitrator he would only be a witness.

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Bobsyouruncle said:

I don't know this judge very well but NYers for the most part hate Brady and are cheering the punishment. If this judge is part of that landscape it's not a very good sign. If he's not, then he isn't a very big part of the landscape.

I just don't understand how you can make the case that someone being a card carrying typical member of a city populated by the people with the most bias against the Patriots is somehow good for the Patriots.

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Also, how much influence do Berman's clerks have and what are their biases?

raduray said:

I know it's assumed, but does the CBA specify a neutral arbitrator?

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I think it specifies "impartial" (well, Labor Law does anyway), but not necessarily "neutral".

They're obviously not the same thing.

I'd be very curious to see why the nfl is so eager to seal these docs

TommyD4207 said:

I think it specifies "impartial" (well, Labor Law does anyway), but not necessarily "neutral".

They're obviously not the same thing.

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In this case, Goodell is neither!

eom said:

I'd be very curious to see why the nfl is so eager to seal these docs

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Or, moreover, why they tried to leak that it was the NFLPA who wanted them sealed.

My guess is, because the appeals hearing went exactly like Kessler said it went in his filing.

Albert Breer ‏@AlbertBreer 18m18 minutes ago

Albert Breer retweeted ProFootballTalk

A couple lawyers I spoke to yesterday were similarly stunned by the court order. Not normal for a judge to do this.

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@AlbertBreer what did they think it meant?

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Albert Breer ‏@AlbertBreer 17m17 minutes ago

Albert Breer retweeted William Wolf

A) That the judge is a sports fan, has been following the case; B) That he'd like to avoid setting precedent here.

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TommyD4207 said:

I think it specifies "impartial" (well, Labor Law does anyway), but not necessarily "neutral".

They're obviously not the same thing.

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So I did what I should have initially, and found the CBA: https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf .
Section 46 addresses Commissioner Discipline and there is nothing about the hearing officer being neutral of impartial. Interestingly, there are earlier sections that address arbitration by a mutually agreed to neutral arbitrator, but they does not seem to apply to Commissioner Discipline.

I know that I have lost my right to appeal for my wife to stop watching Days of our lives after I have been watching As the NFL turns for the last 6 months.

I think Berman thinks this is a ridiculous case, and a waste of his and the courts time. Either the NFL comes to its senses or he will make them do it. All he has to see in court everyday , real crime and injustice and Brady more probably then not going 56 in a 55mph zone is brought to Court by godell ?!!!!

TommyD4207 said:

Or, moreover, why they tried to leak that it was the NFLPA who wanted them sealed.

My guess is, because the appeals hearing went exactly like Kessler said it went in his filing.

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NFLPA should leak that is was Roger and Vincent who deflated the balls .4 psi.

Bobsyouruncle said:

I don't know this judge very well but NYers for the most part hate Brady and are cheering the punishment. If this judge is part of that landscape it's not a very good sign. If he's not, then he isn't a very big part of the landscape.

I just don't understand how you can make the case that someone being a card carrying typical member of a city populated by the people with the most bias against the Patriots is somehow good for the Patriots.

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No. I said that he was as "friendly" a judge as they could have "hoped to get" for the reasons I described.

It might be difficult to understand this for rabid Patriots fans, but there are multitudes of people in New York who really don't think of themselves as part of a "landscape" that includes the Jets and Giants and their beer-soaked followers. In fact, they kind of look down their noses at them. They're actually the kind of people who would love to have a chance to stick it to the "dumb goofs" who get all excited about those teams.

This is a city of 8.4 million people in a metropolitan area of nearly 20 million.

It is, of course, true that some of the "intelligentsia" are rabid sports fans (a lot of them tend to follow the Yankees), but the vast majority of people like Berman really don't follow and certainly aren't passionate about the Giants or Jets and feel they have better things to do with their Sunday afternoons in the fall. If you Google "Richard Berman" and the word "Giants" or "Jets," you get no hits connecting the two. If a prominent jurist like this (who has presided over high visibility proceedings related to terrorism) were an avid fan, it would pop up somewhere.

My brother in law, for example, has an armload of fancy degrees and works directly for a major New York guy whose name you would instantly recognize. He doubtless knows dozens of people who know Berman (if he doesn't know Berman himself, which he probably does) but I had to tell him who Osi Umenyiora was when he came over to my apartment to watch the SB in 2008. Other than the Super Bowl, he doesn't even know the NFL exists. I suspect Berman has a lot more in common with him than he does with Rudy Giuliani who was, for example, an avid Yankees fan.

So, let's not project our world views and passions on others. And, if you're suggesting that a guy like Berman could be influenced by colleagues, friends or neighbors, I think you'd be barking up the wrong tree. If anything, it would have the opposite effect.

nowayback said:

I think Berman thinks this is a ridiculous case, and a waste of his and the courts time. Either the NFL comes to its senses or he will make them do it. All he has to see in court everyday , real crime and injustice and Brady more probably then not going 56 in a 55mph zone is brought to Court by godell ?!!!!

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I hope you're right but it wouldn't surprise me to see that he wants the Pats to give in based on everything that's happened since the AFC championship game

Everyday someone posts how Florio is an idiot. Why is there now a thread about what he thinks about the court proceedings now that they are here? I know not everyone is alike and everyone has an opinion. It's just funny to see a thread that takes him seriously.

On a side note, isn't it crazy it's almost time for the season? In some ways it doesn't even feel like we won the super bowl which is probably what the haters want. I'm gonna go watch butler intercept that ball on YouTube to remind myself how fn awesome we are

Bobsyouruncle said:

I don't know this judge very well but NYers for the most part hate Brady and are cheering the punishment. If this judge is part of that landscape it's not a very good sign. If he's not, then he isn't a very big part of the landscape.

I just don't understand how you can make the case that someone being a card carrying typical member of a city populated by the people with the most bias against the Patriots is somehow good for the Patriots.

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i'm from NY. does that automatically put me in the anti-brady category ?

Interesting -- read Florio's legal analysis and Lester Munson's. It's night and day. One is legal analysis and the other reads like someone who had 10 minutes to get a post out about something he's not studied.

MagicMarker said:

Interesting -- read Florio's legal analysis and Lester Munson's. It's night and day. One is legal analysis and the other reads like someone who had 10 minutes to get a post out about something he's not studied.

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Well, one's an actual lawyer, and the other is Lester Munson.

Rob0729 said:

I just started another thread. Florio thinks Judge Berman has already decided how he is going to rule and basically it looks like he is pressuring the NFL to cave. If he is threatening to unseal the transcripts and the NFLPA and Brady want them unsealed, it seems like a clear warning to Goodell and the NFL.

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None of this can be true. Triumph has assured us that Brady is doomed!