From Florio - Interesting commentary on judicial proceedings

RayClay · Aug 1, 2015

Reportedly the judge spoke with the NFL about their chances, we'll see how goodie responds

Not sure how to interpret that.

shmessy · Aug 1, 2015

Rob0729 said:
I just started another thread. Florio thinks Judge Berman has already decided how he is going to rule and basically it looks like he is pressuring the NFL to cave. If he is threatening to unseal the transcripts and the NFLPA and Brady want them unsealed, it seems like a clear warning to Goodell and the NFL.

I merged 'em. The software automatically puts the first one in first. After the merge Rhody's was shown to be first. Looks like yours was one minute after.

(Full disclosure of all measurements here, unlike the NFL offices!)

Patriot Missile · Aug 1, 2015

Hoodie said:
But you aren't going to get that from this case. This is about whether or not Goodell has violated the CBA and that's not about whether balls were deflated. First steps first, we need to ensure Brady doesn't miss 4 games. Then we work on lifting the veil on what happened with these stupid balls.

Though I agree with you. This case was filed initially by the NFL so it is about upholding the suspension, on paper anyway.

This is a chance for the NFLPA to expose it for what is and negate the suspension.

shmessy · Aug 1, 2015

RhodyPatriot said:
Sorry about that. Didn't see your thread.

Actually, yours was first. It's all good.

Nikolai · Aug 1, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
What if the NFL caves, and then people like Florio and Curran continue to expose the story?

I COULD accept that, except the one thing I'm learning is that movies and TV shows do not imitate real life; when that tenacious reporter finally breaks open the truth behind some big story, and people read it and go "ohhhhhhhhh!!" I think the press could come out with primary sources exposing an NFL sting and people would ignore it, or call it a conspiracy paid for by Brady.

Unfortunately, people's minds are pretty much made up. I hope a defamation suit is on the way from both Brady and the Patriots, the latter of which could be a whopper financially.

skinnydog · Aug 1, 2015

Patriot Missile said:
Though I agree with you. This case was filed initially by the NFL so it is about upholding the suspension, on paper anyway.

This is a chance for the NFLPA to expose it for what is and negate the suspension.

This is true, there really is a lot at stake for the NFLPA and future punishments and proceedings.

perhaps the best part of this is that Goodell has to show up to negotiate as a litigant, that is one of the parties side-by side with Brady and the NFLPA, instead of lording it over them.

Rob0729 · Aug 1, 2015

RhodyPatriot said:
Sorry about that. Didn't see your thread.

Your thread was posted first. So I was the one who was following suit.

XLIX · Aug 1, 2015

Nikolai said:
Unfortunately, people's minds are pretty much made up. I hope a defamation suit is on the way from both Brady and the Patriots, the latter of which could be a whopper financially.

Could this be why the NFL is so insistent on an admission of guilt? I'm no lawyer, but I have to think a public admission of guilt would pretty much eliminate any chance of filing and winning a defamation suit.

I wonder what Brady would do if the NFL said "we will eliminate all punishment, no suspension, no fines, but you have to admit guilt."

I honestly think Brady would refuse that deal on principle.

PatsFanSince74 · Aug 1, 2015

After living in NYC for almost 25 years, my instinct on Judge Berman is that he is as "friendly" a judge as the NFLPA and Brady could have hoped to get, whether in Massachusetts or New York. Even in Massachusetts, they could have ended up with an unfriendly judge in the court room assignment. Trying to file in MN instead of MA when the case was already on the docket in NY was probably a mistake, but, as the old saying goes, "No harm, no foul."

I think the NFL's "preemptive strike" by filing a Motion in the Southern District to have the "Arbiter's" ruling upheld might have been a great in theory, but it looks like it probably backfired on them.

As I said above, I've lived in Manhattan for 25 years. Guys like Berman are part of the landscape; I haven't asked around, but I am sure that I am no more than "one degree of separation" away from him. These guys have lifetimes of NYU disdain for Harvard weasels like Wells. They share a common background (I've learned never to underestimate that in NY!) and speak the same language when it comes to guys like Kessler (who went to Columbia, which, while an Ivy League school, is considered a "New York" school first in this neck of the woods). All of that doesn't say how he's going to rule, but just that Judge Berman isn't the white glove jurist the NFL was hoping to get.

I now suspect that there was little that the NFLPA's attorneys could have done to anticipate the NY Motion by the NFL, but, knowing New Yorkers of a certain ilk, I'm sure there was a lot of screaming and shouting over it between the PA and its attorneys; as I've posted elsewhere, that's one of those things that attorneys and their clients work out when it's time to pay the bill. But the most important thing is, once again, "No harm, no foul."

Patriot Missile · Aug 1, 2015

skinnydog said:
This is true, there really is a lot at stake for the NFLPA and future punishments and proceedings.

perhaps the best part of this is that Goodell has to show up to negotiate as a litigant, that is one of the parties side-by side with Brady and the NFLPA, instead of lording it over them.

I didn't really give it much thought until now. But why is Roger Goodell even involved in this court case? He was the "neutral" arbitrator in the suspension. As far as I'm concerned he is a witness now and nothing more. How can a "neutral" arbitrator be involved when this has moved on to Federal court? I guess because he is the commissioner but what if the NFLPA got Roger to let Tagliabue be the arbitrator? would the proceedings remain the same as in would Brady be sitting in with PT instead of RG aug 12th?

skinnydog · Aug 1, 2015

Patriot Missile said:
I didn't really give it much thought until now. But why is Roger Goodell even involved in this court case? He was the "neutral" arbitrator in the suspension. As far as I'm concerned he is a witness now and nothing more. How can a "neutral" arbitrator be involved when this has moved on to Federal court? I guess because he is the commissioner but what if the NFLPA got Roger to let Tagliabue be the arbitrator? would the proceedings remain the same as in would Brady be sitting in with PT instead of RG aug 12th?

Well that's part of the point he wore all hats and hopefully he will be called out on that. If PT had been the arbitrator he would only be a witness.

Hoodie · Aug 1, 2015

Patriot Missile said:
Though I agree with you. This case was filed initially by the NFL so it is about upholding the suspension, on paper anyway.

This is a chance for the NFLPA to expose it for what is and negate the suspension.

The League filed first to prevent the NFLPA from filing in MN right? It was just a tactical move because essentially they filed a case against their own case.

Froob · Aug 1, 2015

What will the haters say when the suspension get overturned? The court was on Krafty Bob's payroll?

shmessy · Aug 1, 2015

Patriot Missile said:
I didn't really give it much thought until now. But why is Roger Goodell even involved in this court case? He was the "neutral" arbitrator in the suspension. As far as I'm concerned he is a witness now and nothing more. How can a "neutral" arbitrator be involved when this has moved on to Federal court? I guess because he is the commissioner but what if the NFLPA got Roger to let Tagliabue be the arbitrator? would the proceedings remain the same as in would Brady be sitting in with PT instead of RG aug 12th?

Because his lawyers Pash and Aiello were so clearly (now public) stonewalling Robyn Glaser and Stacey James back in February/March regarding the propogation of incorrect data while subsuming correct data in this case.

Goodell is as active player in this as anyone else.

Those emails (hopefully they can fit in to the 15 page, double spaced limit for Kessler to this Judge) are smoking gun.

raduray · Aug 1, 2015

I found Florio's last paragraph interesting: "Eventually, Judge Berman may have to privately inform the side against which he’s inclined to rule that it will either accept the best deal it can get, or it will get nothing and like it". I didn't realize a judge could do that. For you legal beagles, is this common? How does that work?

Bobsyouruncle · Aug 1, 2015

PatsFanSince74 said:
After living in NYC for almost 25 years, my instinct on Judge Berman is that he is as "friendly" a judge as the NFLPA and Brady could have hoped to get, whether in Massachusetts or New York. Even in Massachusetts, they could have ended up with an unfriendly judge in the court room assignment. Trying to file in MN instead of MA when the case was already on the docket in NY was probably a mistake, but, as the old saying goes, "No harm, no foul."

I think the NFL's "preemptive strike" by filing a Motion in the Southern District to have the "Arbiter's" ruling upheld might have been a great in theory, but it looks like it probably backfired on them.

As I said above, I've lived in Manhattan for 25 years. Guys like Berman are part of the landscape; I haven't asked around, but I am sure that I am no more than "one degree of separation" away from him. These guys have lifetimes of NYU disdain for Harvard weasels like Wells. They share a common background (I've learned never to underestimate that in NY!) and speak the same language when it comes to guys like Kessler (who went to Columbia, which, while an Ivy League school, is considered a "New York" school first in this neck of the woods). All of that doesn't say how he's going to rule, but just that Judge Berman isn't the white glove jurist the NFL was hoping to get.

I now suspect that there was little that the NFLPA's attorneys could have done to anticipate the NY Motion by the NFL, but, knowing New Yorkers of a certain ilk, I'm sure there was a lot of screaming and shouting over it between the PA and its attorneys; as I've posted elsewhere, that's one of those things that attorneys and their clients work out when it's time to pay the bill. But the most important thing is, once again, "No harm, no foul."

I don't know this judge very well but NYers for the most part hate Brady and are cheering the punishment. If this judge is part of that landscape it's not a very good sign. If he's not, then he isn't a very big part of the landscape.

I just don't understand how you can make the case that someone being a card carrying typical member of a city populated by the people with the most bias against the Patriots is somehow good for the Patriots.

Rusty Coupe · Aug 1, 2015

If the judge decides to give the NFL* even a partial victory everyone else loses. This would give Godell precedent in court to run wild with his 'more likely than not' on everything.

eom · Aug 1, 2015

Hoodie said:
The League filed first to prevent the NFLPA from filing in MN right? It was just a tactical move because essentially they filed a case against their own case.

yeah, it was very weird, and I had no idea it could be done, but they supposedly filed asking for a court to back their ruling.
they really did it because they knew when the decision would be announced, they were afraid of doty in minny, and first file gets some leverage on venue.

so, you can file where you want, but after that you get who you get.

DarrylS · Aug 1, 2015

Perhaps Judge Berman sees this extension of silly season and wants the NFL to come to their senses..

To write a no more than 15 page double spaced brief will be the hardest part.. attorneys are not used to limits such as this, they love to go on and on and on and on.

eom · Aug 1, 2015

Bobsyouruncle said:
I don't know this judge very well but NYers for the most part hate Brady and are cheering the punishment. If this judge is part of that landscape it's not a very good sign. If he's not, then he isn't a very big part of the landscape.

I just don't understand how you can make the case that someone being a card carrying typical member of a city populated by the people with the most bias against the Patriots is somehow good for the Patriots.

maybe the guy's actually ethical and responsible and not even a football fan.
also, maybe this is why he's pressuring them to settle on their own, so he doesn't have to attach his name to any of this.

From Florio - Interesting commentary on judicial proceedings

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