You want action? Kraft has a PLAN

I think a good place to start would be to put a limit on Goodell's authority for one of his annual fishing expeditions with Ted Wells. Every year Roger is either trying to get his own butt out of some crack he got himself into, or tries to make a minor infraction like Bountygate into some spectacular failed PR stunt that cost the owners millions.

Force Godell to go to the owners to authorize any money for any type of investigation, and make the process tedious enough that he has to get a sign off for everything right down to buying staples and copier paper.

As time goes by I find myself wondering more and more: where is frigging Hercules when you need him?

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/Herakles/stables.html

AndyJohnson said:

This has always been obvious to me.
Who is the nemesis of the owners? The players and the NFLPA. The only threat to their pocketbook is the players and CBA negotiations and the split of the money.
They have very successfully held them down by negotiation CBAs that put Roger Goodell in power over them. What will the next CBA be about? Goodell or money? See the point?
By Kraft challenging Goodell he usurps his authority. If an owner can challenge Goodell surely players can.
Kraft was told that weakening Goodell weakens the 32 by weakening the stranglehold they have over the NFLPA.
I thought this was obvious

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I hope go God you are correct and it isn't some kind of thing the Pats have done in the past that Goodell is holding over their head. Thanks for giving me a logical explanation that DOESN'T include another "gate":

Raymond said:

Nice Pipe dream. But it will not happen as long as other owners like Mara believe and claim there is a mountain of evidence on Brady and the Pats.

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Perhaps. But you missed the point (and the other owners may miss it as well) - this isn't about the evidence, it's about the process.

I read the NFLPA complaint and, as a generally pro-business person, was outraged by the actions of the NFL. How could you not be? Will the NFL owners bury their heads in the sand as one of their own and his team (and they could be next) gets disciplined in a process that would seem corrupt even by the standards of a third world country? Maybe. But I haven't lost total faith in the billionaires club yet.

Remember this - a fair and impartial investigation of the league WAS PROMISED and then WAS ACKNOWLEDGED BY THE LEAGUE TO HAVE NOT HAPPENED.

I think this is huge. I believe that Kraft will only ask that the league do what they already agreed to do - and that it truly be impartial. That evidence that the league needs to do this is overwhelming (to those not closing their eyes and humming loudly). I think it's a reasonable shot that a majority of the owners would agree that such an investigation is worth carrying out.

At any rate, the basic point was not what the owners would agree to; it's what Kraft will attempt.

Wax Frog said:

As time goes by I find myself wondering more and more: where is frigging Hercules when you need him?

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/Herakles/stables.html

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He's cue'd in line wondering if the bank is still solvent

SVN said:

Kraft lost all leverage when he accepted the penalties. He can say and probably meant it that it was for the greater good and to get it over with .But in reality he accepted his franchise cheated and his QB is involved by accepting it. If you are 100% sure about your franchise's innocence and feel that cheating accusations effect your brand and player why accept anything ? I know its easy for me to say because I dont know inner workings or lack of legal options he had but that is my opinion at least.

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he never had any leverage, which is why he accepted.

pretty sure I remember him saying what a great job roger was doing when he was sticking it to dallas and wash on that salary dump, so how do you think jerry feels about this?
there's a lot of teams, so maybe he even has a few allies on this, but there's a solid bloc of teams that think all this is just peachy.

SVN said:

Because he still beleives its goodell's minions and not goodell who caused this mess and in an arbitration held by goodell himself he will be reasonable and fair. In other words, kraft is blind and clueless.

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Yeah, I don't get how he absolves Goodell who's the captain of this ship of fools.

TruthSeeker said:

Perhaps. But you missed the point (and the other owners may miss it as well) - this isn't about the evidence, it's about the process.

I read the NFLPA complaint and, as a generally pro-business person, was outraged by the actions of the NFL. How could you not be? Will the NFL owners bury their heads in the sand as one of their own and his team (and they could be next) gets disciplined in a process that would seem corrupt even by the standards of a third world country? Maybe. But I haven't lost total faith in the billionaires club yet.

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no
they'll put out a picnic spread and enjoy the lynching

you really think the patriots losing a first round pick is objectionable to these other teams?

Yup, Kraft was content to praise Goodell's job when Goodell's was busy elfin' up other teams business but now that its happening to him, I wonder why in the world he would ever expect universal support. It just doesn't look very good to be like, hey wait, now its me and this is totally unfair! It was screwed up all the other times too, Bob.

His utter love and devotion for that idiot Commissioner that he helped put there has helped bring this about.

I admire your belief in the ideal and honest outcome, but I too am a little weary of how this will end. I'm still optimistic though. I just believe this will have ramifications later on once Roger has screwed over another owner and hopefully Kraft's relentless pursuit of sweet vengeance on all those that conspired this whole sham.

fair catch fryar said:

I admire your belief in the ideal and honest outcome, but I too am a little weary of how this will end. I'm still optimistic though. I just believe this will have ramifications later on once Roger has screwed over another owner and hopefully Kraft's relentless pursuit of sweet vengeance on all those that conspired this whole sham.

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it already is what it is at this point, any change through the judge would be gravy.

my biggest concern is if they can do this just off a guy playing in 45 degrees wtf other shenanigans would they be willing to stoop to?
they could make up any kind of nonsense claim anytime they wanted to stick it to belichick, the pats, or whoever.

patfanken said:

I hope go God you are correct and it isn't some kind of thing the Pats have done in the past that Goodell is holding over their head. Thanks for giving me a logical explanation that DOESN'T include another "gate":

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The patriots are punished for things they don't do. How could there be something they did that was overlooked?

patfanken said:

What a great effort by you TS. I could feel the adrenaline rising with every great point you made. And then there was the nagging question that we can't seem to answer, at leas to my satisfaction.

Why did Bob Kraft fold in May???????

He knew about the emails. He knew about all the holes in the Welles report. He knew the NFL was violating the CBA in the process. He knew that this was merely a witch hunt perpetrated by a small cabal of Pats haters within the ownership and league offices. So WHY then, with an overwhelming amount of evidence on HIS side, did Robert Kraft accept the league's penalties in May. What in the world did Goodell say to him that could have possibly moved him off his rock solid position.

I don't believe it was because "he could get a better deal for Brady". WTF is a "better deal" when nothing but complete exoneration taints Tom's legacy forever. He had sure win and gave it away, and for WHAT?

You make a STRONG case for the Pats, but until I know what Goodell said to Kraft that May day, I will have questions. Not about the Pats' and Brady's innocence in this case. That's been made clear. But rather what OTHER thing did Goodell hold over Kraft's head that made him make the worst decision of his ownership.

THAT is the question that anyone who is a fan of the Pats wants to know

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Do you mean he should have rejected the penalty, then selected a player in the first round next year and walked up to the podium and announced the name while another team was actually drafting someone?

RelocatedPatFan said:

Mara, Jones, and Snyder aren't the ones Kraft needs to work with. It's the others who would become more like the Florida Marlins should the NFL lose their exempt status and we have a league that has a salary structure more like baseball.

In that scenario, Kraft also wins and wins big. Might be time for the "32" to take long view of what's going on here before the narrative and control is taken away from them. and yes, 1 of the 32 could possibly do that.

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Bingo!

RelocatedPatFan said:

Mara, Jones, and Snyder aren't the ones Kraft needs to work with. It's the others who would become more like the Florida Marlins should the NFL lose their exempt status and we have a league that has a salary structure more like baseball.

In that scenario, Kraft also wins and wins big. Might be time for the "32" to take long view of what's going on here before the narrative and control is taken away from them. and yes, 1 of the 32 could possibly do that.

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The owners have backed Goodell and therefore ceded any chance that the next CBA will be negotiated rather than end up in court. It's not only the NFLPA that will be looking for major changes, but also the big market owners over the 8 or 9 little guys.

hwc said:

I have felt since the Wells Report was release that this would eventually lead to the Kraft family selling the NE Patriots and wiping their hands of the whole mess.

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I don't think it's a bad supposition at all. Not sure why people disagree with you.

The Krafts, if they fight for their fans, will become persona non grata in the NFL.

At that point, they will try to sell. But if they don't get absolute top dollar, the NFL better worry about a lawsuit to the brand.

This almost happened in the NBA with Donald Sterling and the Clippers. He was bailed out by a bozo who paid billions. But if he was forced to sell for less than any reasonable price, he was coming after the NBA.

In thinking through all the moves in terms of game theory, I came to a point about half the time where the Krafts sold the team.

I don't think what you wrote is implausible at all. They aren't going to stick around Al Davis-like if they are ostracized.

patfanken said:

I hope go God you are correct and it isn't some kind of thing the Pats have done in the past that Goodell is holding over their head. Thanks for giving me a logical explanation that DOESN'T include another "gate":

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I think the reverse may be true. Behind the scenes, owners may think that Goodell has poisoned the next CBA negotiation so badly that he has already cost them future billions.

It really does mean something that Paul Tagliabue would so heavily criticize Goodell in public. It means a lot.

Dr Pain said:

Bob and Jonathan screwed Jones and supported Goodell putting penalties against the Cowboys for salary cap violations in a year when there was no salary cap. This is just Jones getting payback. Kraft is somewhat responsible for all this as he is the one who paved the way for Goodell and nurtured him.

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As much as it sickens me to come to the defense of the league, no one screwed over Jerry Jones (or Daniel Snyder) in that situation. When the uncapped year hit, teams were basically told "you can spend whatever you want this year, but any signing bonuses you give to players this year will hit the cap in future years like normal. Furthermore, you can not front-load a long term contract so heavily so that you are using 2010 salary in lieu of a signing bonus. If you do that, then we will consider that salary to be a signing bonus once the cap is back in place."

So what did the Cowboys do? They gave Miles Austin a 7 year, $54M contract, which was really a 4 year, $25M contract. Of that $25 million, $17 million was fully guaranteed on signing to be paid in his first year salary (there was no signing bonus).

Once the salary cap returned, the Cowboys were penalized a cap hit of $10 million, which is roughly what the year 2, 3, and 4 cap hit of the Austin contract would have been if that was your typical contract with a signing bonus.

TL;DR version: F Jerry Jones. He pulled a fast one and had a salary cap hit which he would have had anyway. He should shut up because the Patriots did nothing wrong here.

eom said:

no
they'll put out a picnic spread and enjoy the lynching

you really think the patriots losing a first round pick is objectionable to these other teams?

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No, not really. But I think that the process by which it happened would scare them - if they were willing to actually look at it.

Perhaps this is my overreach but the missing ingredient in all of the discussion is BB, going back to when he left the Jets and Mike Kensil was director of Operations there.. they got a 1st round pick, but that does not relieve the pain of the hemorrhoids(aka BB) ..

In 2007 BB fell on the sword at the urging of Mr. Kraft and another 1st round pick was lost..

Last January as Kensil roamed the sidelines and told the Pats equipment manager.. “We weighed the balls. You are in big f—— trouble.”

Everything since than has been fulfilling the prophecy of Kensil.. if he leaked the info to Mort, he probably leaked info to Steven A Smith and Kravitz..

I still cannot believe that this has become such a big deal, and the intended target is BB.. there is so much vitriol for that man from the Offices of the NFL...

Cannot believe that Goodell has not told Kensil to back off and go work on stuff on the West Coast or something, otoh if he was not here who would be the f... up????

Despite their best efforts the Patriots are not supposed to be this successful.. no team in the modern era has been this successful.. and the Jets flounder.

Cannot wait for the smear campaign when BB becomes eligible for the NFL Hall of Fame.. they will be leaking information left and right about his nefarious practices.