Kessler outlines NFLPA's appeal

Fencer said:

Judge Doty found that under law, there were limitations on Goodell's power, notwithstanding the card the NFL will try to play. That opinion has been appealed. Also, it's not binding as precedent on Judge Berman.

All that said -- while I am not a lawyer, and in all my years of business I've rarely been in a labor law situation, I lean strongly to Kessler's and Doty's views. There are minimum standards of fairness in labor law, period, perhaps unless they're waived a lot more explicitly than I think they were in the CBA, or unless they are inapplicable for some other reason.

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Yep and Goody has taken the CBA framework on due process and fairness and wiped his bum with it.

This is why i feel brady has a solid case to win this. For all the people and lawyers saying "the courts dont like to overturn these types of decisions" there are two problems to their argument.

1. They wont turn it over if all employer in this case the nfl followed all the protocols agreed to by the employee.

2. The courts HAVE sided against the nfl EVERY TIME so far because the NFL repeatedly doesnt follow the rules of the cba and does whatever they want.

Tgink of this not as brady vs. The nfl but johnny the worker against a big corporation. Big corporation tells him they are investigating him but dont need his phone. And use their lawyer as an independent investigator. Johnny says ok and provides them with all information. Employer says johnny was generally aware that something bad may or may not have happened and punish him. He appeals and his punishment is held up because he didnt give them his phone. Emplyer fails to tell johnny he would be punished for not turning over the phone he was not asked to provide.

This is how the courts will look at it. If the NFL wins that is scary for not only NFL players but employees anywhere. Goodell despite having NO subpoena power can investigate say leveon bell for suspicion he is smoking weed. Asks him for his phone and he says no. Then boom commissioner says that means he is guilty despite his test coming up negative and suspends him for non cooperation instead.

This is why i feel the nfl will lose this. They didnt follow the cba at all. Goodell rules by public opinion not the rules agreed to which is why his verdicts are regularly overturned

Guys, the truth is that none of us are able to accurately judge how this will go. Even labor law experts are unsure which side has the upper hand.

Bobsyouruncle said:

The league accused Brady of cheating. When they failed to show that, they punished him for failing to provide evidence that he cheated.

It's rock solid Goodell logic.

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btw, Goodell takes another beating this AM: http://spectator.org/articles/63636/roger-goodell’s-jedi-mind-trick

the fundamental problem with the way the NFL does things when they wind up in a real courtroom is the arbitrary nature decisions get made and the lack of belief that one person can carry that out in a reasonable manner.

goodell just wants to squash whatever he doesn't like without a defined process, and the real courts just don't like that.

Fencer said:

It made a BS argument, yet it convinced a lot of people, including a few not entirely biased ones.

This suggests that it was well-written indeed.

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Goodell's "response" convinced no one who wasn't already "convinced" that Brady was guilty. Let's get real here.

DaBruinz said:

Goodell's "response" convinced no one who wasn't already "convinced" that Brady was guilty. Let's get real here.

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Ya if those "unbiased" people were convinced by the idiot's response then the NFLPA's petition would have them at the very least undecided right now.

Fencer said:

And the previous decision not to give them the phone in the first place. And the Pats' refusal not to let McNally testify yet again. And Brady not bringing McNally or Jastremski to the appeal. And the presumption that Brady/Jastremski talks right after the AFCC had something to do with a coverup.

And of course Brady not confessing to a long list of offenses he didn't actually commit.

That this all makes no sense doesn't contradict my claim that it's the main story the NFL is telling ...

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1st off - They said they didn't want or need the phone. So this supposed refusal to give it to them doesn't matter one bit. Nor the fact that the phone was cycled out.. It's a red herring..

2nd - How can they penalize BRADY for what the team did??

3rd - Had you read the brief, the league didn't allow them to bring witnesses to the appeal. Not with only 4 hours to present their case.. It only changed after it came out how the league was railroading the situation..

DaBruinz said:

Goodell's "response" convinced no one who wasn't already "convinced" that Brady was guilty. Let's get real here.

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That's not strictly accurate, based on what I saw on another message board.

DaBruinz said:

1st off - They said they didn't want or need the phone. So this supposed refusal to give it to them doesn't matter one bit. Nor the fact that the phone was cycled out.. It's a red herring..

2nd - How can they penalize BRADY for what the team did??

3rd - Had you read the brief, the league didn't allow them to bring witnesses to the appeal. Not with only 4 hours to present their case.. It only changed after it came out how the league was railroading the situation..

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Had you read my post, you wouldn't have written what I bolded. And my post was a lot shorter than the brief.

Fencer said:

That's not strictly accurate, based on what I saw on another message board.

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ROFLMAO.. Based on another board???? Seriously??

Fencer said:

Had you read my post, you wouldn't have written what I bolded. And my post was a lot shorter than the brief.

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I read your ridiculous post. Maybe you should work on your verbiage a bit if you meant something other than what you actually said..

robertweathers said:

The card the NFL will play again and again and again is that the CBA stipulates that the commissioner has the right to arbitrate, enforce and dictate player punishment. The players agreed to this.

With that said, the process in which the commissioner follows is that of the wild west.

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Good thing for Godell and the NFL's case that there have been no judges/arbitrators that smacked him/them down on their implicit and complete power to determine punishment (and guilt?).

TheBostonStraggler said:

Good thing for Godell and the NFL's case that there have been no judges/arbitrators that smacked him/them down on their implicit and complete power to determine punishment (and guilt?).

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Hes lost in federal court many times which is why I am optimistic. The issue is that the NFLPA hasn't asked/pushed for an amendment to the CBA calling for a more transparent, less draconian process. IE- there is no teeth to bite the NFL if it screws up.

robertweathers said:

Hes lost in federal court many times which is why I am optimistic. The issue is that the NFLPA hasn't asked/pushed for an amendment to the CBA calling for a more transparent, less draconian process. IE- there is no teeth to bite the NFL if it screws up.

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The precedents do pile up though. It's not as clean as an amendment, obviously, but it's something.

DaBruinz said:

I read your ridiculous post. Maybe you should work on your verbiage a bit if you meant something other than what you actually said..

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I meant exactly what I said.

I assumed that its readers would be people of at least average intelligence and good will. Admittedly, on a board as popular as this one, that assumption is not 100% accurate.

DaBruinz said:

ROFLMAO.. Based on another board???? Seriously??

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Again I say -- learn to read. Also, learn to think.

Unless you believe that human beings don't post on any board than this one, your response makes no sense.

DaBruinz said:

3rd - Had you read the brief, the league didn't allow them to bring witnesses to the appeal. Not with only 4 hours to present their case.. It only changed after it came out how the league was railroading the situation..

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....and they *****ed that McNally and Jaz weren't there.

Yee is right- that appeals hearing was a complete sham.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...l-in-court-legal-experts-say-its-a-long-shot/

Differing opinions on bradys chances. All dependent on a judges opinion.

Fencer said:

Again I say -- learn to read. Also, learn to think.

Unless you believe that human beings don't post on any board than this one, your response makes no sense.

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My response makes plenty of sense. Maybe you should learn to read and think because clearly you don't.