No NFL fan should be ok with this…

BTTA · Jul 26, 2015

Joker said:
I ARCHIVED that clip on my hard drive. Go ahead, try to find the clip today...it's gone..cleansed...but all you old timers here know EXACTLY the clip I'm talking about.

I will mash this clip in every ESPN sonuva*****'s face I see broadcasting from Patriot Place. I'll wave the written responses I got from questionnaires I sent out to his high school classmates about his team allegiance as a three sport star at Bronxville High in EASTERN ,NY.

Joker, I hope you've got multiple forms of backup...duplicate hard drives at home, plus a couple of cloud backup services.

PatsSox363804 · Jul 26, 2015

Rob0729 said:
People are shortsighted. They don't get that what the league is doing to Brady and the Patriots could be done to another team. Some owners are saying, we got slammed by Goodell in the past (like Dallas and Washington for spending in an uncapped year or Bountygate) and now it is payback to see another team get it. Other owners are just happy the Pats are being punished and not realizing they could end up getting a similiar unjust punishment in the future. Fans around the league just hate the Pats and are happy they are being punished no matter if it is fair or not.

To go one level beyond that, you have fanbases like ours and like the Saints who have had this happen to them but still eat up the official narrative when it comes to another team. The media is great with their brainwashing. I've mentioned how bountygate was a farce to several saints fans to try and show them they need to look deeper into this case and for the most part they think I'm crazy and believe the official company line.

Brewskies · Jul 27, 2015

DarrylS said:
You do not know that he hasn't, not everything is televised...

True, but from a PR stand point it would only improve Kraft's image so why not speak up if he did reguest a decision now.

PATS16N0 · Jul 27, 2015

The majority of fans want Brady suspended because they don't care about the integrity of the game, and have no integrity themselves.

Tom Brady being suspended for four games gives teams like Denver, the Bills, Miami, etc etc, a better shot at a top seed or a division trophy.

The majority of fans around the country are essentially cheaters for wanting Tom suspended and tarnished for nothing. I don't care what they think. They're too small now to hear or see.

Go Pats.

#4rings

Roboturner913 · Jul 30, 2015

PatsSox363804 said:
To go one level beyond that, you have fanbases like ours and like the Saints who have had this happen to them but still eat up the official narrative when it comes to another team. The media is great with their brainwashing. I've mentioned how bountygate was a farce to several saints fans to try and show them they need to look deeper into this case and for the most part they think I'm crazy and believe the official company line.

The overwhelming majority Saints fans would be happy to see the league burn to the ground. I've read plenty of sentiments saying this whole thing is a cooked-up witch hunt and how ridiculous it is.

But at the end of the day, it boils down to this: We (the fans) were so poorly treated by the other fans in the league and the media throughout Bountygate. It started before that because people were tired of hearing the "Katrina" storyline or whatever. Bountygate just gave them a free license to spew all-out hatred. People in comment sections and message boards said unconscionable things - they are stupid, inbred, redneck, etc. I wish their entire city had wiped out by Katrina, armpit of humanity - at one point a prominent Carolina Panthers blog had the phrase "they are animals." Completely disgusting bigotry and flat-out racist things were said every day, and why, because we actually questioned the word of the almighty NFL. And we it turned out we were actually right, where were the apologies? It went practically unacknowledged.

That leaves a bitter taste. So you'll forgive Saints fans for not particularly caring what happens to the rest of the league. We have become the most insular group of fans in sports for good reason.

As for myself I think this whole deflategate is absolutely the most absurd thing I've ever heard of, certainly not worthy of all the attention it's been given, certainly not worthy of a 4-game suspension, etc. But I can't say I'm surprised that it happened, because things like this will continue to happen as long as Goodell is around. I hope fans around the league start coming to their senses finally, I really do. I'm just too bitter to really care about anybody else's team though.

lillloyd · Jul 30, 2015

Froob said:
Weren't they though? I thought it was just that Goodell didn't have the evidence to deal the punishments he did. And punishing the players was over the top for what the coaches told them to do.

The Saints got the rawest deal of them all, IMHO. I'm on record here as saying the underlying 'crime' in DGate is way, way overblown....But IIRC the Saints actually had less than average personal foul penalties as a team that year. Yet they had a guy suspended for 8 games (Hargrove) for 'obstruction', and Payton got the entire year when the league acknowledged he had no knowledge of the bounties. Could you imagine the outrage here if BB was suspended under the "ignorance is no excuse" standard applied to the Saints?(!)

I'm in total agreement with the general spirit of this thread -- that Goodell has vast, unchecked powers which he abuses regularly, and without any consistency.

But I think it misses the boat in one respect - the Pats are neither the first team, nor the only team, to get a hugely questionable verdict handed down to them from the league. If you believe that the Patriots are somehow being singled out, I humbly submit that you haven't been paying close attention (and frankly, why would you if it was happening to another team? It's human nature to know the details of your own team's struggles, and only the broadest outlines of any others...this is true of every fan base).

The current Pats' debacle is just a symptom of the NFL's long-standing disciplinary 'structure' with Goodell at the helm. There has been no transparency or consistency from the start; penalties have been levied largely in line with public perception and the level of PR hit to the NFL brand, rather than any sound underlying process.

FWIW, the NFLPA--along with nearly every NFL team (including the Pats)--ceded this level of authority to Goodell during the last round of the CBA talks. Pittsburgh was the only team that voted against the ratification (they were outvoted 31-1). I certainly don't think that the Steelers were somehow more prescient or wise than other teams...it just so happened that in that era, Pittsburgh was more aware, as it was taking the brunt of Goodell's wayward rulings. I'm sure that for other fan bases (including here on this board...it's just the way these things go), those rulings were celebrated as measured justice, rather than the wayward, which-way-does-the-wind-blow approach that actually served as their underpinnings.

Here's what Ryan Clark had to say about that agreement in 2011...sound familiar?

"How often did you hear (former commissioner) Paul Tagliabue's name throughout the season?" Clark said. "I think (Goodell has) decided to make himself a major part of this game. I don't know if he had some type of high school dreams or Pop Warner dreams of being an NFL football player, but he's made himself the NFL. He is the most popular -- or infamous -- commissioner in sports right now, you know? Maybe that's what he wanted to be. We know he doesn't work for us, he doesn't work with us."

"We feel like someone else should be on there; there should be some ... type of way -- actually someone who's not on the NFL payroll," Clark said. "A big issue, for us, especially, as a team, is Roger Goodell ... being judge, jury and appeals system."

RelocatedPatFan · Jul 30, 2015

I wonder what Ryan Clark says now that he is ESPN.

lillloyd · Jul 30, 2015

RelocatedPatFan said:
I wonder what Ryan Clark says now that he is ESPN.

A common enemy makes strange bedfellows. I'm sure on this issue he remains 100% against Goodell.

fair catch fryar · Jul 30, 2015

Meh....I have come to the conclusion that NO media is to be trusted. The masses are spoonfed their news in daily blasts of opinion and sensationalism and say it must be true without questioning it. It doesn't surprise me that the Pats are viewed this way. Haters hate.

IllegalContact · Jul 30, 2015

15 years is a long time to be looking up at the Pats........The Pats as well as us fans come across as arrogant.......our team is a winner and the rest are envious........it's mostly the division, raiders, broncos, colts, ravens, and steelers.........the ravens must be seething.......the 2 pats playoffs wins were ones they could taste....tuck rule will have raider fans crying forever......steelers and colts have been beaten pretty bad for the most part......broncos, but their fans have been quite....probably because of legal pot

Soul_Survivor88 · Jul 30, 2015

I truly believe that the NFL is the most corrupt sports corporation there is in America...and I have seriously come to consider that it might be in my best interest to stop watching football entirely

But at the end of the day, I just want justice to prevail. And if Tom Brady is going to tough this one out, then perhaps I should as well

Patriot Missile · Jul 30, 2015

To be honest I only started following BountyGate just recently. I really didn't care and like many have asserted. You don't care unless it is happening to you.

This is one of Sally's sticking points in that whole deflategate blog she has. She's not a Patriots fans, she's a Texans fan. But she is aware,not only because she cares about law and probably finds interest in the case, but she knows and understands that her team could be next. The violations are so blatant and she is surprised no one else can see it or cares. Basically it is an awareness part of her blog and it's not just for Pats fans.

Froob · Jul 30, 2015

lillloyd said:
The Saints got the rawest deal of them all, IMHO. I'm on record here as saying the underlying 'crime' in DGate is way, way overblown....But IIRC the Saints actually had less than average personal foul penalties as a team that year. Yet they had a guy suspended for 8 games (Hargrove) for 'obstruction', and Payton got the entire year when the league acknowledged he had no knowledge of the bounties. Could you imagine the outrage here if BB was suspended under the "ignorance is no excuse" standard applied to the Saints?(!)

I'm in total agreement with the general spirit of this thread -- that Goodell has vast, unchecked powers which he abuses regularly, and without any consistency.

But I think it misses the boat in one respect - the Pats are neither the first team, nor the only team, to get a hugely questionable verdict handed down to them from the league. If you believe that the Patriots are somehow being singled out, I humbly submit that you haven't been paying close attention (and frankly, why would you if it was happening to another team? It's human nature to know the details of your own team's struggles, and only the broadest outlines of any others...this is true of every fan base).

The current Pats' debacle is just a symptom of the NFL's long-standing disciplinary 'structure' with Goodell at the helm. There has been no transparency or consistency from the start; penalties have been levied largely in line with public perception and the level of PR hit to the NFL brand, rather than any sound underlying process.

FWIW, the NFLPA--along with nearly every NFL team (including the Pats)--ceded this level of authority to Goodell during the last round of the CBA talks. Pittsburgh was the only team that voted against the ratification (they were outvoted 31-1). I certainly don't think that the Steelers were somehow more prescient or wise than other teams...it just so happened that in that era, Pittsburgh was more aware, as it was taking the brunt of Goodell's wayward rulings. I'm sure that for other fan bases (including here on this board...it's just the way these things go), those rulings were celebrated as measured justice, rather than the wayward, which-way-does-the-wind-blow approach that actually served as their underpinnings.

Here's what Ryan Clark had to say about that agreement in 2011...sound familiar?

"How often did you hear (former commissioner) Paul Tagliabue's name throughout the season?" Clark said. "I think (Goodell has) decided to make himself a major part of this game. I don't know if he had some type of high school dreams or Pop Warner dreams of being an NFL football player, but he's made himself the NFL. He is the most popular -- or infamous -- commissioner in sports right now, you know? Maybe that's what he wanted to be. We know he doesn't work for us, he doesn't work with us."

"We feel like someone else should be on there; there should be some ... type of way -- actually someone who's not on the NFL payroll," Clark said. "A big issue, for us, especially, as a team, is Roger Goodell ... being judge, jury and appeals system."

Patriots have gotten screwed over the most times though. Spygate was a huge overreaction to a camera being in the wrong place and the rulebook actually allowed it to be there but Roger sent out a memo with something different and BB blew it off. Yeah there's a huge problem in how much power they gave Goodell but it's obvious the dude has favorites. He could at least be consistent with his rulings. It seems like the Ravens, Jets, and Colts can do whatever they want. ESPECIALLY the Jets which is interesting because of how many former Jets are in the league office. Keep an open mind and take a look at the fact here's...here's what the Jets have gotten away with

-Tampering with Deion Branch, DeSean Jackson, Brandon Marshall, and Darelle Revis

-The original tripgate, one of the most blanant and obvious cheating ever in Goodell's era. Let the Jets do their own internal investigation and punishment. No other team has ever been allowed this.

-Taping the Patriots from an illegal area in 2006.

-Tampering with a ball vs the Patriots in 2009.

-Patriot ball was inflated up to 16 psi in a game vs the Jets last season. Not saying the Jets did this but it's certainly interesting this was ignored and nobody asked any questions.

-Braylon Edwards no suspension for DUI.

Then we have Ravens' bountygate that Suggs admitted he did and the league conspiring with Goodell to cover up for Ray Rice and Ray Lewis antlergate that nobody bothered to look into. The Colts noisegate was never investigated nor was complaints by the Jags that the Colts ball boys were keeping deflating needles up their sleeves (the irony lol).

Then (and no offense) but tripgate 2.0 was the most obvious cheating I have ever seen. Considering the punishments the Patriots and Saints have endured (and not saying this is what I think is fair I'm saying if punishments were consistent) Tomlin would have been suspended at least a year and the Steelers docked 1st and 4th round picks. Instead just a fine.

If Goodell isn't going to be fair he has to at least be consistent. Why wasn't the Falcons noisegate a huge investigation with leaks all over the media on how the Falcons have sabotaged the integrity of the game? Sorry for the huge rant but it makes sports hard to watch when crap like this happens. You're one of the better visitors on this board so don't mean to single out the Steelers but it's hard to believe tripgate 2.0 didn't become a big deal with all these considered. And I do thank Rooney for trying to vote against that. Kraft deserves a lot of flak for pushing that deal. Hopefully the players are willing to lose a season next time instead of accepting a horrific CBA.

Observer · Jul 30, 2015

No just football fan but any employee in America should not be okay with this. If they are, there may come a day when their employer asks for their private phone and email because they suspect they knew that their colleague was stealing company property but there was nothing missing. And they get fired for refusing. This is ****ing craaaazy!

ausbacker · Jul 30, 2015

I had no idea as to the extent of the corruption in the NFL until Deflategate. Spygate, Bountygate, Bullygate, and the habitual abuse of power should really have tipped me off to that fact. I assumed there was a degree of corruption but not like this.

I've defended Goodell's business record however, I simply will not defend any aspect of his performance. He is as corrupt an official as I have ever seen.

grux · Jul 30, 2015

ausbacker said:
I had no idea as to the extent of the corruption in the NFL until Deflategate. Spygate, Bountygate, Bullygate, and the habitual abuse of power should really have tipped me off to that fact. I assumed there was a degree of corruption but not like this.

I've defended Goodell's business record however, I simply will not defend any aspect of his performance. He is as corrupt an official as I have ever seen.

I am guilty as well of having my head in the sand in regards to how Goodell has abused his power. I wasn't a member of this forum when Spygate went down, so I assumed we were guilty. I also didn't properly educate myself on how the bountygate situation was handled. However, I have read everything in regards to deflategate and can't be more disappointed in ALL of the NFL owners. They should be embarrassed with how Goodell is managing the NFL office. Goodell and his henchmen are drunk with power, have no integrity, are corrupt and can't be trusted. The only reason why I will continue to watch NFL games is because I believe in the players. The business end of the NFL is nothing but a smoke show.

Brady_to_Moss · Jul 30, 2015

Lots of...i mean LOTS of NFL fans absolutely love this..they hate use becasue we win...

NashuaPats · Jul 30, 2015

No one should be ok with this. You have an unpopular commissioner making an unfounded claim against the biggest star in the league. A player who 31 out of 32 fans actively root against as he has consistently been beating their favorite teams for too long. The unpopular commissioner pays millions to a hired gun prosecutor to dig up any evidence to support this claim who the unpopular commissioner claims to be "independent" while leaking lies to the press. When the hired gun prosecutor pieces together a few out of context circumstantial text messages and some flimsy facts, the unpopular commissioner acts as judge and jury and rules him to be guilty. The people cheer, or at least 31/32 of the people cheer. When intelligent people including respected scientists pick apart the evidence and the player appeals, the unpopular commissioner appoints himself as arbitrator and rules him again to be guilty while pointing to completely irrelevant info. The people again cheer, at least 31 out 32 of the people. The unpopular commissioner is now feeling a little popular.

The people or at least 31/32 of the people love this. They know it's not right, but they don't care. It's just sports, it's just entertainment. That player is a millionaire living a charmed life, so who cares. It doesn't matter that he's a real person who has done nothing wrong. F him, this is fun.

I honestly cannot believe this is happening, not in my country. That innocent until proven guilty concept has been thrown out the window, at least in the NFL. No one should be ok with this. Yet, 31/32 people are cheering. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. I wish I knew my history better. Does this most resemble fascist Italy, communist Russia, communist China, or Nazi Germany... or perhaps the movie Idiocracy? I don't know, but I'm disgusted and saddened. I just can't believe this is happening for real. No one should be ok with this.

lillloyd · Jul 30, 2015

Froob said:
Patriots have gotten screwed over the most times though. Spygate was a huge overreaction to a camera being in the wrong place and the rulebook actually allowed it to be there but Roger sent out a memo with something different and BB blew it off. Yeah there's a huge problem in how much power they gave Goodell but it's obvious the dude has favorites. He could at least be consistent with his rulings. It seems like the Ravens, Jets, and Colts can do whatever they want. ESPECIALLY the Jets which is interesting because of how many former Jets are in the league office. Keep an open mind and take a look at the fact here's...here's what the Jets have gotten away with

-Tampering with Deion Branch, DeSean Jackson, Brandon Marshall, and Darelle Revis

-The original tripgate, one of the most blanant and obvious cheating ever in Goodell's era. Let the Jets do their own internal investigation and punishment. No other team has ever been allowed this.

-Taping the Patriots from an illegal area in 2006.

-Tampering with a ball vs the Patriots in 2009.

-Patriot ball was inflated up to 16 psi in a game vs the Jets last season. Not saying the Jets did this but it's certainly interesting this was ignored and nobody asked any questions.

-Braylon Edwards no suspension for DUI.

Then we have Ravens' bountygate that Suggs admitted he did and the league conspiring with Goodell to cover up for Ray Rice and Ray Lewis antlergate that nobody bothered to look into. The Colts noisegate was never investigated nor was complaints by the Jags that the Colts ball boys were keeping deflating needles up their sleeves (the irony lol).

Then (and no offense) but tripgate 2.0 was the most obvious cheating I have ever seen. Considering the punishments the Patriots and Saints have endured (and not saying this is what I think is fair I'm saying if punishments were consistent) Tomlin would have been suspended at least a year and the Steelers docked 1st and 4th round picks. Instead just a fine.

If Goodell isn't going to be fair he has to at least be consistent. Why wasn't the Falcons noisegate a huge investigation with leaks all over the media on how the Falcons have sabotaged the integrity of the game? Sorry for the huge rant but it makes sports hard to watch when crap like this happens. You're one of the better visitors on this board so don't mean to single out the Steelers but it's hard to believe tripgate 2.0 didn't become a big deal with all these considered. And I do thank Rooney for trying to vote against that. Kraft deserves a lot of flak for pushing that deal. Hopefully the players are willing to lose a season next time instead of accepting a horrific CBA.

Goodell *has* been consistent, in a perverse way: the harshness of his discipline aligns with the degree of public outcry/PR damage to the league. Except for his inexplicable, egregious miscalculation on the Ray Rice situation, his punishments have more or less aligned with his estimation of the actual or potential damage to the NFL brand and business.

Re/ the Tomlin incident, I'm not going to argue that the punishment was consistent or inconsistent because there's clearly no consistent basis for discipline in the NFL, if Ray Rice originally got one game and Tom Brady is getting four. But as to why Tomlin wasn't suspended a year and docked 1st and 4th round draft picks: 1) he's a coach (and there's clearly a different standard for coaches and league officials vis-a-vis players...unless you happened to be named Sean Payton!) and 2) the Pats, rightly or wrongly, received their team discipline of 1st and 4th round draft picks as part of a "second offender" status. Not saying it's fair, but I think we can all agree that was part of the league's calculus in determining the punishment (i.e., if "Spygate" didn't exist those punishments wouldn't have occurred, or at least would have been far less draconian).

FWIW I actually believe the Spygate punishments might have been even more severe had they occurred today rather than circa 2007. Again, not saying it would be "correct" or "consistent"...merely that in 2007 Roger was just getting his feet under him, i.e. Spygate occurred *before* Roger had fully established his 'hang 'em high' approach. (IIRC there was a cap of a $500K team fine at that time--the fine structure really seemed to open up over the next 2-3 years.)

Finally re/ the CBA - the NFL players and its players don't get a full pass on that one. They overwhelmingly wanted to avoid a work stoppage (which would mean less paychecks), and I'm sure most of them just figured that the broad powers retained by Goodell as part of the agreement would never impact them. As it turns out, it's like a bad game of musical chairs - if your player or team happens to land in the wrong spot during Roger's crusade du jour, you're screwed.

Froob · Jul 30, 2015

lillloyd said:
Goodell *has* been consistent, in a perverse way: the harshness of his discipline aligns with the degree of public outcry/PR damage to the league. Except for his inexplicable, egregious miscalculation on the Ray Rice situation, his punishments have more or less aligned with his estimation of the actual or potential damage to the NFL brand and business.

Re/ the Tomlin incident, I'm not going to argue that the punishment was consistent or inconsistent because there's clearly no consistent basis for discipline in the NFL, if Ray Rice originally got one game and Tom Brady is getting four. But as to why Tomlin wasn't suspended a year and docked 1st and 4th round draft picks: 1) he's a coach (and there's clearly a different standard for coaches and league officials vis-a-vis players...unless you happened to be named Sean Payton!) and 2) the Pats, rightly or wrongly, received their team discipline of 1st and 4th round draft picks as part of a "second offender" status. Not saying it's fair, but I think we can all agree that was part of the league's calculus in determining the punishment (i.e., if "Spygate" didn't exist those punishments wouldn't have occurred, or at least would have been far less draconian).

FWIW I actually believe the Spygate punishments might have been even more severe had they occurred today rather than circa 2007. Again, not saying it would be "correct" or "consistent"...merely that in 2007 Roger was just getting his feet under him, i.e. Spygate occurred *before* Roger had fully established his 'hang 'em high' approach. (IIRC there was a cap of a $500K team fine at that time--the fine structure really seemed to open up over the next 2-3 years.)

Finally re/ the CBA - the NFL players and its players don't get a full pass on that one. They overwhelmingly wanted to avoid a work stoppage (which would mean less paychecks), and I'm sure most of them just figured that the broad powers retained by Goodell as part of the agreement would never impact them. As it turns out, it's like a bad game of musical chairs - if your player or team happens to land in the wrong spot during Roger's crusade du jour, you're screwed.

The repeat offender is the worst part of it, spygate was on BB and the team and in the Wells report both the team and BB are deemed innocent. Also why did Suh lose his repeat offender status after 2(or was it 3?) seasons while Patriots kept theirs for 8 years. If the same logic applied to the Jets they would have been hit BIG time for repeat offender for tampering again (2nd off season in a row) with Revis. We'll lucky in a weird way BB wasn't suspended (not that he deserved it though obviously) and I understand Saints fans are pissed about Payton. That was crap. Can't even appeal coaches' punishments. Man if there's one thing Goodell does well is his propaganda machine. Convinced everybody he did Pats a favor destroying the tapes when he boned us bad. Tapes were shown on TV and nothing but cheerleaders and coaches waving to the camera.

And yeah you're right about the CBA. Players badly miscalculated. By nature owners have the upper hand because they still get the TV contract money (and they're billions of course). But, still.....NBA and MLB (dunno about NHL) have much much much better CBAs.

No NFL fan should be ok with this…

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