Was bountygate completely fabricated?

Originally I had thought Vilma and co. should have taken their punishment and then I had learned later that there was flimsy evidence to suspend them but now having read this article http://www.saintswin.com/2012/10/the-many-lies-of-bountygate.html it sounds like there was no real evidence of any bounty at all. Just Gregg Williams telling them to hurt some guys (which is in poor taste but is it illegal with no bounty?). Should have paid more attention to that from the get go after Roger dodger screwed us on cameraplacementgate. But damn, sounds like Payton got big time ****ed over. Why aren't coaches able to appeal punishments? Maybe that's why he's not in the coaches' union.

Oh and on the flipside here's proof of an actual bounty program.

Ravens Terrell Suggs said that the Baltimore Ravens had a "bounty" on Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver Hines Ward and running back Rashard Mendenhall. During the "2 Live Stews" syndicated radio show on Oct. 17, 2008, when he was asked, "Did you all put a bounty out on that young man [Mendenhall]," Suggs replied, "Definitely. The bounty was out on him and the bounty was out on [Ward] -- we just didn't get him between the whistles."

During the interview, Suggs called Ward "a dirty player" and "a cheap-shot artist, saying "we got something in store for him." Ward, who appeared on "PTI" a few days later, said the bounty talk was "a big honor." Continued Ward, "I am really not going to comment, but all I have to say to Mr. Suggs is there's a policy in the NFL [against bounties] he should read."

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Coincidence that the Ravens never get punished and have heavy influence on the rules?

Yes and no. Did the saints have an internal system that rewarded guys for big hits? Probably. I say that because it's a common thing throughout all levels of football.

Now with that said, should it have been a scandal? God no. Goodell took a recent superbowl winner that was a notoriously low profile franchise with a weak owner and decided to make an example out of them due to the concussion lawsuit. One of the key things I hear from Saints fans with regards to this deflate BS is that they dont understand how Belichick didn't get suspended when Payton did, and my answer it always that they're focusing on the wrong part of the issue, it should be on the league getting away with this with both cars being use as examples of their over reach. New Orleans basically was fined an entire season for something that they probably didn't do (by that I mean intentionally injuring guys, not big hits) and no one really cares. I wish I didn't love the Pats so much because I really want to be done with this corrupt league.

Yeah apparently Reggie White admitted the Packers had a bounty (or hit) program back in the 90's. They need to stop arbitrarily slamming teams down with huge punishments. If Falcons were a contender I bet noisegate is a lot worse. Hell the league never even investigated Polian's Colts.

Bountygate was an overblown pile of cow dung. Absurd on multiple levels that like Framegate, was a complete fabrication.

With that said, teams can't pay players for performance outside of what is stipulated in their contract.

A heavy fine would have sufficed. Instead typical, pinhead Goodell uses a daisycutter bomb to kill an ant.

It's ironic that the only two times in Goodell's tenure he actually caught somebody cheating red handed gaining a big competitive advantage (tripgate I & II) he barely punishes anyone. Still amazed to this day Tomlin got away with that crap. BB would have been suspended a year and lost a 1st round pick.

Froob said:

It's ironic that the only two times in Goodell's tenure he actually caught somebody cheating red handed gaining a big competitive advantage (tripgate I & II) he barely punishes anyone. Still amazed to this day Tomlin got away with that crap. BB would have been suspended a year and lost a 1st round pick.

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Without a doubt Belichick would have been suspended and we'd never hear the end of it. It's truly amazing that the steelers and jets skated on those things and we've been raked over the coals for 7 months for maybe possibly removing .4 psi of air pressure with no actual evidence any tampering occurred.

Froob said:

It's ironic that the only two times in Goodell's tenure he actually caught somebody cheating red handed gaining a big competitive advantage (tripgate I & II) he barely punishes anyone. Still amazed to this day Tomlin got away with that crap. BB would have been suspended a year and lost a 1st round pick.

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Given what we know about Rog this isn't in the least bit ironic.

I remember feeling that they were dirty in how they kept targeting Favre's ankle. For that game alone I had little sympathy for them and I hate Favre.

I regret being one of the uninformed when Bounty Story came to light. I regret not being very informed when it came time to see if the Dolphins were bullies.

I hope other franchises get to see what our team's seeing. So that it can stop once and for all.

This is what happens when you have an inept front office more interested in what people think than actually running a league the right way. And the only people to blame are the owners who really don't care about anything at all as long as they are raking in the cash.

Yes

PatsSox363804 said:

Without a doubt Belichick would have been suspended and we'd never hear the end of it. It's truly amazing that the steelers and jets skated on those things and we've been raked over the coals for 7 months for maybe possibly removing .4 psi of air pressure with no actual evidence any tampering occurred.

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That's absolutely true. The media would never drop the topic if Belichick stood in the way and prevented an opposing player from scoring a TD. Opposing fans would make up "clever" t-shirts and memes.
It would never go away.

With Tomlin, though, it's largely forgotten. He didn't even lose his spot on the competition committee.

Froob said:

It's ironic that the only two times in Goodell's tenure he actually caught somebody cheating red handed gaining a big competitive advantage (tripgate I & II) he barely punishes anyone. Still amazed to this day Tomlin got away with that crap. BB would have been suspended a year and lost a 1st round pick.

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Yep because there is a long history of cheating and the Pats have been getting away with murder for years...

Why would I, from here on in, ever entertain any thought that anyone in the NFL power structure (including owners) to be trustworthy and/or honest? I am now, and forever will be, biased toward the players side of the equation. It's the Pats turn in the barrel (again) and with the exception of the Jets, Colts, and Ravens, I expect that at one time or another down the road, every successful team will have to take a turn being their whipping boy.

The Saints got screwed, we are getting screwed (again), and on it goes...

Sorry for the rant....

PatsSox363804 said:

Yes and no. Did the saints have an internal system that rewarded guys for big hits? Probably. I say that because it's a common thing throughout all levels of football.

Now with that said, should it have been a scandal? God no. Goodell took a recent superbowl winner that was a notoriously low profile franchise with a weak owner and decided to make an example out of them due to the concussion lawsuit. One of the key things I hear from Saints fans with regards to this deflate BS is that they dont understand how Belichick didn't get suspended when Payton did, and my answer it always that they're focusing on the wrong part of the issue, it should be on the league getting away with this with both cars being use as examples of their over reach. New Orleans basically was fined an entire season for something that they probably didn't do (by that I mean intentionally injuring guys, not big hits) and no one really cares. I wish I didn't love the Pats so much because I really want to be done with this corrupt league.

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Bountygate was overblown nonsense to about the same extent that Deflategate is. Technically, there was something there, in that they did have an informal performance pool that rewarded big plays. Yes, it's possible that players were being rewarded for injuring opponents. No, there was never any compelling evidence that that was the case. Instead, the league's entire case rested on BS leaks, outright fabrications (remember when the owner's box apparently had a direct line to the opposing team's communications? Yeah, never happened), and selective non-evidence being interpreted in the worst possible light in hope that nobody would look closer and realize it was all crap.

Basically, Goodell & Co. did the same thing there that they did here. They just knew that most people would accept his verdict at face value, even after Tagliabue reversed all of the player suspensions and outright called out his successor on being incompetent.

This is the problem in a nutshell. Roger creates a mountain of a molehill. He generates enough headlines from which the fans of the other 31 teams will form an opinion. Throw a couple of ex jocks on the camera and tell them what to say, give BSPN a few leaks to throw out, have an ex GM give you insight and Presto, you have yourself a *&*&* Gate. Roger gets his all powerful ego fueled. Ratings go up and the owners stick the cash in their pockets. Swell.

I have no idea, but considering the ongoing concussion lawsuit, the league had little choice but to make an example of the Saints. Anything less could have cost them an incredible amount of money.

DFG, by comparison was an intentional exaggeration intent on justifying an enormous penalty.

Oswlek said:

I have no idea, but considering the ongoing concussion lawsuit, the league had little choice but to make an example of the Saints. Anything less could have cost them an incredible amount of money.

DFG, by comparison was an intentional exaggeration intent on justifying an enormous penalty.

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You have a good point.

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2015/07/former_saints_dc_gregg_william.html

To little to late. I remember being berated by false quote's, word of mouth "made up" saying by reporters, and articles.

It was a sharknato storm of hate, anger, disinformation, and no evidence. Like SP admitted to everything.

It was impossible to talk sense anymore, and because of the huge impact from fines, lost drafts, coaches and players banned from playing, it really wrecked a promising ball club that had a chance to make something of themselves for once after 40 years of struggling.
We were like kids and didnt know what or why this was happening to us as fans.

Wasted seasons of Brees getting better stats.

Even Pats fans, who we consider to be the best in the league, and something we as fans should try to emulate, were 50/50 on the fence.

Forum discussions always broke down, and it was a tough time for us as fans to posts anything,because “we are biased” and its all proven, they would say. While we sat back dumb founded thinking , but that was never said.

We knew saints were playing ball like its always been played. But suddenly RG decided there should be a team thats not worth much in a small revenue region of the NFL to take the hit for everyone else, to win a unrelated player court case.

He would never have done this to Cowboys, GB, Giants, SF or a big market team, and they all had the same money for good hits programs.

And to tell you the truth Im not against money for good performance or game changing hits, its football.

Like the stickers on your kids helmets are not for kissing the other guys cheek. Their for kicking his ass. As it should be, you don't like it take up fencing.

NO was to small and weak to deal with RG and the NFL, and SP had no choice to do anything but what he agreed to do.

And if you want to know how RG is having a impact on the NFL, look at the saints, and youll see a wrecked team trying to get it together again.

We really wish you all the best and know in our hearts Brady is a great man and would never do these things. BB is greatly admired, and its crazy to think he needs cheap tricks to win.

Your a big market team and hope you can fight this and show the truth that the charges are untrue. We know they are.

It would be a small win for us to, in a way, as we struggle back. .. and thats all I have to say on this, because we are really sick of this and what it did.

Hey @pherein , nice to see you back here. Thinking about going to that Pats vs Saints preseason while I'm in southern miss (as much as I don't want to spend money on the NFL kinda too good of an opportunity to pass up) , Saints fans pretty cool to opposing fans or should I not wear any Pats gear? Figured you guys probably hate Goodell too so we have a common enemy.