Great article on Darryl "Swagg" Roberts

robertweathers said:

Roberts is nowhere close to Browner's size and physicality.

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That's what I'm wondering about. I think Browner was a pretty big loss now that it's playing out. We shall see.

ViperGTS said:

That's what I'm wondering about. I think Browner was a pretty big loss now that it's playing out. We shall see.

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Lets me soften my statement a little. Based on what we know, Roberts is pretty strong for a CB (23 reps of 225) has good vertical jumping ability and is 6ft tall.

I guess we don't know how physical he is at the LoS or athletic enough to challenge guys like Matthews, etc. (box out,fight for jump balls)

robertweathers said:

Lets me soften my statement a little. Based on what we know, Roberts is pretty strong for a CB (23 reps of 225) has good vertical jumping ability and is 6ft tall.

I guess we don't know how physical he is at the LoS or athletic enough to challenge guys like Matthews, etc. (box out,fight for jump balls)

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Well we know it's a pretty safe bet Bronwer would make it out of camp. We don't know if this guy even will. Guess we'll find out in a bit over a month.

n6249c said:

Jones impressed with off the charts athleticism at the combine.
Roberts wasn't invited to the combine, so how does his athleticism stack up? From NESN: "He ran a 4.38-second 40-yard dash at his Marshall pro day with a 6.66-second 3-cone drill, 4.06 second short shuttle, 39-inch vertical leap, 11-foot, 1-inch broad jump and 23 reps of 225 pounds on the bench press.
Had Roberts been invited to the combine and put up the same numbers, he would have ranked second among cornerbacks in the 40-yard dash, second in 3-cone, seventh in short shuttle, sixth in vertical leap, second in broad jump and second in bench press."

Read more at: http://nesn.com/2015/05/patriots-cornerback-roster-reset-darryl-roberts-adds-elite-athleticism/

For comparison, Jones was a tad slower on the three-cone, a bit faster on the short shuttle, five inches higher on the vert leap, and 1'2" longer on the broad jump (and 8" over the previous broad jump record, half of which was held by Jamie Collins).

Looks to me like Roberts is almost as athletic, but not quite. He's also two inches shorter, 5'11" vs. 6'1" for Jones. That's raw talent, real question is what does he do with what he's got? We will see, soon enough.

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The two places I looked (NFL.com and wikipedia) both have him listed as 6'. Do we have a definitive ruling on this?

ctpatsfan77 said:

Looking solely at the Cardona pick in a vacuum: the Pats needed a LS. Cardona is arguably the best one to be available in a while. He also has a unique circumstance (being from Navy). Some folks believe that BB needed to pick him this early (higher than any of the other three LSs drafted) to convince the Navy that this wasn't just a lark of some sort.

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Plus, I'm not sure this idea that what round Bill uses necessarily equates to how much he values the player. I suspect it's a combination of factors that include how much danger he perceives that a player will be selected earlier.

robertweathers said:

He didn't get as killed as Arrington but the play on Matthews was poor. Needs to find a way to get better position on those players.

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And don't forget that Ryan allowed the completion on 3rd/10 to keep Seattle's 4th-quarter drive alive
by giving a ridiculous cushion, again.
I have very, very little faith that Ryan will prove himself worthy of replacing any of Browner, Arrington
or even Dennard.

captain stone said:

And don't forget that Ryan allowed the completion on 3rd/10 to keep Seattle's 4th-quarter drive alive
by giving a ridiculous cushion, again.
I have very, very little faith that Ryan will prove himself worthy of replacing any of Browner, Arrington
or even Dennard.

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Ryan has very average cover skills. He has good hands but his positioning and man to man skills are below average

Malcom Brown, Trey Flowers, and this physically talented kid are the most interesting guys of the draftee class to watch in TC. All three have the ability to contribute immediately, like velociraptor babies.

The Navy LS too. I just hope they let him out of Newport every wknd.

robertweathers said:

I agree that Arrington is a very good slot DB and in his time here has received a ton of unfair flack on this board but let's be honest here.... Arrington was just plain bad in SB49. Neither one of the long Matthews catches on Arrington were jump-balls per se. One was due to Matthews having a free release on the weave and KA picking him up and trailing him in the slot and the second long on was just plain bad ball awareness. Let's also remember the bad break (and facemask) on the Lockette catch.

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Point taken but only to a degree. He may be able to recover if the receiver is of comparable height. A QB is just going to throw it as high as possible regardless of where the defender is when the receiver is that tall. Put a taller DB on him, and things completely changed. We both know Browner was laterally quick and nor was he fast. Russell tried the high ball and Browner could play it at it's high point . . . Arrington could not. To me, that was the only difference.

Again, I say Arrington was good when he was put in the best possible position to succeed. Putting players in spots of strength to make plays is one of the things BB has been known for, and I think he failed Arrington (Hobbs if you want to go back). Look at Chung's transformation when only asked to do what he was good at doing. They used him in coverage, but it was on select number of times. I don't know. Maybe I just don't thing Arrington's bad game was just Arrington being bad. There's more to it than that, IMHO. I challenge anyone to watch some games this past season where he was just all over making plays (DEN comes to mind immediately). I, for one, didn't want to see him go.

State said:

Malcom Brown, Trey Flowers, and this physically talented kid are the most interesting guys of the draftee class to watch in TC. All three have the ability to contribute immediately, like velociraptor babies.

The Navy LS too. I just hope they let him out of Newport every wknd.

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What about Geneo Grissom?

PatsBoy12 said:

Point taken but only to a degree. He may be able to recover if the receiver is of comparable height. A QB is just going to throw it as high as possible regardless of where the defender is when the receiver is that tall. Put a taller DB on him, and things completely changed. We both know Browner was laterally quick and nor was he fast. Russell tried the high ball and Browner could play it at it's high point . . . Arrington could not. To me, that was the only difference.

Again, I say Arrington was good when he was put in the best possible position to succeed. Putting players in spots of strength to make plays is one of the things BB has been known for, and I think he failed Arrington (Hobbs if you want to go back). Look at Chung's transformation when only asked to do what he was good at doing. They used him in coverage, but it was on select number of times. I don't know. Maybe I just don't thing Arrington's bad game was just Arrington being bad. There's more to it than that, IMHO. I challenge anyone to watch some games this past season where he was just all over making plays (DEN comes to mind immediately). I, for one, didn't want to see him go.

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That's all fine and you make good points.

Let's me ask you this... Is KA worth $4m? Especially when he needs to be in the best possible position for success?

Since I don't watch a lick of the NCAA, these are the threads that I enjoy most.

If the Pats can win SBs with the likes of Earthwind Moreland, Randall Gay and Hank Poteat at CB, they can do it with the current crop too.

1960Pats said:

If the Pats can win SBs with the likes of Earthwind Moreland, Randall Gay and Hank Poteat at CB, they can do it with the current crop too.

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Don't forget Troy Brown playing slot DB.

With that said I'm not sure they win with that group in today's NFL. Different game now.

robertweathers said:

Don't forget Troy Brown playing slot DB.

With that said I'm not sure they win with that group in today's NFL. Different game now.

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How could I ever forget my favorite Pats player of all time?

The Polian Rules have changed the game forever, and not for the better.

1960Pats said:

How could I ever forget my favorite Pats player of all time?

The Polian Rules have changed the game forever, and not for the better.

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Yep and the narrative that they, "were just putting a renewed emphasis on existing rules" is complete hogwash.

The simple truth is that receivers have more right to the football than DBs and are allowed to be more physical at the LoS.

Even with todays flag football rules, guys like Sherman and Peterson still play a helluva corner. Just imagine how much more shutdown they would be in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s.

robertweathers said:

That's all fine and you make good points.

Let's me ask you this... Is KA worth $4m? Especially when he needs to be in the best possible position for success?

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Maybe not, Rob, but he knows the system, plays through pain (very durable before last season), and quality at the position is a big question mark right now. I'm not saying he is all-world and irreplaceable. My point originally was that he was good for what he did and received too much unfair criticism on this board. People only remember the bad plays and forget things like how he was ALWAYS strong in run support and took on O-linemen to free up other guys like no other corner I've ever seen. It's all there for anyone to re-watch.

ViperGTS said:

If for some reason he pans out, Goodell will start taking 5-7th round picks instead of firsts. Also, disallow the Pats from signing UDFAs that played any kind of organized team football.

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No players may be signed directly from any fried chicken franchise!

Roberts has a really skinny frame but hits hard. You have to wonder about durability but he looks intriguing. No confidence problems which will be important this season.

BB seems to like those thin speedsters. I hope he is not another Terrence Wheatley.