Criticizing the 2015 Secondary is Overdone

I am growing weary of the constant criticizing of the Pats 2015 secondary. It is being Over done. Certainly the comparisons to the 2011 secondary are impossible. It will be much better than that SuperBowl teams secondary.

First of all it is not the secondary that is being critqued. The shorthand is erroneous. It is only the CBs. Unlike 2011 when we had neither CBs nor Safeties, today the Safety corps is actually pretty talented. Unlike then we had no Safety who is near Probowl quality unlike Devin McCourty is now. The other Safety was a raw rookie. Now he is an experienced 5 year starter, who while not a star, is not chicken feathers either. The backups are not nameless PS refugees like then either. All are relatively high draft selections with the concomitant athletic abilities that those high selections imply.

So the problem is half as bad as the 2011 secondary (and 2010 and 20112 editions as well)

Lets look at the CBs. Revis is gone. H is the best in the game. As for the others, Browner, Dennard and Arrington were all freely let go. Belichick may be many things; but a Fool he is Not. He wouldn't shed those players unless he believed he had possible or rather probable replacements at hand. OTOH, He has been known to discard players a Year too soon but not hang on until a year too late. Why isn't this the logical answer?

It has been suggested by several respected analysts that without Revis to be the Man coverage Key, the team can't rely on using predominately Man coverage.

Who are the replacements? The Superbowl hero and flashing rookie Malcolm Butler comes to mind. Logan Ryan a relatively high draft selection a few years ago has demonstrated an ability in Zone if not Man coverage ability. So did former starter Brandon Fletcher, who also showed he isn't a good Man cover CB, but was more than adequate starter in Zone coverage for other teams.

The likely CB players will be better than the 2011 edition, and we already know the Safeties are much better. Do you all recall the numerous completions to opposition receivers when the CBs played good "trail technique" but the supposed help of the Safeties arrived way too late, or not at all? Thankfully those days are gone.

I haven't even mentioned the superior DTs, DEs, or the Linebackers who positions are filled with recently drafted star players, playing in front of the realy not-so-bad Safeties and CBs.

BB is reverting to his sound football, Bend don't Break sound Defense but with a much more heavily talented collection of defensive players from top to bottom, save at the two CB positions.

So how did you like the 2015 season?

Come on man. It's a huge question mark. The reasons may be good (at corner) - you mention the "better a year too early vs. a year too late" philosophy. Sure. But it could range anywhere from "uh-oh" to "Well that was a nice surprise "

Agree, Bill's no fool... he's the best in the game, maybe the GOAT.

That didn't make Reche Caldwell be Randy Moss or Wes Welker. We might have a year of finger-crossing and nail biting ahead of us.

::shrug:: or we may not

The constant criticism of the Pats Secondary is a function of the local mediots who need to say something to make sure that people keep ingesting their pablum.. or the real proof more facebook likes or twitter followers...

I am in the camp of Bill has not failed us so far, so why would he start now??? I think this defense is somewhat different and may defy description as it has so many moving and interchangeable parts.. stay tuned.

McCourty/Chung/Harmon is one of the best safety groups in the NFL (Maybe Richards even shows something?). That disqualifies the secondary from being bad, despite the local media making it out to be the worsf unit ever assembled.

McCourty will protect one of the 2 CBs. We need another CB to emerge. The secondary will range from below average to great all depending on how Butler pans out.

The media trolls are going to be pissed when our defense ends up a strength rather than a liability. The CBs on the 49ers 2011-2013 defenses and the Panthers 2012-2014 defenses were interchangeable parts due to great front sevens/great safety play.

I have faith in Bill to give us the best he can after Revis.

If we can agree that the odds are good that Butler will be an average to good starting CB, and we've got one star safety and at least two average to good ones, then the real issue is about the other two CB's (now that Arrington is gone). That's a big issue, but it isn't about the entire secondary.

Rather than worry and complain, we should all just be praying that out of the vets and rookies, a couple of really good ones emerge.

If there were no questions going into training camp, it would be a bit boring.

The 2015 Secondary sucks. Discuss.

***

Seriously, though...

I believe that Mad Bill was actually quite Wise to cut Revis & Browner loose: Retaining Revis would've crippled us, what with The Infernal Salary Cap, and Browner's no good without Revis.

But let's not kid ourselves.

Off The Grid said:

The 2015 Secondary sucks. Discuss.

***

Seriously, though...

I believe that Mad Bill was actually quite Wise to cut Revis & Browner loose: Retaining Revis would've crippled us, what with The Infernal Salary Cap, and Browner's no good without Revis.

But let's not kid ourselves.

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The Revis deal was a poison pill.

Browner was decent. I don't think the team wins the SB w/o him. I don't buy the 'BB had to cut Browner b/c Revis left'. Butler will play press man. I think it was more about paying $5.5m for a player who turns 30 in August who was a penalty machine and didnt make as many plays as the team had hoped. I think that's the reason why they wanted to slash his pay.

The safeties are fine.

The CBs are question marks.

As you say, just gotta see how things play out and what BB does to fix things if they go bad.

Thank you. Plenty of reasons to be concerned and plenty of reasons to think this will be a better secondary than many think. But mostly I feel these guys deserve their own chance to fail or succeed before we call them as bad as secondaries past.

betterthanthealternative said:

If we can agree that the odds are good that Butler will be an average to good starting CB, and we've got one star safety and at least two average to good ones, then the real issue is about the other two CB's.

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Alas, on that we can not agree.

I'm crazy about Malcolm Butler. We're all crazy about Malcolm Butler.

He goes right up there at the very top with all the Boston Clutch & Big Game Legends:

Babe Ruth
Larry Bird
Tom Brady
Bobby Orr
Curt Schilling
Bill Russell
Adam Vinatieri
Dave Henderson
Bob Cousy
Ty Law
Luis Tiant
John Halvicek
Rodney Harrison
Cy Young
Tommy Bond
Kid Nichols

Et Cetera...

But he's what I call a CenterFielder ~ a Slot Corner/CenterFielder Hybrid. And he's potentially an exceptional one, but at 5096/187, he's no starting CornerBack, much less an average or good one.

It Is What It Is.

I'm not going to criticize something that I can't measure, but after the huge shakeup of not being able to sign Revis I feel the secondary is questionable at this point and would be lying if I said I wasn't concerned about it.

robertweathers said:

I don't buy the 'BB had to cut Browner b/c Revis left'.

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Nor did I sell that. I merely said that it was a smart move...and it was.

01 ~ Spending heavily on the Secondary is like spending heavily on the Tail, not the Dog.

02 ~ Mad Bill chose wisely.

03 ~ That doesn't mean that there won't be Consequences. Of course there will be Consequences.

04 ~ The Secondary is shaky, whatever Fans may wish to believe.

05 ~ Mad Bill saw an Opportunity to rent Revis for a Year at a Discount, and he seized it.

06 ~ That...was Brilliant. And it helped win us a Championship.

07 ~ But to overplay that Hand...could've and probably would've been Disastrous.

08 ~ Mad Bill appears to be moving forward with a focus on investing in the Front 6 or 7.

09 ~ That is considerably Wise. He is investing not in the Tail, but in the Dog.

10 ~ Don't worry about the Secondary.

If this Front 6 or 7 reaches its enormous Potential, our Foes are going to be so relentlessly battered and beaten and so rushed for Time that our Grannies could cover Greasy Chickens out there!!

Off The Grid said:

Nor did I sell that. I merely said that it was a smart move...and it was.

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Yep. I was just supporting you point and piling on with additional reasons supporting why Browner was cut.

robertweathers said:

Yep. I was just supporting you point and piling on with additional reasons supporting why Browner was cut.

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Ah!! I misinferred your word ~ thanks, Bro!!

What we know for certain is that BB will adjust the scheme to get the most out of the players on the roster.

I think Bulter will develop into a +#1 CB, not Sherman or Revis but more than capable. It will be fascinating to see how the secondary will shake out.


Really though remarkably few questions coming into camp. For me the only large questions are OG and CB.

Off The Grid said:

Alas, on that we can not agree.

I'm crazy about Malcolm Butler. We're all crazy about Malcolm Butler.

He goes right up there at the very top with all the Boston Clutch & Big Game Legends:

Babe Ruth
Larry Bird
Tom Brady
Bobby Orr
Curt Schilling
Bill Russell
Adam Vinatieri
Dave Henderson
Bob Cousy
Ty Law
Luis Tiant
John Halvicek
Rodney Harrison
Cy Young
Tommy Bond
Kid Nichols

Et Cetera...

But he's what I call a CenterFielder ~ a Slot Corner/CenterFielder Hybrid. And he's potentially an exceptional one, but at 5096/187, he's no starting CornerBack, much less an average or good one.

It Is What It Is.

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Butler is 5-11, Grid. Reports are that he's bigger than the 190 he played at last year. He also has a 35" vertical leap and twitchyness and the physical attributes to play on the outside.

The question is can he do it every snap and every game. We just don't know.

No, it isn't. Let me explain:

Butler - Unproven on the outside, solid in the slot.
Fletcher - Trash.
Logan Ryan - Average in zone, below average in man.
McClain - JAG
Roberts - Unproven.

McCourty at safety will cover up for a good amount of it but that doesn't mean that the corner situation is a solid one. The Patriots either have one of the most unknown CB stables in the NFL or one of the worst ones depending on which way you look at it.

I think the OP is confusing people saying that the secondary is a very blank slate right now to "criticizing the secondary".

Lots of words written over a mistaken interpretation.

And, in today's NFL, with the overwhelming emphasis on the passing game, this last sentence is a doozy;

"BB is reverting to his sound football, Bend don't Break sound Defense but with a much more heavily talented collection of defensive players from top to bottom, save at the two CB positions.'

I do agree that calling the secondary a problem is erroneous--it really is just the cornerbacks. But there's a very real chance of having 0 corners on the roster who deserve to be a #1 or even #2. There's also a very real chance that Ryan, Butler, Fletcher, Roberts, or someone steps up. For our cornerback position to be anything but the worst in the NFL, at least 1 of them needs to "Make The Leap(TM)". But we can't just assume one of those guys will make the leap because we need them to.