some specs on possible brady suit? from WaPo

I hate how much of a distraction this may end up being during the season

shmessy said:

Sorry, boss. Had to merge it.



The Kilgore article (that Curran references) came out yesterday.

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Only risk of a defamation suit is that I'd worry the process would take a while and the Patriots are then forced to ask the league to put Brady on the exempt list which obviously torpedoes the season.

Sicilian said:

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The man gave my post a "Winner" rating.

Ian is the Anti-Goodell.


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sb1 said:

Per NFL Insiders Vincent wanted to give Brady an EIGHT game suspension and Goodell overruled him.

Because he might have probably been sort of aware of something.

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If that is true, then that is a legal smoking gun as to why Goodell has no right to arbitrate.

If he had any influence over the initial punishment.........

Per the Kilgore piece:

"Because of how federal courts view arbitration hearings and rulings made in private venues, such as sports leagues, Brady’s best chance at winning a potential challenge in court might be the NFLPA’s assertion Goodell himself was unfit to serve as the arbiter of Brady’s appeal. The NFL announced that Executive Vice President Troy Vincent made the initial ruling against Brady. Goodell insisted he could arbitrate independently of Vincent’s decision. The NFL will argue that Goodell had input in the initial decision and was therefore a biased arbiter.

“Definitely start with that,” Milstein said. “Everybody knew he should have bowed out. For the life of me, I can’t figure out why – it was like a public decision he made, he’s going to be judge and jury.”

VectorPrime said:

But it's absolutely critical to Brady's legacy and reputation that it be made clear that no crime was committed in the first place and that the Wells Report was fundamentally flawed. If Brady simply gets off due to an account of procedural errors no one will take it seriously. In the eyes of the general public it'll just be seen as an example of a clearly guilty criminal who got off because of a talented legal team finding crafty legal loopholes. Which is bullsh.it.

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That's great and all, but labor law doesn't allow for that. This isn't an appeal of a criminal matter.

sb1 said:

Per NFL Insiders Vincent wanted to give Brady an EIGHT game suspension and Goodell overruled him.

Because he might have probably been sort of aware of something.

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We are into wild-ass speculation here, but if that could be proven, Goodell would have no standing to act as arbiter.

TBR said:

I hate how much of a distraction this may end up being during the season

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This team were able to handle the Hernandez distraction and also the deflategate distraction in the SB week, they are vaccinated against any sort of distraction.

I went back and listened to the insiders replay.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=13250558

More or less quoting Ashley Fox starting at about 26:44:

- As of last week people in the league didn't think Roger Goodell was going to reduce Brady's suspension because Troy Vincent wanted to recommend more than 4 games.
- He thought Brady deserved 8 but was comfortable with 6.
- Vincent and Goodell went with 4 as a compromise but they didn't want to go below that.
- But now things might have changed now that Hardy's suspension is also 4

Hmmm. If this is a legal smoking gun then I would think Kessler and crew will be too happy to talk to these "people in the league" who could give him some more information.

sb1 said:

Only risk of a defamation suit is that I'd worry the process would take a while and the Patriots are then forced to ask the league to put Brady on the exempt list which obviously torpedoes the season.

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That's not what the exempt list is for. It isn't just for rules violations. It is used for teams to protect themselves when a player has been accused of a very serious crime (rape, battery, DUI, child abuse, etc.)

After going on the exempt list, the team doesn't have to cut him, but he doesn't count on their roster. Even if #12 personally drained every ball of every molecule of air, that is no crime!

He will play every game under an injunction, most likely, in the legal case. A separate defamation suit will not cause him to miss any game action either.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

That's not what the exempt list is for. It isn't just for rules violations. It is used for teams to protect themselves when a player has been accused of a very serious crime (rape, battery, DUI, child abuse, etc.)

After going on the exempt list, the team doesn't have to cut him, but he doesn't count on their roster. Even if #12 personally drained every ball of every molecule of air, that is no crime!

He will play every game under an injunction, most likely, in the legal case. A separate defamation suit will not cause him to miss any game action either.

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I always thought it was used to give teams roster flexibility if a player is going to be preoccupied with off the field legal issues. I don't know if there is a specific reason that must be true if a team asks for a player to be put on the list.

sb1 said:

Only risk of a defamation suit is that I'd worry the process would take a while and the Patriots are then forced to ask the league to put Brady on the exempt list which obviously torpedoes the season.

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a defamation suit will be comepletely separate and not a part of whether brady gets to play or not

in my eyes, it works out like this when it comes to process:
- if the penalty is for failing to cooperate, then the process precedents involve Brett Favre and the fine he paid for not turning over his cell phone
- if the penalty if for tampering with the balls, then it is based on a $25K fine as stated in the rules

based on those, Brady's argument would require that the NFL explain the punishments that were handed out and why the huge difference and a lack of precedence.........exact same thing as all of the wife beating scandals........how could anyone ascertain from the existing process that the kind of punishment given to brady is a reasonable possibility even if it was proven if he did do it?

what process was followed to justify the magnitude of the punishment......none....big problem when it comes to labor

this will clearly need to go to court because procedures were in place but the penalties did not match.

from a technical perspective, the rules as stated make it obvious that the league did not take the concept seriously.......that is until the AFCC.......even in november in minnesota where post inspection infractions resulted in a mere warning with no fine....

the problem the league has with this is no different than the problem the league had when they had ray rice adrian peterson and now hardy shoved back in their faces........no, they can't do whatever they want

So they made fun of Brady at the ESPYs last night. super

If Brady intends to file a defamation suit, there is not an urgent timetable for that although it's obviously recommended that the process run relatively short after the events that generated the law suit.

What this means is that Brady can go till the end of the appeal process and then, after solved this problem (hopefully with the justice prevailing which means 0 games) then he can go on the defamation route. The appeal process would even give him and his team a good feeling about their chances in a defamation case if things are brought to light in this first process.

If they feel there's not a lot of ground for a defamation lawsuit (which I think there is) then I'm ok with that too, that would be more a vendetta against Goodell, the important thing is clearing this nonsense first.

TBR said:

I hate how much of a distraction this may end up being during the season

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That doesn't concern me in the least. Brady and the team were under siege for the two weeks leading up to the Super Bowl and they played as focused and intense as we ever could have hoped for. Regular season games are not a problem for them and they always respond very well to controversy and distraction. If there is a team in football that can stay focused during this kind of controversy the Patriots are it, and Brady is always at his best when the haters and doubters are at their most vocal. Ironic as it is I think they are actually better when the sh.t is flying.

The league doesn't have the authority to put Brady on the commissioner's exempt list. The player and (I believe) the team have to agree to it.

The disproportionality of Brady's punishment is hard to dispute. Specifically, one would have to argue that Brady's pattern of bad behavior was shown to far exceed that of proven ball tamperers. However:

• In each of the other cases, there was one proven incident of ball tampering.
• In Brady's case, there are zero proven incidents of ball tampering.
• Getting from there to "more probable than not" that Brady's ball-tampering wrong-doing was more of a pattern is ... hard to justify.

The league's only possible argument is really "Well, there's no precedent because the offense -- on the part of a player rather than of an equipment guy -- is unprecedented." That indeed seems to be the stance Troy Vincent is taking. But is sure seems hard to justify.

The NFL will try to say that the Favre 50K fine precedent does not apply, since it came in December 2010, and the current CBA was not signed until July 25, 2011.

sb1 said:

I always thought it was used to give teams roster flexibility if a player is going to be preoccupied with off the field legal issues. I don't know if there is a specific reason that must be true if a team asks for a player to be put on the list.

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The NFL bylaws are vague, but the only way it has even been applied is when the alleged crimes of a player are so heinous that there would be an overwhelming public outcry against him, the team, and the NFL if he were allowed to play before his guilt or innocence was established. That has pretty much meant FELONY level allegations. We all know that football psi is among the most important issues in our universe, but so far there are no federal death penalty statutes in place for conviction of illegal deflation.

I just realized something.

Besides other motivations for the leak of the NFLPA's stance, one reason could be that Troy Vincent attacked them for the very idea of challenging the league in court. So perhaps they want it to be clear that they have a strong case.