Mock federal court case

A lot of us have been throwing in our two cents on why we think Brady wins in federal court but we are preaching to the choir. Instead of or on addition to these disscussions I think a mock federal case here would be an interesting and fun exercise. We could all participate but input from some of our lawyer members would be great. Some could argue for the Brady team and some could argue for the NFL. I don't have any idea how a Brady vs *NFL case would even open in court. Anybody know how to start this?

That would b interesting if only legally trained posters participate. All to often threads r filled with wannabe opinions that border on fantasy. It's no different than sports talk shows. Yesterday I had on 98.5 n both Murray n the Mouse were offering up conjecture of an appeal. Neither one could back it up with legal facts so it really was nothing more than a spitball exercise

PatsGuy said:

That would b interesting if only legally trained posters participate. All to often threads r filled with wannabe opinions that border on fantasy. It's no different than sports talk shows. Yesterday I had on 98.5 n both Murray n the Mouse were offering up conjecture of an appeal. Neither one could back it up with legal facts so it really was nothing more than a spitball exercise

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But but the mouse has lawyer friends.

Starts with filing a complaint and seeking a TRO (temporary restraining order) to stay the suspension.

It's hard to predict the exact legal strategy because we have very limited access to the facts, what went down at the hearing, and we don't have a formal decision by Goodell on the appeal as of yet.

My concern is that Goodell's strategy may be to vacate all of Brady's penalties but uphold the fine and loss of picks against the Patriots. That way, Brady really has nothing to appeal and Goodell gets to screw the Patriots. This is how an evil and smart person would do it. . . Goodell has proven the evil part, I fear he may start listening to smart people.

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

Starts with filing a complaint and seeking a TRO (temporary restraining order) to stay the suspension.

It's hard to predict the exact legal strategy because we have very limited access to the facts, what went down at the hearing, and we don't have a formal decision by Goodell on the appeal as of yet.

My concern is that Goodell's strategy may be to vacate all of Brady's penalties but uphold the fine and loss of picks against the Patriots. That way, Brady really has nothing to appeal and Goodell gets to screw the Patriots. This is how an evil and smart person would do it. . . Goodell has proven the evil part, I fear he may start listening to smart people.

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When Troy Vincent announced the penalties I knew that was what they were after. They knew their case against Brady was shaky at best so penalize the team as well and if/when the Brady suspension is overturned you still have the team penalties.

Let's start with the basic questions:

1. does Brady even want to sue? Yes.

2. Who are the names defendants? NFL, Goodell, Vincent (we could add a few more like kensil or gardi)

3. Where does brady want to sue?

a. Judge Doty in Minnesota
b. Fed. district court in Mass.

I would say Judge Doty because the CBA names him and has ruled against the NFL before. seems pro labor.

Personal jurisdiction, subject matter jurisdiction and venue requirements satisfied.

i understand that Doty retired

juxtapoz15 said:

When Troy Vincent announced the penalties I knew that was what they were after. They knew their case against Brady was shaky at best so penalize the team as well and if/when the Brady suspension is overturned you still have the team penalties.

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And Kraft's capitulation makes this move all too easy.

My guess, they test Brady's resolve to see if he'll accept a token penalty. If reports are accurate, that's not happening. They'll hold off as long as they can to turn the heat up but ultimately will vacate the Brady penalties to keep him and the players union out of court. I guess Brady could try to sue for intentional infliction of emotional distress, but probably not worth it and I'm sure his lawyers would advise against it.

Patriots fans will cry bloody murder because we are losing draft picks for no reason. Of course, no one will care.

Goodell's victory is complete. He screwed the Patriots, for all intents and purposes he defamed Brady and left him no real recourse, he sheds that ridiculous notion that he is Bob Kraft's b*tch (as the reverse is obviously the case), he is still the "hero" to Patriots haters everywhere.

All too perfect.

PatsGuy said:

That would b interesting if only legally trained posters participate. All to often threads r filled with wannabe opinions that border on fantasy. It's no different than sports talk shows. Yesterday I had on 98.5 n both Murray n the Mouse were offering up conjecture of an appeal. Neither one could back it up with legal facts so it really was nothing more than a spitball exercise

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Yes, lawyers only on this one. I am very interested to hear the consensus of our member attorneys.

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

Starts with filing a complaint and seeking a TRO (temporary restraining order) to stay the suspension.

It's hard to predict the exact legal strategy because we have very limited access to the facts, what went down at the hearing, and we don't have a formal decision by Goodell on the appeal as of yet.

My concern is that Goodell's strategy may be to vacate all of Brady's penalties but uphold the fine and loss of picks against the Patriots. That way, Brady really has nothing to appeal and Goodell gets to screw the Patriots. This is how an evil and smart person would do it. . . Goodell has proven the evil part, I fear he may start listening to smart people.

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This sums up my assumption all along. It's like the fine and draft pick were an acknowledgment that they couldn't make anything stick in court.

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

And Kraft's capitulation makes this move all too easy.

My guess, they test Brady's resolve to see if he'll accept a token penalty. If reports are accurate, that's not happening. They'll hold off as long as they can to turn the heat up but ultimately will vacate the Brady penalties to keep him and the players union out of court. I guess Brady could try to sue for intentional infliction of emotional distress, but probably not worth it and I'm sure his lawyers would advise against it.

Patriots fans will cry bloody murder because we are losing draft picks for no reason. Of course, no one will care.

Goodell's victory is complete. He screwed the Patriots, for all intents and purposes he defamed Brady and left him no real recourse, he sheds that ridiculous notion that he is Bob Kraft's b*tch (as the reverse is obviously the case), he is still the "hero" to Patriots haters everywhere.

All too perfect.

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Agree with everything you said. The part that really sucks is that if Brady and the NFLPA take the NFL to court it will be more of a labor dispute issue and none of the pertinent facts of the investigation will actually see the light of a courtroom. If Brady wins the NFL and haters can still say that Brady cheated, but he got off due to a "technicality" or a legal loophole.

The only way that Brady is completely vindicated is if he sues the NFL for defamation and I just don't see that happening unless he loses in the labor dispute case.

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

My concern is that Goodell's strategy may be to vacate all of Brady's penalties but uphold the fine and loss of picks against the Patriots. That way, Brady really has nothing to appeal and Goodell gets to screw the Patriots. This is how an evil and smart person would do it. . . Goodell has proven the evil part, I fear he may start listening to smart people.

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That may create a PR nightmare for the league if reasonable people ask the right questions, like "why are the Patriots being punished if no one did anything wrong?" No likely to happen..
It also makes Kraft look even more foolish for not appealing, accepting punishment for the non occurrence of any misdeed.

*I don't currently practice law but I did graduate law school and pass the Bar and am active member FWIW....

I would love for the lawyers on this site to give their opinion, and possibly debate, on how strong of a case Brady has for suing for defamation.

I understand the standards of a case for a public figure to sue for libel is higher as they have to prove malice which is defined as "knowledge that the information was false" or that it was published "with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not."

The NFL leaked false information of ball pressure and then chose to not correct it. As a result of this false information, there were many articles written around the country by both sports columnists and regular journalists, sports talk shows and regular talk shows on both TV and radio have been calling him a cheater based on this false info. CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC news led with this as their lead stories for days. Despite all this attention, the NFL deliberately did not correct this false information and it was absolutely harming his reputation. Is this not the text book definition of libel and malice?

Brady is already being slammed in works of fiction (Mr. Robot) and being listed by news organizations such as CBS a one of the worst cheaters in history, right up there with Bernie Madoff.

Brady has huge post career earnings potential. He is arguably the greatest player ever in the most popular sport in America. Compare him to Michael Jordan who 15 years after retirement is still earning $100 million per year in endorsements. I'm not a lawyer, but I would think he has a strong case for a huge amount of money.

Patsfanin Philly said:

That may create a PR nightmare for the league if reasonable people ask the right questions, like "why are the Patriots being punished if no one did anything wrong?" No likely to happen..
It also makes Kraft look even more foolish for not appealing, accepting punishment for the non occurrence of any misdeed.

*I don't currently practice law but I did graduate law school and pass the Bar and am active member FWIW....

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"reasonable people"? We're talking about sports fans.

If Goodell really wants to play it smart, he'll give the 1st round pick back and find some other reason to award us a compensatory draft pick that was just a few slots off of the other pick he took (4th round or something like that).

Perfect ending! The haters get their raw meat, no real consequences to the Patriots or their fans (other than pooping in our Championship punchbowl) who, at this point, just want to move on from this.

Then, it pretty much all goes back to normal except now the haters get a little more ammo for their whole "cheater" narrative.

As far as CBS naming Brady a " top cheater " it is easily dealt with. All it takes is for Patriot fans to make signs saying so and stand outside the CBS Scene at Gillette. See how that works for business?

People need to come to grips with the fact that the picks are gone. They went up in smoke the moment Kraft capitulated and there is no getting them back. Brady is going to win in the end but nothing will bring the picks back.

Ivan said:

People need to come to grips with the fact that the picks are gone. They went up in smoke the moment Kraft capitulated and there is no getting them back. Brady is going to win in the end but nothing will bring the picks back.

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Probably true but I choose to remain hopeful for two reasons:

(1) it would seem pretty silly (even to haters) to penalize the Patriots if/when Brady beats this;

(2) it's not necessarily good for NFL business to cripple the Patriots. Regardless of whether people love or hate them, they're ratings gold. When the Patriots go on the road, Pats fans follow and ticket prices soar (ever see a Pats game in San Diego?). Superbowl ratings shoot through the roof when the Pats are in it. All the NFL owners understand the value of ratings.

PatsGuy said:

i understand that Doty retired

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I heard that as well but looks like he is still active.

http://www.mnd.uscourts.gov/Judges/doty.shtml

FWIW my buddy's dad is a State judge and is also "retired" but still presides over cases that are specific to his area of expertise. He's no longer salaried, currently collects a pension and is paid per diem when he is in court.

I have no idea if federal judges are paid the same way after retirement.

robertweathers said:

I heard that as well but looks like he is still active.

http://www.mnd.uscourts.gov/Judges/doty.shtml

FWIW my buddy's dad is a State judge and is also "retired" but still presides over cases that are specific to his area of expertise. He's no longer salaried, currently collects a pension and is paid per diem when he is in court.

I have no idea if federal judges are paid the same way after retirement.

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judge doty has taken senior status, which means he's semi-retired.

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

Probably true but I choose to remain hopeful for two reasons:

(1) it would seem pretty silly (even to haters) to penalize the Patriots if/when Brady beats this;

(2) it's not necessarily good for NFL business to cripple the Patriots. Regardless of whether people love or hate them, they're ratings gold. When the Patriots go on the road, Pats fans follow and ticket prices soar (ever see a Pats game in San Diego?). Superbowl ratings shoot through the roof when the Pats are in it. All the NFL owners understand the value of ratings.

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I think it will go down exactly the way it did with the Saints, the league will ignore the sanctions being overturned and will keep the team penalties in place like they were right all along.

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

Starts with filing a complaint and seeking a TRO (temporary restraining order) to stay the suspension.

It's hard to predict the exact legal strategy because we have very limited access to the facts, what went down at the hearing, and we don't have a formal decision by Goodell on the appeal as of yet.

My concern is that Goodell's strategy may be to vacate all of Brady's penalties but uphold the fine and loss of picks against the Patriots. That way, Brady really has nothing to appeal and Goodell gets to screw the Patriots. This is how an evil and smart person would do it. . . Goodell has proven the evil part, I fear he may start listening to smart people.

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That's what I would do if I were Goodell (as awful a thought as that might be!!!!). I just don't think he's smart or strong enough to do it. He has owners and media looking for blood.