some specs on possible brady suit? from WaPo

FWIW our buddy Sharks seems to believe this leak by Brady's team suggests they are already aware of what Goodell will rule and it's not favourable.

And possibly because Brady's team refused to agree not to sue.

We'll see.

Wasn't Sharks wrong on everything up to the original Goodell/Vincent decision?

Citing SOV? That's worse than using Erika Lang as a source.

Did anyone catch that too :

From the article posted in the 1st post :
• The NFLPA plans to cite a specific example in oral arguments in an effort to prove Brady’s suspension was arbitrary. Last year, the league caught the Minnesota Vikings tampering with footballs by placing them in a dryer, a violation of the club manual. The team, the NFLPA source said, received a letter from the league and no further reprimand.

And then, they were also caught on tape heating up footballs in a game against the Panthers....or is this the same offense ?

But if this is 2 separate occurrences, how come they were not penalized for a 1st rounder too ?

betterthanthealternative said:

Congresspeople have very little time for reading, and generally read only what their staffs give them, which tends to be articles pertaining directly to the committee work they are doing, and stuff from their home district. Sad but true. WaPo just isn't read that broadly anymore, now that everyone has access to everything through their tablets.

Click to expand...

Didn't stop Arlen Spector ...Anything that gets them publicity is important to a politician......

RDS11 said:

Did anyone catch that too :

From the article posted in the 1st post :
• The NFLPA plans to cite a specific example in oral arguments in an effort to prove Brady’s suspension was arbitrary. Last year, the league caught the Minnesota Vikings tampering with footballs by placing them in a dryer, a violation of the club manual. The team, the NFLPA source said, received a letter from the league and no further reprimand.

And then, they were also caught on tape heating up footballs in a game against the Panthers....or is this the same offense ?

But if this is 2 separate occurrences, how come they were not penalized for a 1st rounder too ?

Click to expand...

What I like best about this particular argument is that it illustrates the extreme unreasonableness of the TEAM penalties against the Pats, $1 million fine (I could not care less Bobby Boy, GFY!) and most importantly to fans, the loss of valuable 1st & 4th round picks.

RDS11 said:

Did anyone catch that too :

From the article posted in the 1st post :
• The NFLPA plans to cite a specific example in oral arguments in an effort to prove Brady’s suspension was arbitrary. Last year, the league caught the Minnesota Vikings tampering with footballs by placing them in a dryer, a violation of the club manual. The team, the NFLPA source said, received a letter from the league and no further reprimand.

And then, they were also caught on tape heating up footballs in a game against the Panthers....or is this the same offense ?

But if this is 2 separate occurrences, how come they were not penalized for a 1st rounder too ?

Click to expand...

Why wasn't Bridgewater suspended for for games?

Patsfanin Philly said:

Didn't stop Arlen Spector ...Anything that gets them publicity is important to a politician......

Click to expand...

That's a perfect example, actually. I'd bet a month's salary that some member of his staff is an Eagle fan, still smarting from the SB loss, and pushed it in front of Spector, who saw the PR opportunity. I'd be quite surprised if he initiated the outrage in his office.

Last I heard Specter continues to push his case it's just in a different forum, a much hotter one IIRC.

shmessy said:

Agreed.

But I wasn't talking about the appeal. I was talking about the federal court case.

And a "right process" does not include KNOWINGLY propogating false measurement information and KNOWINGLY allowing it to remain in the public for almost 4 months without correction. Meanwhile, it is standard operating procedure for the NFL to correct what they see as a false information report within minutes (see; Schefter June 14).

That is a process problem.

Click to expand...

So was I, they will essentially be appealing the way in which the NFL went about sanctioning Brady, not the truth of the charges.

shmessy said:

Agreed.

But I wasn't talking about the appeal. I was talking about the federal court case.

And a "right process" does not include KNOWINGLY propogating false measurement information and KNOWINGLY allowing it to remain in the public for almost 4 months without correction. Meanwhile, it is standard operating procedure for the NFL to correct what they see as a false information report within minutes (see; Schefter June 14).

That is a process problem.

Click to expand...

That is no doubt a problem about how those things were done (I certainly agree with you about that) and, in that sense, they represent a problem with how things "proceeded," but that is not the same as the kind of narrowly-defined "process problem" on which Brady and the NFLPA have the standing to ask a court to rule.

The article is very clear and the best thing written yet, for its clarity alone. According to the article, the NFLPA plans to make five arguments:

1) Equipment handling rules don't apply to players
2) The Wells standard of "general awareness" has no legal merit
3) Since the rules don't apply to players, the CBA was violated because a punishment was imposed without precedence.
4) Brady's punishment was arbitrary because the League only sent a letter of reprimand in what the NFLPA will argue was a similar case last year
5) The NFL had no standard in place to measure the inflation of footballs, so the Wells' methodology was arbitrary.

The combination of 1) and 3) seem to be the strongest arguments.
The rest have to be viewed in the context of the fact that they are trying to overturn the results of a private arbitration:
2) works for me, but could be dismissed because of how vague the CBA is to begin with.
4) works for me, but I can see how it could deteriorate into an argument of "degree."
5) also works for me, but I could see a $1,000 an hour lawyer creating problems with it.

The biggest hurdle will be getting the "right judge" so that the case gets heard and is not dismissed because, as the article observes, "The bar for a federal court to reverse a private arbitration result is notoriously high;" a judge could decide not to hear the case and tell the League and the Players to get their act together and stop litigating everytime the ridiculous terms of their CBA come apart at the seams.

Minnesota or Massachusetts are probably the smart places to file this suit. I probably wouldn't do it in New York, Baltimore, Indy or Denver, just to name a few other venues.

PatsFanSince74 said:

That is no doubt a problem about how those things were done (I certainly agree with you about that) and, in that sense, they represent a problem with how things "proceeded," but that is not the same as the kind of narrowly-defined "process problem" on which Brady and the NFLPA have the standing to ask a court to rule.

The article is very clear and the best thing written yet, for its clarity alone. According to the article, the NFLPA plans to make five arguments:

1) Equipment handling rules don't apply to players
2) The Wells standard of "general awareness" has no legal merit
3) Since the rules don't apply to players, the CBA was violated because a punishment was imposed without precedence.
4) Brady's punishment was arbitrary because the League only sent a letter of reprimand in what the NFLPA will argue was a similar case last year
5) The NFL had no standard in place to measure the inflation of footballs, so the Wells' methodology was arbitrary.

The combination of 1) and 3) seem to be the strongest arguments.
The rest have to be viewed in the context of the fact that they are trying to overturn the results of a private arbitration:
2) works for me, but could be dismissed because of how vague the CBA is to begin with.
4) works for me, but I can see how it could deteriorate into an argument of "degree."
5) also works for me, but I could see a $1,000 an hour lawyer creating problems with it.

The biggest hurdle will be getting the "right judge" so that the case gets heard and is not dismissed because, as the article observes, "The bar for a federal court to reverse a private arbitration result is notoriously high;" a judge could decide not to hear the case and tell the League and the Players to get their act together and stop litigating everytime the ridiculous terms of their CBA come apart at the seams.

Minnesota or Massachusetts are probably the smart places to file this suit. I probably wouldn't do it in New York, Baltimore, Indy or Denver, just to name a few other venues.

Click to expand...

The one place I am see them working in the truth about the game balls is the discussion of the absence of league protocols for handling game balls and the absence of baseline to measure game balls during games.

Just posted by CSNNE:

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-pa...ce-reveals-plan-of-attack-on-brady-supsension

Interesting stuff. Logically, it stands to reason that someone shouldn't serve as both judge and arbiter, but that's essentially the power the CBA gives to Goodell. So legally, as that article states, it's a big stumbling block. If a judge were to take up the case the NFLPA has some very compelling arguments around precedence, procedures, etc, but that very first roadblock (getting a court to take the case) could prove insurmountable.

The infuriating thing is that, lawyers and unions and CBA's and legality aside, this is so, so clearly an overreach, a punishment far exceeding precedence for both not cooperating and for the act of tampering with footballs (Vikings/Panthers game, Chargers with stickum towels). Beyond that it's the act itself--deflating footballs--needs science to back it up because there's no smoking gun, and many experts have debunked the science done by Exponent. In the world of reason and logic this is laughed out of court and the judge vacates the team penalties. In the world we live in, however, it's almost impossible to argue the merits of the case in front of anyone independent given the absurd powers the CBA gave to Goodell.

So if the judge then doesn't allow the case to be heard, will Brady then due for defamation?

Ivan said:

Last I heard Specter continues to push his case it's just in a different forum, a much hotter one IIRC.

Click to expand...

Nah,he's still working on the "magic bullet" BS he conjured up.....

I'd have to think he could win a defamation suit.

The longer this goes the worse /goodell and the NFL look.

This is what the NFL should do. After Goodell's decision, the NFL owners should fire him, get rid of any Brady suspension/fine. Apologize to Brady and then apologize to all football fans for Roger Goodell. And then start fresh with someone new

Ian said:

Just posted by CSNNE:

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-pa...ce-reveals-plan-of-attack-on-brady-supsension

Click to expand...

Sorry, boss. Had to merge it.



The Kilgore article (that Curran references) came out yesterday.

Per NFL Insiders Vincent wanted to give Brady an EIGHT game suspension and Goodell overruled him.

Because he might have probably been sort of aware of something.