Report: No Suspension, or see you in court

TheBeers · Jul 15, 2015

I really hate Roger goodell

The Gr8est · Jul 15, 2015

sphen22 said:
http://nesn.com/2015/07/adam-schefter-tom-brady-decision-might-not-come-until-end-of-july/

Why am I not surprised, Schefter also still saying he thinks Brady will be playing Thursday night against the Steelers

So does that sound like the NFL* has been unable to get Brady to budge on not being willing to accept any punishment and intends to go to court, and the league is hoping to be able to persuade him if they have more to time?

To quote General Patton, "Nuts!"

363839 · Jul 15, 2015

To quote General Patton, "Nuts!"[/QUOTE]

The Gr8est said:
So does that sound like the NFL* has been unable to get Brady to budge on not being willing to accept any punishment and intends to go to court, and the league is hoping to be able to persuade him if they have more to time?

To quote General Patton, "Nuts!"

Wrong General...was General Tony McAuliffe.

varjao · Jul 15, 2015

I don't get the NFL strategy here, this only strength the argument that this is a sting, if this goes to court what's the justification for such a long time for a simple decision? If an arbitrator brings to light all the timed leaks and this it's gonna be difficult to keep denying bias.

Deus Irae · Jul 15, 2015

varjao said:
I don't get the NFL strategy here, this only strength the argument that this is a sting, if this goes to court what's the justification for such a long time for a simple decision? If an arbitrator brings to light all the timed leaks and this it's gonna be difficult to keep denying bias.

What's more interesting, in the overall, is the long term impact of the "Integrity" Ommissioner standing by lousy investigations based upon financial outlay rather than actual findings. That's pretty much the opposite of due process, after all.

YOUGOTMOSSED · Jul 15, 2015

Deus Irae said:
What's more interesting, in the overall, is the long term impact of the "Integrity" Ommissioner standing by lousy investigations based upon financial outlay rather than actual findings. That's pretty much the opposite of due process, after all.

Who is going to be held accountable for this whole fiasco? The NFL stepped waaaaaay over the line here. They're not going to admit they screwed this up. Even if they cave 100% (and we can be pretty darn sure that they're not), what assurance do we have that these shenanigans aren't going to continue in the future? This MUST go to court.

GaryfromTO · Jul 15, 2015

when this goes to court, will Bend Over Bob be testifying on Goodell's behalf as a character witness?

Deus Irae · Jul 15, 2015

YOUGOTMOSSED said:
Who is going to be held accountable for this whole fiasco? The NFL stepped waaaaaay over the line here. They're not going to admit they screwed this up. Even if they cave 100% (and we can be pretty darn sure that they're not), what assurance do we have that these shenanigans aren't going to continue in the future? This MUST go to court.

The NFLPA would have an argument that, as applied, the CBA discipline does not meet minimum acceptable due process standards. Every loss by Goodell would be used as part of the evidence.

pdangle · Jul 15, 2015

YOUGOTMOSSED said:
Who is going to be held accountable for this whole fiasco? The NFL stepped waaaaaay over the line here. They're not going to admit they screwed this up. Even if they cave 100% (and we can be pretty darn sure that they're not), what assurance do we have that these shenanigans aren't going to continue in the future? This MUST go to court.

I've said it before, NFL is not going to let this go to court where they WILL lose full control of the situation and the narrative. They will drop to 0 games. Try to impose some sort of large fine, and hope TB will comply. Ideally they will get TB to agree before they do anything.

But to answer your question above, if TB remains obstinate, and will not agree to anything, the NFL, right now, is deciding their options on exactly who WILL be held accountable. Or in other words, who is THE FALL GUY.

So if TB plays nice, 0 games, precedent setting large or multiple fine(s). No court. Strong language of accountability of players, yada-yada-yada, and no NFL blame.

TB plays hardball, 0 games, small with precedent fine, No court. Goodell blames it all on (holds accountable) a fall guy. Probable patsies, Wells, Exponent, Refs, Kensil, lack of proof, the players assoc, other minions, etc. Many to choose from to shower with blame.

This is going to be fun.

Deus Irae · Jul 15, 2015

YOUGOTMOSSED said:
Who is going to be held accountable for this whole fiasco? The NFL stepped waaaaaay over the line here. They're not going to admit they screwed this up. Even if they cave 100% (and we can be pretty darn sure that they're not), what assurance do we have that these shenanigans aren't going to continue in the future? This MUST go to court.

Deus Irae said:
The NFLPA would have an argument that, as applied, the CBA discipline does not meet minimum acceptable due process standards. Every loss by Goodell would be used as part of the evidence.

Just following this up, I saw another thread on the forum. The link in the thread takes up this notion:

“If they get to federal court, the whole procedure, the question is whether it was arbitrary and capacious,” said Alan Milstein, the lawyer who represented Maurice Clarett in his fight against the NFL. “It seems fairly clear it was.

“The commissioner, I thought, really made a poor choice in taking part – basically trying to become part of this arbitration. The best argument Brady has is that due process was lacking and the hearing was unfair...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ibly-start-week-1/?postshare=7971436995536489

Note the bold, because that's significant. It's also why using the other NFL appeals losses would be important.

patfanken · Jul 15, 2015

This has got me thinking, and that could be a problem in an of itself.

I think this is going to court because Brady's reputation has been tarnished almost beyond repair over NOTHING. But I think its going to take 2 court sessions to make it happen. First there will be a court case that covers the issue of the suspension itself. That, given past history and the merits of the case, is probably going to end well.

However if Brady is ever to fully win back the legacy he earned over 15 years of hard work and unparalleled success, he's going to have to win that defamation case. They say it's hard to prove defamation because merely reporting the wrong information that tarnishes someone's reputation isn't enough. You also have to prove malice.

So in my mind you not only have to sue the NFL, you have to sue ESPN. Mort's report was the spark that set this entire fiasco off and running. It's been since proven to be absolutely false and inaccurate. But that's not enough. But what IS enough is the fact that long after media knew that the report was completely false, they never chose to publicize the mistake with anything close to the vigor they used when it first hit the air. That's BOTH the league and ESPN.

Throughout this entire affair its been clear that ESPN (the league's biggest media partner) has been anything but "fair and unbiased". FOX news would be proud of the hatchet job they've done to Brady and the Pats.

So if Tom truly values the reputation he's built over the last 16 years and beyond, he will HAVE to go all the way with this. If he includes the media, who reported falsely and never recanted, as well as the league in this case, I think he'd have a decent chance (50-50) to win, and regain his legacy. Otherwise, he will ALWAYS have to deal with a life where deflategate and Tom Brady will be inseparable

YOUGOTMOSSED · Jul 15, 2015

Deus Irae said:
Just following this up, I saw another thread on the forum. The link in the thread takes up this notion:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ibly-start-week-1/?postshare=7971436995536489

Note the bold, because that's significant. It's also why using the other NFL appeals losses would be important.

I know from experience that courts are reluctant to find that an arbitrator's decision was "arbitrary and capricious" but I remain hopeful that, if it goes down this way, the court will rule that it was here because . . . it WAS "arbitrary and capricious" d%#*!@t!

Palm Beach Pats Fan · Jul 15, 2015

I have a hunch that there is one other reason why Goodell is not so eager for the lawsuit.

The NFL would LIKELY have to reveal what I think is a very embarrassing factoid about the Wells investigation. Based upon their own statements, the scientific firm hired by Wells (Exponent) was not the first group of scientists approached by Wells and the NFL to analyze the data. The first group of scientists approached was from Columbia U.

Did the Columbia profs reach a preliminary conclusion that Wells and the NFL found to be unacceptable, favoring the Patriots, so they were relieved of their duties and not even MENTIONED in the Wells report?

Imagine if they had to admit to this on the witness stand!

The choice for Goodell is
1) 0 games
2) anything else, and just HOPE that a judge says "it's a matter that management and labor need to solve without my help." Otherwise...POOF goes the case.

Tony2046 · Jul 15, 2015

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:
I have a hunch that there is one other reason why Goodell is not so eager for the lawsuit.

The NFL would LIKELY have to reveal what I think is a very embarrassing factoid about the Wells investigation. Based upon their own statements, the scientific firm hired by Wells (Exponent) was not the first group of scientists approached by Wells and the NFL to analyze the data. The first group of scientists approached was from Columbia U.

Did the Columbia profs reach a preliminary conclusion that Wells and the NFL found to be unacceptable, favoring the Patriots, so they were relieved of their duties and not even MENTIONED in the Wells report?

Imagine if they had to admit to this on the witness stand!

The choice for Goodell is
1) 0 games
2) anything else, and just HOPE that a judge says "it's a matter that management and labor need to solve without my help." Otherwise...POOF goes the case.

Question 1. So why did you re-inflate those footballs at halftime?

Question 2. Wasn't that your evidence that would have proven that someone tampered with them or not?

Question 3. So why did you choose to destroy the evidence by re inflating those footballs instead of using the backup footballs?

That will be fun to watch.

Tony2046 · Jul 15, 2015

patfanken said:
This has got me thinking, and that could be a problem in an of itself.

I think this is going to court because Brady's reputation has been tarnished almost beyond repair over NOTHING. But I think its going to take 2 court sessions to make it happen. First there will be a court case that covers the issue of the suspension itself. That, given past history and the merits of the case, is probably going to end well.

However if Brady is ever to fully win back the legacy he earned over 15 years of hard work and unparalleled success, he's going to have to win that defamation case. They say it's hard to prove defamation because merely reporting the wrong information that tarnishes someone's reputation isn't enough. You also have to prove malice.

So in my mind you not only have to sue the NFL, you have to sue ESPN. Mort's report was the spark that set this entire fiasco off and running. It's been since proven to be absolutely false and inaccurate. But that's not enough. But what IS enough is the fact that long after media knew that the report was completely false, they never chose to publicize the mistake with anything close to the vigor they used when it first hit the air. That's BOTH the league and ESPN.

Throughout this entire affair its been clear that ESPN (the league's biggest media partner) has been anything but "fair and unbiased". FOX news would be proud of the hatchet job they've done to Brady and the Pats.

So if Tom truly values the reputation he's built over the last 16 years and beyond, he will HAVE to go all the way with this. If he includes the media, who reported falsely and never recanted, as well as the league in this case, I think he'd have a decent chance (50-50) to win, and regain his legacy. Otherwise, he will ALWAYS have to deal with a life where deflategate and Tom Brady will be inseparable

Brady will do what he always does which is winning games and taking this team to the playoffs. 20 years from now people will have more of an idea of and appreciate what kind of elite player Brady was and this deflategate riff raff will have withered away to a quiet hum. Kind of like a squeaky ceiling fan. After a while don't even notice it anymore.

But as far fetched as it sounds, if Brady did sue both BSPN and the NFL and won....... I can't imagine what his legacy would be after that.....but nice to dream about.

The Gr8est · Jul 16, 2015

363839 said:
To quote General Patton, "Nuts!"

Wrong General...was General Tony McAuliffe.[/QUOTE]

Doh!

Well it is something that Patton WOULD have said if McAuliffe hadn't beaten him to the punch.

YOUGOTMOSSED · Jul 16, 2015

I feel like I'm looking forward to the lawsuit more than I am toward the NFL* season.

A part of me wonders, when the lawsuit is filed, if there is going to be an increased number of un-penalized late hits on Brady. A decrease in holding penalties for the o-lines of Patriots' opponents. Phantom PI calls on the Patriots defense. You know, the sort of things a cynical person would wonder about.

YOUGOTMOSSED · Jul 16, 2015

Spiral said:
I think that the leverage is a potential defamation lawsuit against the NFL, based on the false information they deliberately leaked prior to the SB. A case like that, with a venue in Massachusetts, could result in a nine-figure judgment. It would be bye-bye, Roger if that happened. No way he wants to take that risk.

The thought of Goodell spending the remainder of his days scrubbing toilets in Tijuana after his financial ruination caused by a gargantuan verdict by a super-pissed off MA jury puts me in a happy place.

Tony2046 · Jul 16, 2015

YOUGOTMOSSED said:
I feel like I'm looking forward to the lawsuit more than I am toward the NFL* season.

A part of me wonders, when the lawsuit is filed, if there is going to be an increased number of un-penalized late hits on Brady. A decrease in holding penalties for the o-lines of Patriots' opponents. Phantom PI calls on the Patriots defense. You know, the sort of things a cynical person would wonder about.

Same here except when week 6 gets here, there will be nothing more interesting than watching Brady wipe his .... with the Colts. I cannot wait for that game.

If you think about it in a weird way the NFL might have put a 300 pound chip on Brady's shoulder. Nothing better than a pissed off Brady for the entire season.

ausbacker · Jul 16, 2015

Almost everyone of reasonable intelligence seems to understand that the NFL vs. Brady is a losing battle other than the NFL.

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