Pro-Brady article in the NYT

shmessy said:

90% of the country is haters.

Goodell wins.

It has to go to a federal court.

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I used to think it would but now I'm no longer sure that this case will ever see the inside of a courtroom. I hope I am wrong.

The NFLPA might get lucky and find a very Progressive judge who would take the case as a chance to make a point about bad labor contracts, but the chances are just a good that the case will be assigned to a judge who will tell the NFLPA and the League to get its own house in order and stop bothering the courts every time its ridiculously bad CBA ends up with the parties in litigation.

At some point we have to face the fact that the Players and the Owners have several intractable differences, which will probably only be resolved as the result of lengthy strike and lockout. We were all so happy when the NFLPA and the League glossed over their differences last time and many of us, myself likely included, would have been complaining loudly had there been a strike.

But, the status quo cannot continue; sooner or later the players are either going to have to acknowledge that they are willing to accept "serf" status to keep the gravy train running or they are going to have to strike to assure that they have basic rights, including the unambiguous right to Appeal arbitrary penalties to an objective third party.

Pro Pats? HA

PatsFanSince74 said:

I have come to the simple conclusion that Goodell has two stark choices:

1) Throw Kensil, Wells, Vincent and himself under the bus by doing what virtually every objective observer now says is the right thing and not only exonerate Brady but also, as Sally Jenkins has observed, state that there is no evidence that a "crime" was committed in the first place.

2) Stand behind Wells, his staff and the five million of the owners' money he pissed away on this report.

As I have said in another thread, there is no way that he can do anything but stick to what Kensil, Vincent, Wells et al have perpetrated/fabricated. He'll probably reduce the suspension to a game or two, but leave the basic findings.

Everything else at this point is background noise.

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This media touted notion that he can't back down because the league spent $5 million on the report is either nonsense, or irrefutable evidence of a lack of sufficient due process via the NFL/NFLPA CBA. If it's the first, the issue is non-existent. If it's the second, the courts will kill the NFL for it, and it would be better for all concerned for the Omissioner to end things now.

Goodell has an easy out. All he has to say is that football PSI was an area that hadn't been studied by the league "in its long history", that the league hadn't implemented a rigorous system to deal with possible PSI changes as a result of weather conditions, that the PSI readings can't possibly be definitive because of the absence of such a system, and that there can be no punishment, as a result. This would allow him to use the many decades of NFL indifference in this area as a shield, and the issue would die down in about one news cycle.

He just won't take the out, in all likelihood, because he's a true believer and a crusader, which is why he should never have gotten the job in the first place.

PatsFanSince74 said:

I'm open to being (and indeed hope that I am) wrong on this, but I think that a Brady v. NFL "defamation case" is only "looming" in the minds of folks on this board. And, to the extent that he even thinks it might be looming, I imagine that Goodell would ascribe a low probability to its success. The bar for proving defamation is very high in the case of a public figure. I know that there are people out here who are convinced that the case would be strong, but both sides will have $1,000-per-hour lawyers duking it out and I wouldn't want to bet on the outcome.

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Leaks to Mortenson and the T. David Gardi letter to the Patriots with KNOWN INCORRECT PSi DATA that the NFL chose not correct for 4 months until the actual readings were published by Wells.

The NFL leaped to correct Adam Schefter within minutes regarding a far more minor reporting point in June.


Just remember, the "impartial NFL official" who adjudicated Brady and the Patriots penalties?

Yeah THIS guy who posted THIS within hours of handing down Tom Brady's penalty ;

Troy Vincent @TroyVincent23 · 4h4 hours ago
#Footballmatters.






Not to mention THIS from the NFL official twitter:





— NFL (@nfl) May 21, 2015





This is a very EASY defamation case.


.

Not to mention THIS from the NFL official twitter:





— NFL (@nfl) May 21, 2015





This is a very EASY defamation case.


.[/QUOTE]

are the head coaches they're referring to herm edwards , rich kotite and rex ryan ?

PatsFanSince74 said:

I'm open to being (and indeed hope that I am) wrong on this, but I think that a Brady v. NFL "defamation case" is only "looming" in the minds of folks on this board. And, to the extent that he even thinks it might be looming, I imagine that Goodell would ascribe a low probability to its success. The bar for proving defamation is very high in the case of a public figure. I know that there are people out here who are convinced that the case would be strong, but both sides will have $1,000-per-hour lawyers duking it out and I wouldn't want to bet on the outcome.

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I don't think he will be going for defamation I think he will be going for a law of shop ruling regarding abuse of power, discretion, and disregard for precedent he established. I think he wins that easily if he gets it heard. I agree with you on defamation and believe he would have gotten a different attorney if he was going that route. Kessler is a sports labor attorney and they will stick to labor laws.

There's no such thing as an easy defamation case, especially with a public figure. Which is why I doubt Brady goes that way.

Deus Irae said:

Goodell has an easy out. All he has to say is that football PSI was an area that hadn't been studied by the league "in its long history", that the league hadn't implemented a rigorous system to deal with possible PSI changes as a result of weather conditions, that the PSI readings can't possibly be definitive because of the absence of such a system, and that there can be no punishment, as a result. This would allow him to use the many decades of NFL indifference in this area as a shield, and the issue would die down in about one news cycle.

He just won't take the out, in all likelihood, because he's a true believer and a crusader, which is why he should never have gotten the job in the first place.

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While I think your situation is what Goodell should do, I am not sure that is actually an easy out. Sure it'll make us happy, but there are a lot of jealous, angry, bitter fans of other teams (including media lapdogs) that would be very critical.

As I said before, a lawsuit exposes the NFL's dirty laundry and only the league office really knows what they have in their laundry basket. If it's embarrassing, they'd have to throw out the suspension. If not, who knows what they'll do?

VectorPrime said:

There's no such thing as an easy defamation case, especially with a public figure. Which is why I doubt Brady goes that way.

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Of course in Brady's case what he is known for publicly, is the very thing he is being defamed about.

XLIX said:

While I think your situation is what Goodell should do, I am not sure that is actually an easy out. Sure it'll make us happy, but there are a lot of jealous, angry, bitter fans of other teams (including media lapdogs) that would be very critical.

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It's a very easy out. It kills legal issues, and it's a tempest in a teapot, as even the national media has seen. It would die down almost immediately.

Deus Irae said:

It's a very easy out. It kills legal issues, and it's a tempest in a teapot, as even the national media has seen. It would die down almost immediately.

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Considering this whole thing happened 6 months ago and we're still talking about it, I don't see how a radical reversal in punishment lets the issue die down almost immediately.

Hey I hope Goodell does what you suggested. If he had an ounce of integrity, which he does not, he would do what you say. I just don't think you realize the hatred that exists outside New England for the Patriots. Other fanbases and media outlets would not be happy, so the issue wouldn't just disappear.

Deus Irae said:

It's a very easy out. It kills legal issues, and it's a tempest in a teapot, as even the national media has seen. It would die down almost immediately.

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If anyone thinks this will go away forever, they're wrong. How Goodell decides this case will be the first line in the recap of his commissionership. If he's smart, he make sure he gets it right.

MagicMarker said:

If anyone thinks this will go away forever, they're wrong. How Goodell decides this case will be the first line in the recap of his commissionership.

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Not likely Dropped cases are almost always forgotten more easily, and quickly, than cases with controversial outcomes. That's been Goodell's smart play from the start. The idea that it's an unplayable move is ludicrous.

But Goodell is not a smart man.

Deus Irae said:

This media touted notion that he can't back down because the league spent $5 million on the report is either nonsense, or irrefutable evidence of a lack of sufficient due process via the NFL/NFLPA CBA. If it's the first, the issue is non-existent. If it's the second, the courts will kill the NFL for it, and it would be better for all concerned for the Omissioner to end things now.

Goodell has an easy out. All he has to say is that football PSI was an area that hadn't been studied by the league "in its long history", that the league hadn't implemented a rigorous system to deal with possible PSI changes as a result of weather conditions, that the PSI readings can't possibly be definitive because of the absence of such a system, and that there can be no punishment, as a result. This would allow him to use the many decades of NFL indifference in this area as a shield, and the issue would die down in about one news cycle.

He just won't take the out, in all likelihood, because he's a true believer and a crusader, which is why he should never have gotten the job in the first place.

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Agrees: (1) The "easy out." It's is a version of what Sally Jenkins said last week, which I referenced in my OP. Goodell can simply say that that the League isn't in the position to judge whether a "crime" was ever committed, in this case for the reasons you cited. (2) he won't take it because he's an idiot.

Disagree: I think that the $5 mill of penny-pinching owners' money is an issue.

Grey area: Not so sure it's all that clear that the courts will "kill the NFL" for lack of due process in the CBA. It's just as likely that a court could kick it back to the NFL and the NFLPA and tell them to get their house in order to the effect that, if the players have changed their mind about the process to which they agreed, they should renegotiate or strike.

shmessy said:

Leaks to Mortenson and the T. David Gardi letter to the Patriots with KNOWN INCORRECT PSi DATA that the NFL chose not correct for 4 months until the actual readings were published by Wells.

The NFL leaped to correct Adam Schefter within minutes regarding a far more minor reporting point in June.


Just remember, the "impartial NFL official" who adjudicated Brady and the Patriots penalties?

Yeah THIS guy who posted THIS within hours of handing down Tom Brady's penalty ;

Troy Vincent @TroyVincent23 · 4h4 hours ago
#Footballmatters.






Not to mention THIS from the NFL official twitter:

— NFL (@nfl) May 21, 2015





This is a very EASY defamation case.


.

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I've seen those arguments made out here multiple times over the past couple of weeks, citing the same evidence. I think they look "easy" through the eyes of a fan, but I'm not so sure that a court will see them the same way. I'm not claiming to know whether a Defamation suit will or will not succeed, I'm just not so sure that Brady's chances of success are so great that he will hang his hat on them.

Ivan said:

I don't think he will be going for defamation I think he will be going for a law of shop ruling regarding abuse of power, discretion, and disregard for precedent he established. I think he wins that easily if he gets it heard. I agree with you on defamation and believe he would have gotten a different attorney if he was going that route. Kessler is a sports labor attorney and they will stick to labor laws.

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It might or might not be "an easy win" (certainly easier than a defamation claim), but I think the most important words in your post are "if he gets it heard." That's where I worry that a judge will say, "enough is enough, it's time for you guys [NFL and NFLPA] to get your house in order and stop litigating every time your inadequate processes break down.

Easy out for Goodell...

1. Zero game suspension for Brady.

2. Return draft picks to Patriots.

3a. Up penalty payment by Kraft to amount equal to Wells report.

or

3b. Sue Wells for $5 mil for shoddy reporting thus putting NFL in a bad position.

Deus Irae said:

It's a very easy out. It kills legal issues, and it's a tempest in a teapot, as even the national media has seen. It would die down almost immediately.

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Your lips to god's ear. I only wish what you said was true, but while you could be absolutely correct in your position, it ignores 2 key points. One its a very rational position, and it has already been proven beyond any doubt that rationality has had NO place in this issue from the beginning. and secondly, this is a crap heap that the NFL has created from the very beginning of it. It was the NFL league office that chose to make this mole hill into Mt. Everest. They created the problem, they facilitated the myth, they have supported the phony science that kept the issue going, and they have done it consistently for 6 full months.

I don't think this is a position that they can back away from like Rosanne Rosannadanna with a simple "never mind" Actually I think that forcing Brady to go to court is EXACTLY where Goodell wants this thing to go. I think he KNOWS he will lose the case, but I think he's good with that. Partially because he KNOWS he's on the wrong side of the truth, but more importantly look what he's STILL gained.

1. All the penalties imposed on the Pats will still stand. We lost those draft picks the moment Kraft caved. The stain this has created for the Pats remains just as if it were real

2. He can go to his other 31 other owners and say, I tried to do the "right thing", but the courts are the courts. It's not the first time we've tried and failed in that arena.

3. If he offers Brady a reduction he can say he "tried" to be conciliatory, and compromise, but Brady wouldn't meet him half way.

4. As I understand it, the ONLY thing the Pats win if this goes to court and Brady wins, is that he won't miss a game, The stain would remain and nothing about the "truth" of this matter.....will matter. The sad fact is, that what is most likely to be lost when "the dust settles" IS the truth of why and how this entire "scandal" happened.

Sorry buddy, but your thoughts what will make this all go away might be very rational, but it is going to get filed under "VERY wishful thinking"