It's "could have been", not "could of been"

RelocatedPatFan · Jul 6, 2015

Well, to bring this back to sports (and football).

My teenage daughter and her friends use the term "versus" as in to compete or play against another team. Even better they typically use the term as a verb in the past tense, hence "versused". It drives me mildly nuts, but I'll admit that's a short trip.

Wax Frog · Jul 6, 2015

Mountain_Commando said:
"Pet peeve" IS my pet peeve. If it annoys you, why attach "pet" to it?

Peeves me off!

These grammatical flubs used to annoy me, but for the most part I've let go, and take an attitude of affectionate amusement instead. I'm too stubborn not to retain a few special irritants, but the rest could reasonably be called pets at this stage of my life

Wheelman · Jul 6, 2015

Wax Frog said:
These grammatical flubs used to annoy me, but for the most part I've let go, and take an attitude of affectionate amusement instead. I'm too stubborn not to retain a few special irritants, but the rest could reasonably be called pets at this stage of my life

I hope you'll continue to educate those in your social circle who do appreciate being corrected. I for one do appreciate when some corrects my grammatical/spelling errors and offers explanation in a respectful way. This thread is very educational. There are some phrases I don't use but heard being used that's been mentioned in here that I did not realize were being used incorrectly.

Wax Frog · Jul 6, 2015

Wheelman said:
I hope you'll continue to educate those in your social circle who do appreciate being corrected.

I certainly do and will! The key, as you suggest, is to offer correction only when it is desired.

Up until my mid-20s I could be a prick when it came to certain subjects in which I excelled, particularly spelling. For example, if I was the only one to know a Trivial Pursuit answer, I'd gloat and rub it in. I suspect this was my way of compensating for all the grade school bullying I'd endured.

Luckily I was also empathetic enough at the time that I eventually realized I was hurting feelings, and I changed my ways.

English grammar actually was a weakness of mine for a long time, but a happy side effect of my love affair with Tolkien's works, which lasted for nearly a decade starting in 1983, was the absorption of his writing structure. It seems that if I was to be an unwitting student, who better to teach me than an English professor on steroids?

I'm sure I still make plenty of subtle mistakes, and I turn a phrase poorly now and then, but overall I am much improved.

Yes, I admit it. I am deliberately applying what I've learned to this post. Some of that old smugness lingers

Tony2046 · Jul 6, 2015

raduray said:
And if your father were to post on this forum, would he use "would of" or "would have"?

Haha. Would it matter? I assume it would matter to you but it would not to me. I honestly do not care how eloquently someone speaks during a conversation. I do, however, respect those that can. I enjoy listening to seminars in which the speakers have the unique ability to engage an audience and lead them through a topic with an artistic flow of words that will keep them interested until the very end. On the other hand I also enjoy working with engineers who have the unique ability to construct a work of manufacturing art from a single idea created by a manufacturer's need. Go speak to an blue color guy in your town and regardless of how his grammar is or how imperfect his grasp of the english language is, you will probably laugh for at least a full hour all the while never caring about whether he said "could of" or "could have".

Grammar is important but the quality of the person you are speaking with and the value of their message is much more important.

IcyPatriot · Jul 6, 2015

Out-Physicaled ....
WTF with that non word.

Tony2046 · Jul 6, 2015

PatsFanInVa said:
Take the thread for what it is... (at least to me...) a bunch of English geeks having fun.

But I'll echo some other people here who have found themselves needing secret decoder rings on some posts. It's frustrating. It shows a poster's lack of respect for other people and themselves - I don't mean the slip or two that would get you a point or two off your essay for Mrs. Gittelson's homeroom class essay, I mean indecipherable screeds.

It's a good thread and has a lot of funny or humorous comments. I was simply pointing out that although grammar is important, it is not nearly as important as the quality of an individual or the message they are trying to convey. "Could of" or "could have" has zero value to me when communicating with someone. I do enjoy listening to someone who has the ability to speak intelligently and you will often catch me listening to the "road show" program on NPR during the weekends. Anyways, not offended at all, was just adding my two rusty cents.

Joker · Jul 6, 2015

and "turtley"...just what the hell is THAT supposed to mean, huh??? I can't even think of a way to work THAT into a sentence....oh....wait....

BelizePats · Jul 6, 2015

Tony2046 said:
So, I have literally read just about every comment in this thread. I could of read them all but past up on a few cause I ran out of time. Didjah understand that? Did I hit any nerves?

I grew up in a blue collar house hold and the idear behind the thought was what was important. Proper english or proper grammar was not a high priority and therefore I grew up using many of the grammar deficient phrases stated on this thread. My fathah was born and raised in an extremely poor household in northern NH. Built his first bike from parts from the junk "yahd" among other things and although he joined the Air Force without a high school diploma he went on to serve 30 years and retiring and earning two master degrees along the way. He improved his grammar but never lost his regional accent nor stopped using colloquial phrases because it was a part of who he was and where he was from. The idea behind the term grammar police is not for someone who (or is it whom?) politely corrects your grammar it is for those who act like snobs and think that speaking english in any way other than proper shows lack or class, respect or intelligence. Colloquial phrases or improper usage of the language can be cultural and rooted to the identity of a person from a particular region just as it is around the rest of the world. The best thing I got from my fathah wasn't a grammar lesson rather it was to be yourself, be honest and be respectful. I honestly do not care how someone phrases a statement or question when we are in a conversation because I am searching for the meaning or the idea behind it which more often than not can lead to something positive. Grammar is important but more important is the idea or message that man/woman is trying to convey.

Best thing I've read on this board in 3-4 months. Thank you Tony!

fumbrunner · Jul 6, 2015

RelocatedPatFan said:
Well, to bring this back to sports (and football).

My teenage daughter and her friends use the term "versus" as in to compete or play against another team. Even better they typically use the term as a verb in the past tense, hence "versused". It drives me mildly nuts, but I'll admit that's a short trip.

Oh I know. I am coaching my daughter's team and they do this all the time. Who are we "versing" today? They give me a mildly confused look when I tell them we are here to play soccer and not write poetry.

mgcolby · Jul 6, 2015

Can we get a sub-forum for the Red Seat ticket holders???

Oswlek · Jul 6, 2015

Tony2046 said:
I was simply pointing out that although grammar is important, it is not nearly as important as the quality of an individual or the message they are trying to convey

Therein lies the rub. Grammar isn't designed to be a weapon to beat over the heads of children and berate forum members, it is a set of guidelines to facilitate consistent communication. Obviously there are going to be local colloquialisms that pop up here and there, but something like "could of" is completely meaningless and unnecessary. It is an error without benefit. It would be like changing the definition of "hear" to include the meaning of "here" simply because so many people misspell it.

Someone earlier said that language is arbitrary, which is completely correct. But so is football, and that still has rules.

FWIW, I used to loathe English classes; it's only been recently that I've begun to appreciate the beauty and majesty of the written word. Once you get the bug, it is hard to brush off travesties like "should of."

ctpatsfan77 · Jul 6, 2015

PatsFanInVa said:
And another damn thing...

"If he were a receiver, he might have broken the record."
not
"If he was a receiver, he might have (or "might of") broken the record."

The subjunctive appears to be a lost cause.

Tony2046 · Jul 6, 2015

Oswlek said:
Therein lies the rub. Grammar isn't designed to be a weapon to beat over the heads of children and berate forum members, it is a set of guidelines to facilitate consistent communication. Obviously there are going to be local colloquialisms that pop up here and there, but something like "could of" is completely meaningless and unnecessary. It is an error without benefit. It would be like changing the definition of "hear" to include the meaning of "here" simply because so many people misspell it.

Someone earlier said that language is arbitrary, which is completely correct. But so is football, but that doesn't mean you don't have rules.

FWIW, I used to loathe English classes; it's only been recently that I've begun to appreciate the beauty and majesty of the written word. Once you get the bug, it is hard to brush off travesties like "should of."

There isn't a "rub" unless that is in your criteria used when judging others. To me it has absolutely zero value. I could care less. If someone told me, "you should of taken a right at the intersection because you would of saved yourself 30 minutes tah get tah the gahrage", I would have been grateful for that valuable piece of info and would have appreciated the guy spending the time informing me of my poor navigational skills but you imply that your reaction would be more in line of " Oh mah Gahd, did jah heah that grammah usage???" "I think I'm gonna have ahn aneurysm".

The way you speak and who you are for that matter is a product of where you live, how you grew up, the friends you acquired and various other environmental/genetic influences. Some people have the gift of gab and some do not. Those who do not may have other gifts just as impressive. To judge someone based on a few colloquial phrases or a mis-usage of "could of" instead of "could have" is just anal retentive in my view.

Oswlek · Jul 6, 2015

Tony2046 said:
There isn't a "rub" unless that is in your criteria used when judging others. To me it has absolutely zero value.

Cat. po,in...t: aopaust: Do'n'T.

Unless you agree that ^that^ is as equally valid and understandable as anything else written on this site, then you have the same criteria as anyone else, you're just lax in ways that others aren't. That's perfectly fine, of course, but what you get in freedom you lose in clarity.

Tony2046 · Jul 6, 2015

Oswlek said:
Cat. po,in...t: aopaust: Do'n'T.

Unless you agree that ^that^ is as equally valid and understandable as anything else written on this site, then you have the same criteria as anyone else, you're just lax in ways that others aren't. That's perfectly fine, of course, but what you get in freedom you lose in clarity.

You cannot create a BS sentence to support your "Could of, Could have" argument.

BUT if someone said that or posted that to me I would simply ask "what do you mean?" It's really that simple. OR you would not have to respond to it at all. OR you could politely correct their grammar errors.

I am proud of you though. You didn't bite on my "could care less" bait. haha

ctpatsfan77 · Jul 7, 2015

IcyPatriot said:
Out-Physicaled ....
WTF with that non word.

Off The Grid · Jul 7, 2015

Rob0729 said:
Although proper grammar dictates that the proper way to say it is "could have", every day conversation allows for "could of". I think that is allowed on a message board.

Off The Grid said:
Wrong. Sorry, Rob, but you are dead wrong. Respectfully submitted.

What is so damned difficult about typing "could've"???

ctpatsfan77 said:
To be fair, Rob is correct in the sense that there is no English-language equivalent of the Académie Française to dictate how English should be written, let alone spoken. (There is a notion of Standard Written English, but that is more of a consensus than a dictate; and while "I ain't goin'" isn't correct grammar in Written English, it's perfectly understandable when spoken allowed.)

I agree with you, however, that there is no logical grammatical sense in which "could of" is acceptable.

I would argue that you and Rob are misapplying things. More importantly, though, you are dramatically mistaking my point: I never even remotely suggested that Conversational American English couldn't or shouldn't be transcribed, as it were, to Written American English.

After all: The Spoken Language came first, and the Written Language is essentially our collective attempt to keep up. The entire Written Language is, ultimately, an ongoing attempt at such Transcription.

I've argued many times that the Dictionary is more of a Record and a Guide than a Rule Book, and there isn't a Soul on this entire Site who transcribes the Spoken Language into the Written Language more aggressively or relentlessly than me. How could you've possibly missed the fact that I'm The Man of 1000 Contractions? So for you to imply that I, of all people, was arguing against such Transcription is preposterous.

People don't say " could of". They say "could've."

Yet some write "could of"...because they're Donkeys.

There is no colloquial Value to "could of".

It is not an Expression or a Figure of Speech.

It's just Gibberish.

Off The Grid · Jul 7, 2015

Rob0729 said:
Unless you are calling someone else for being stupid or something like that, I just don't give a crap about grammar or spelling on a message board. Maybe it is just me.

Maybe it is because I so desperately want to write "supposably" instead of "supposedly".

Fair enough, Rob. At one point, I thought I might have to hire a Speech Therapist to lose the childhood habit of saying "Nuclear", so you're in Good Company, Bro!!

Off The Grid · Jul 7, 2015

ctpatsfan77 said:
I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help. . . .
—KJV, Psalm 121

I pray to Jesus that you're not referencing that Fairy Tale writing as a Supportive Argument.

It's "could have been", not "could of been"

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Pro Bowl Player

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

PatsFans.com Supporter

Wall of Fame

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Supporter

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

In the Starting Line-Up

Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!!

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Supporter

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Supporter

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Similar threads