Bradshaw on Deflating Footballs

JMC00 · Jun 26, 2015

hambone1818 said:
I get what you're saying but do you see a difference between submitting footballs overinflated (say, 14 psi) to the refs hoping they don't gauge them, and deflating footballs after the refs approve them?

I get that Rodger's comments speak to gamesmanship with the footballs, trying to 'put one over' on the refs. But there's nothing illegal with submitting them high. There is something illegal with tampering with them after the fact.

(and if it has to be said, I DON'T believe the Pats illegally deflated the footballs, I'm speaking purely about equating Rodger's comments with what the Patriots were accused of doing)

Except the balls submitted to the refs are suppose to be 12.5-13.5, submitting them overinflated while knowing the rule is not gamesmanship it is deliberately breaking the rule and hoping the refs don't notice it.

If camerainthewronplacegate is considered cheating then purposely overinflating footballs hoping the refs don't catch it is cheating.
'
If Brady went on record saying he submitted illegally inflated footballs hoping to get them past refs. there would have been an investigation and at the very least he would be fined for admitting to it and the mediots would go on and on about how Brady admits he cheats.

But Rodgers does it and it is not a big deal and just gamesmanship

Enough with this double standard.

Froob · Jun 26, 2015

*Sixburgh.

eom · Jun 26, 2015

hambone1818 said:
I get what you're saying but do you see a difference between submitting footballs overinflated (say, 14 psi) to the refs hoping they don't gauge them, and deflating footballs after the refs approve them?

I get that Rodger's comments speak to gamesmanship with the footballs, trying to 'put one over' on the refs. But there's nothing illegal with submitting them high. There is something illegal with tampering with them after the fact.

(and if it has to be said, I DON'T believe the Pats illegally deflated the footballs, I'm speaking purely about equating Rodger's comments with what the Patriots were accused of doing)

Is this actually a serious post or a troll post?

hambone1818 · Jun 26, 2015

eom said:
Is this actually a serious post or a troll post?

Completely serious. Take the team out of it...the footballs are submitted to the refs for approval. So maybe it's not in the 'spirit of competition' to submit the balls high, maybe by the letter of the law it's actually illegal to do so (though I'd contend that it isn't, since the rule says "The referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications"). But to me, it's gamesmanship: they know the referees are supposed to inspect the footballs, worst case they get warned for making the refs do extra work to get the balls to comply.

After the balls have been approved by the ref for gameplay, it's outright tampering to do anything to them at that point. Not at ALL worthy of the penalties the Pats got hammered with--nevermind that they didn't even do it--but I think at worst Rodgers is breaking a 'spirit of the rule' type thing while a team tampering with footballs after the ref approves them is breaking an actual rule.

Listen, I've been just as adamant as others on here about the ridiculousness of this entire thing, of the science exonerating the Pats, of the double standard the Pats have to deal with. But in theory a ball being submitted to the ref high is different from a ball being deflated/inflated after the ref has approved it. That's all I'm saying.

DarrylS · Jun 26, 2015

Zolak has in the past talked about this extensively and this responsibility, working the footballs, would fall upon the back up quarterback... he went through great lengths detailing what he did on Saturdays before a game day.

Through all of this brouhaha, do not recollect anyone speaking to one of our former back ups.. that might be telling.

Deus Irae · Jun 26, 2015

hambone1818 said:
Completely serious. Take the team out of it...the footballs are submitted to the refs for approval. So maybe it's not in the 'spirit of competition' to submit the balls high, maybe by the letter of the law it's actually illegal to do so (though I'd contend that it isn't, since the rule says "The referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications"). But to me, it's gamesmanship: they know the referees are supposed to inspect the footballs, worst case they get warned for making the refs do extra work to get the balls to comply.

After the balls have been approved by the ref for gameplay, it's outright tampering to do anything to them at that point. Not at ALL worthy of the penalties the Pats got hammered with--nevermind that they didn't even do it--but I think at worst Rodgers is breaking a 'spirit of the rule' type thing while a team tampering with footballs after the ref approves them is breaking an actual rule.

Listen, I've been just as adamant as others on here about the ridiculousness of this entire thing, of the science exonerating the Pats, of the double standard the Pats have to deal with. But in theory a ball being submitted to the ref high is different from a ball being deflated/inflated after the ref has approved it. That's all I'm saying.

Both would be trying to get 'illegal' footballs into the game, in willful contravention of the rules.

eom · Jun 26, 2015

hambone1818 said:
Completely serious. Take the team out of it...the footballs are submitted to the refs for approval. So maybe it's not in the 'spirit of competition' to submit the balls high, maybe by the letter of the law it's actually illegal to do so (though I'd contend that it isn't, since the rule says "The referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications"). But to me, it's gamesmanship: they know the referees are supposed to inspect the footballs, worst case they get warned for making the refs do extra work to get the balls to comply.

After the balls have been approved by the ref for gameplay, it's outright tampering to do anything to them at that point. Not at ALL worthy of the penalties the Pats got hammered with--nevermind that they didn't even do it--but I think at worst Rodgers is breaking a 'spirit of the rule' type thing while a team tampering with footballs after the ref approves them is breaking an actual rule.

Listen, I've been just as adamant as others on here about the ridiculousness of this entire thing, of the science exonerating the Pats, of the double standard the Pats have to deal with. But in theory a ball being submitted to the ref high is different from a ball being deflated/inflated after the ref has approved it. That's all I'm saying.

So, intentionally sneaking in illegal equipment for the purpose of gaining an unfair competitive advantage by playing with illegal equipment is no big deal.

OK

I guess it's only breaking the rules if you get caught.
Or stop to pee.

PatsFanSince74 · Jun 26, 2015

NJPatsfan26 said:
Rogers will not be investigated because his name isnt Brady and dosent play on the Pats

But it sure will be fun when Jeffrey Kessler subpoenas him and has him testify under oath and penalty of perjury when Brady goes to court...What? You don't think that's not exactly what they're going to do?

hambone1818 · Jun 26, 2015

(not trying to derail the thread sorry!)

eom said:
So, intentionally sneaking in illegal equipment for the purpose of gaining an unfair competitive advantage by playing with illegal equipment is no big deal.

OK

I guess it's only breaking the rules if you get caught.
Or stop to pee.

Intentionally submitting equipment out of specs is less sinister, in my eyes, than taking already-approved equipment and tampering with it. We're talking about semantics here but whether it's pre-approval or post-approval matters, at least to me. In one case you're hoping the refs don't check, in the other you know they already have and are adjusting their approved equipment.

And regarding this:
I guess it's only breaking the rules if you get caught.
Honestly, it kind of is. And I'm fine with that. Do you hit 70, 75, 80 mph in your car? You're 'cheating'...but it only 'matters' if you're pulled over. Every single player and team bends some rule in some fashion every week, some bigger (PED's) than others (unapproved cleats). If you get caught you take your medicine and move on.

Problem here--as I've said, I'm only repeating so people don't get the impression I'm bashing the Pats in any way--is the double standard, the completely outrageous penalty, and the fact they didn't do anything in the first place. But in theory tampering after the fact is worse, to me, and in theory if a team is caught doing it they should be punished.

Deus Irae · Jun 26, 2015

hambone1818 said:
Intentionally submitting equipment out of specs is less sinister, in my eyes, than taking already-approved equipment and tampering with it. We're talking about semantics here but whether it's pre-approval or post-approval matters, at least to me. In one case you're hoping the refs don't check, in the other you know they already have and are adjusting their approved equipment.

By the rules, you are required to turn in the footballs at the proper pressure. Rodgers is breaking the rules.

4 games

Silver Blue&Red · Jun 26, 2015

PatsFanSince74 said:
that article made the rounds early in the saga back in january and february, but thanks for reposing.

He's always posing. He's so into himself.

DaBronxPats14 · Jun 26, 2015

NJPatsfan26 said:
Rogers will not be investigated because his name isnt Brady and dosent play on the Pats

And NFL* is trying so hard to replace Brady as face of League. First it was Rodgers who failed couldn't get it done after his SB win. Mediots and everyone were all over his jock, next best thing since white bread.
Then they shoved P.Manning down our throats with Papa John commercials for NFL* slighted Brady. I don't know what was worse, PJ Pizza or PM! Manning with a stacked Broncos team NOT Once But Twice could not get it done but who did, thats right Tom Brady, Pats. Nothin more than Brady, Pats Winning, Success is best revenge. Now lets get one for middle finger.

eom · Jun 26, 2015

hambone1818 said:
(not trying to derail the thread sorry!)

Intentionally submitting equipment out of specs is less sinister, in my eyes, than taking already-approved equipment and tampering with it. We're talking about semantics here but whether it's pre-approval or post-approval matters, at least to me. In one case you're hoping the refs don't check, in the other you know they already have and are adjusting their approved equipment.

And regarding this:
I guess it's only breaking the rules if you get caught.
Honestly, it kind of is. And I'm fine with that. Do you hit 70, 75, 80 mph in your car? You're 'cheating'...but it only 'matters' if you're pulled over. Every single player and team bends some rule in some fashion every week, some bigger (PED's) than others (unapproved cleats). If you get caught you take your medicine and move on.

Problem here--as I've said, I'm only repeating so people don't get the impression I'm bashing the Pats in any way--is the double standard, the completely outrageous penalty, and the fact they didn't do anything in the first place. But in theory tampering after the fact is worse, to me, and in theory if a team is caught doing it they should be punished.

And when I'm doing 70 in a 55 I am fully aware and acknowledge that I am breaking the rules of the road -- I don't go thru verbal gymnastics to make it look like I'm any better than the guy that got pulled over.

Deliberately and willfully using illegal equipment is CHEATING, to use the word as has become customary parlance

supafly · Jun 26, 2015

NJPatsfan26 said:
Always liked Bradshaw, so i can see his sense of humor on this.

Doubt anyone in the media will care.....

Particularly due to the last sentence.

Bradshaw has been pretty fair regarding his comments re: steroid use, etc. I hate the Steelers, but Bradshaw hasn't come off with a "holier than thou" attitude like some others.

PatsFanSince74 · Jun 26, 2015

Silver Blue&Red said:
He's always posing. He's so into himself.

Man, ya gotta be careful around here. I'll be more careful with my futures poses!

PatsFanSince74 · Jun 26, 2015

DaBronxPats14 said:
And NFL* is trying so hard to replace Brady as face of League. First it was Rodgers ...
Then they shoved P.Manning down our throats ...

Why do you think they brought Tim Tebow back!

AQPE · Jun 26, 2015

supafly said:
Particularly due to the last sentence.

Bradshaw has been pretty fair regarding his comments re: steroid use, etc. I hate the Steelers, but Bradshaw hasn't come off with a "holier than thou" attitude like some others.

May have something to do with the number of funerals of teammates he's had to attend.

DaBronxPats14 · Jun 26, 2015

PatsFanSince74 said:
Why do you think they brought Tim Tebow back!

I Hear Ya! Now Luck is their boy. And soon it will be Mariota on deck while Brady just keeps on winning.

PATSYLICIOUS · Jun 26, 2015

Thank you for sharing. I cannot wait for the next steeler fan to mention deflategate around me.

QuantumMechanic · Jun 26, 2015

PATSYLICIOUS said:
Thank you for sharing. I cannot wait for the next steeler fan to mention deflategate around me.

It won't work. They'll quote -- not unreasonably -- the final bit of that paragraph where Bradshaw says it was only a "perceived advantage" because both teams used the same balls (which was the case back then).

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