NFLPA files complaint re: Butler

FourierSeries said:

I can't believe some of you are being so soft about this. Who cares if other teams/fans hate us for this ****? Our team has always thrived on this and they love playing the "us against the world" card.

The penalty for this won't be that harsh.

Time to embrace the villain role.

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Someone should update this and replace Kraft.

If you're argument starts with something like "The Pats could argue that" or "it's easy to make the argument that" then you have zero credibility here and are just a homer.

People citing the league's inconsistent enforcement and unfair treatment of certain teams with regards to X totally irrelevant and arbitrary grievance can be similarly ignored. Woody Johnson and the tampering rules have exactly zero to do with whether or not Malcolm Butler was mistreated by the Pats. The rules were bargained for so that Coaches can't require OTAs and punish players for missing them, covertly or otherwise. The Pats getting theoretically screwed over with Revis doesn't mean they get to turn around and do whatever they like to Malcolm Butler. That's such a stupid notion on such a basic level that you wouldn't think it need be spelled out.

And this was mentioned in the other thread, but was probably not read or understood, but the "you can't just come and go as you please" refrain would have some merit if the "repercussion" was geared around the pragmatism of easing a player in who missed the start. It very clearly wasn't.

SVN said:

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/boston/chat/_/id/51864

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This is so ****ing dumb it defies belief. The whole point of the NFLPA is to side with the players where they can't stand up individually for themselves. Malcolm Butler, who is trying to make the team and impress the coach, isn't going to file a grievance against said coach or publicly complain. Stop. The. Presses.

FourierSeries said:

I can't believe some of you are being so soft about this. Who cares if other teams/fans hate us for this ****? Our team has always thrived on this and they love playing the "us against the world" card.

The penalty for this won't be that harsh.

Time to embrace the villain role.

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I do like the drama But it seems like the Patriots always get the short end of the stick...

Chiuba E. Obele said:

I do like the drama But it seems like the Patriots always get the short end of the stick...

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Doesn't seem that way to me.

I bet Kraft is pissed and isn't taking this lying down. He's a real fighter.

I'm sure the NFLPA will be intimidated when Kraft stands up and starts banging his sneakers on the table.

Wildo7 said:

Woody Johnson and the tampering rules have exactly zero to do with whether or not Malcolm Butler was mistreated by the Pats. The rules were bargained for so that Coaches can't require OTAs and punish players for missing them, covertly or otherwise. The Pats getting theoretically screwed over with Revis doesn't mean they get to turn around and do whatever they like to Malcolm Butler. That's such a stupid notion on such a basic level that you wouldn't think it need be spelled out.

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People don't need to argue the nfl front office's favorite owner. Which if you don't think after he only got fined $100k and Brady got suspended for being a "repeat offender" that there isn't a clear bias then you are clearly a jests fan. Also how about Suh's suspension for being a repeat offender being overturned because he had gone a season without incident?

But people don't need to argue those because they can argue two other examples that have happened recently.

Shonn Greene cut by the Titans on the first day of mini-camp after he made it known he wouldn't be attending. A player skipping voluntary workouts and being released is prohibited by the CBA. Titans could argue they were gonna release him anyways but they did it on the first day of voluntary workouts and they knew he wasn't coming. If the NFLPA is gonna file a complaint against the Pats for Butler, they too then need to file a complaint against the Titans for cutting Greene on the first day of workouts even if their argument is "we were gonna do it anyway". Verbatim from the CBA " or that a player’s failure to participate in a workout program or classroom instruction will result in the player’s failure to make the Club"



Then you have Dante Fowler getting injured in rookie mini-camp while he was pass rushing against an Offensive Lineman who was blocking, both pass rushing and blocking are prohibited by the CBA in rookie mini-camp. That happened almost 2 months ago, no complaint filed against the Jaguars. There is also clear video evidence of the incident.

FourierSeries said:

Doesn't seem that way to me.

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There goes that grin again.

The NFLPa is complaining the Patriots violated this part of the CBA: “No Club official may indicate to a player that the Club’s offseason workout program or classroom instruction is not voluntary (or that a player’s failure to participate in a workout program or classroom instruction will result in the player’s failure to make the Club or result in any other adverse consequences affecting his working conditions).”

Did the team tell Butler OTAs were not voluntary? Nothing has come out saying that happened.

Did they tell Butler failing to 'participate' in a workout would result in Butler not making the team? Nope. That it would have any adverse consequences? Nope. Pay is the same. He is a second year UDFA that is opening practice with the first team. No games going on, so he wasn't suspended. He wasn't forced to do anything he didn't want to. So what are the adverse consequences affecting his working conditions?

JMC00 said:

People don't need to argue the nfl front office's favorite owner. Which if you don't think after he only got fined $100k and Brady got suspended for being a "repeat offender" that there isn't a clear bias then you are clearly a jests fan. Also how about Suh's suspension for being a repeat offender being overturned because he had gone a season without incident?

But people don't need to argue those because they can argue two other examples that have happened recently.

Shonn Greene cut by the Titans on the first day of mini-camp after he made it known he wouldn't be attending. A player skipping voluntary workouts and being released is prohibited by the CBA. Titans could argue they were gonna release him anyways but they did it on the first day of voluntary workouts and they knew he wasn't coming. If the NFLPA is gonna file a complaint against the Pats for Butler, they too then need to file a complaint against the Titans for cutting Greene on the first day of workouts even if their argument is "we were gonna do it anyway". Verbatim from the CBA " or that a player’s failure to participate in a workout program or classroom instruction will result in the player’s failure to make the Club"



Then you have Dante Fowler getting injured in rookie mini-camp while he was pass rushing against an Offensive Lineman who was blocking, both pass rushing and blocking are prohibited by the CBA in rookie mini-camp. That happened almost 2 months ago, no complaint filed against the Jaguars. There is also clear video evidence of the incident.

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Yeah, see, whether there is a bias against the Pats and whether they deserve to get punished for ****ing over Malcolm butler and violating the CBA are two totally different issues. I think it's ****ed up that they (and whoever else) are deliberately undermining what labor bargained for and circumventing the rights of the player. And I hope they get deservedly punished for it, because they deserve it. Then I also hope that the NFLPA and or the league consistently punishes everyone for it. The former isn't and shouldn't be dependent on the latter.

Sticky Caulk said:

The NFLPa is complaining the Patriots violated this part of the CBA: “No Club official may indicate to a player that the Club’s offseason workout program or classroom instruction is not voluntary (or that a player’s failure to participate in a workout program or classroom instruction will result in the player’s failure to make the Club or result in any other adverse consequences affecting his working conditions).”

Did the team tell Butler OTAs were not voluntary? Nothing has come out saying that happened.

Did they tell Butler failing to 'participate' in a workout would result in Butler not making the team? Nope. That it would have any adverse consequences? Nope. Pay is the same. He is a second year UDFA that is opening practice with the first team. No games going on, so he wasn't suspended. He wasn't forced to do anything he didn't want to. So what are the adverse consequences affecting his working conditions?

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SVN said:

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/boston/chat/_/id/51864

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This is interesting to me. In the #BradyAppeal thread there was some back and forth debating whether the NFLPA could file suit against the NFL without Brady's participation. I assumed that at the very least that the NFLPA would exert some pressure and compel Brady to file. It appears that the NFLPA has the standing to file even without a player's consent to participate.

If that is the case, I bet that the outcome of the appeal doesn't matter - the NFLPA sees the case as a gift to containing and/or degrading the Commissioner's disciplinary policies and procedures.

wow. By the time it's over they'll dock us a draft pick for taping our OWN walkthroughs

shmessy said:

Mark Daniels @MarkDanielsPJ
I should add that a team would lose a fourth-round pick if "two separate violations occurred in the same league year" regarding OTAs


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Ha, ha! Well this wouldn't be a worry!!!!

Can't chop off an already armless man's arm.

.

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Isn't a team that loses its entire draft for a year supposed to get Ricky Williams?

Wildo7 said:

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Yeah. Great argument. I don't think I've ever used the ignore list, but you seem to be a great place to start.

Next up, the NFLPA is gonna file another one on the Patriots for continuously making players play over 18 games for the past 4-5 seasons in a row.

Kdo5 said:

Frankly an additional reason that I'm annoyed with Bill about this is that he should have realized the spotlight is on us and we are the whipping boys for the NFL and the media. Why draw any more negative attention? It achieved nothing whatsoever aside from sitting out our (likely) best cornerback when we are already paper thin at the position.

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You need to read up on Greek tragedies where the hero with all his capabilities is always brought down to Earth by a fatal character, etc. flaw. That's BB. He suffers fools badly.

Wildo7 said:

Yeah, see, whether there is a bias against the Pats and whether they deserve to get punished for ****ing over Malcolm butler and violating the CBA are two totally different issues. I think it's ****ed up that they (and whoever else) are deliberately undermining what labor bargained for and circumventing the rights of the player. And I hope they get deservedly punished for it, because they deserve it. Then I also hope that the NFLPA and or the league consistently punishes everyone for it. The former isn't and shouldn't be dependent on the latter.

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From the "I don't care, I can't stand it" thread

Wildo7 said:

It is straight up embarrassing that we have a sizable population of fans that think Brady is anywhere near as good as Manning let alone better than him.

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From the Pats/Chiefs game thread (weirdly enough the only game thread you posted in last season)

Wildo7 said:

Brady is a bottom 5 QB

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Wildo7 said:

Brady is finished and belichick has turned into a conservative moron punting on 4th and 1 in their half of the field for like 25 yards of field position that's immediately given up on the next play. Worried doesn't cover it, it's rebuild time.

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Now piss off, troll.

primetime said:

You can't punish someone in any way for skipping or missing something that is explicitly voluntary. You can't treat a voluntary activity as mandatory and punish someone accordingly. It's literally in the CBA, and this was a cut-and-dry violation of that.

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It isn't a punishment. The coach has the right, in a voluntary workout, to use whomever he wants for whatever reason he wants.

If I'm the coach, I say this: "The player wasn't punished. I assigned him certain duties that I believed would most support his development as a football player. I will continue to assign players to duties as I believe will advance their development. Making this judgment is at the core of my responsibilities as a coach, as it is for every coach, of every sport."

It's a voluntary activity. Does everyone that shows up, make the field? I don't get it. I'm sure there are other players who aren't on the field for weeks, be it low on depth chart or not mentally ready, etc. I really can't see how the PA can tell a team who can see the field. He wasn't held out of activities completely. The NFL is just so politically correct anymore. Nothing is spared from the "oh poor me" BS.