NFLPA files complaint re: Butler

Maybe if we don't talk about it, it will go away.

Here's the Dante Fowler video that no one said peep about. Sure looks like a pass rush with contact by the tackle. Pretty sure thats illegal in minicamp.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...ick-dante-fowler-suffers-apparent-knee-injury

Sort of off topic, but somewhat related.

Anyone else kind of enjoy this villain role we've taken on? I mean, our team has always been hated due to our success, but it seems like the hate has intensified lately. And I kind of like it.

We do whatever the f&ck we want.

Deus Irae said:

I didn't miss your point. Your point doesn't exist in this discussion. You tried manufacturing one because you're being an emotional Patriots homer instead of a rational and objective human being. This is not a case of misbehavior during drills.

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Just because something is voluntary doesn't mean you can show up late. There are still rules in place. This isn't homerism: it is a fact about the structure of the English language. A volunteer firefighter doesn't get to do anything he wants at a fire: he still needs to follow the usual rules of being a good firefighter, such as showing up on time when called in. If you don't, there will be consequences.

He wasn't punished for skipping OTAs, after all. If he were, then you throwing out the word 'voluntary', as if that settled it, would actually be germane. But in this case it's just a red herring. The real question is whether the punishment fits the crime (or whether the "transgression" merited any consequences at all).

"No I'm not running a lap because I fumbled -- this is voluntary! This violates the CBA....Whaaahhhh"

Wheelman said:

I don't fully agree. He could essentially just be considered down on the depth chart and didn't get any reps. The only counter to this is he wasn't on the sidelines either.

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Actually, the rating you gave my post shows that you COMPLETELY disagreed.......

And do your REALLY think that "He could essentially just be considered down on the depth chart and didn't get any reps."???????

You even answered that "....he wasn't on the sidelines either".

So, exactly what is your argument here?

There's no conflict here. They are two different cases where the players union is representing the player on a violation of the CBA. Just an ironic coincidence (and BB was too heavy handed in kicking Butler out for 3 weeks if he missed a flight because of weather).

FourierSeries said:

Sort of off topic, but somewhat related.

Anyone else kind of enjoy this villain role we've taken on? I mean, our team has always been hated due to our success, but it seems like the hate has intensified lately. And I kind of like it.

We do whatever the f&ck we want.

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No I absolutely hate it because we didn't do anything to warrant such a reputation.

Two thoughts:

1. The Patriots are clearly not allowed to punish Butler by banning him from the voluntary OTAs. So are they allowed to ban him from them for no reason at all? Claiming that they are would seem to be the main defense.

2. Perhaps the Patriots' position is instead that participation is an all-or-nothing thing. I.e., if they banned him from 3 voluntary practices, that's punishment. But if they simply don't let anybody participate who didn't show up on time -- well, he simply didn't meet the requirements for participation.

That could be the reason they banned him from the whole thing.

Brady2Moss said:

Fk this league, its unions, and everyone involved that isn't a NEP. I'm done with this league when BB and Brady retire, if I even make it that long. Good God look where we are.

Whose starting the Patriots lose 2016 2nd round pick and BB suspended 4 games thread?

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This will just be some fine or they have to remove a practice or something as punishment, it's not a big deal.

The union would never pursue or want to support the loss of draft picks because it would hurt future members of their union

Personally, I feel there's a difference between punishing someone for declining to attend a voluntary event (which the Patriots did not do), and punishing them within the context of the activity for showing up late. That said, if the language in the CBA covers discrepancies like that, it would be irresponsible for the NFLPA not to file a complaint.

There is, by the way, some kind of right-to-work-out. Steve McNair's grievance, which he won, is precedent. I'm not sure how relevant that is or isn't to this somewhat different case.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/635198720/Grievance-filed-on-McNairs-behalf.html?pg=all

ctpatsfan77 said:

Yeah, I can see an argument for that day (no time to warm up, etc., etc.), but why did it go beyond the first day?

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I see where the NFLPA is coming from, and they have to be like viscous hounds on this kind of stuff because it could set precedent...

But if the Patriots wanted to get into semantics, they could just argue that they didn't punish him. . He was participating in all the meetings and workouts, but when it comes to the on field activities, it's 100% up to the coaches to decide how many reps, if any, they want to give to the players.

They could also argue they wanted to focus on and get a better look at the rookies and new free agents to get them up to speed, they were already comfortable with where Butler was at as far as these level of activities go

This isn't a big deal anyways, BB and the Pats will get a little slap on the wrist fine and that will be that.

FourierSeries said:

Sort of off topic, but somewhat related.

Anyone else kind of enjoy this villain role we've taken on? I mean, our team has always been hated due to our success, but it seems like the hate has intensified lately. And I kind of like it.

We do whatever the f&ck we want.

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I don't really like it because it gets old. You just feel the need to constantly defend your team from neanderthals that don't have a f***ing clue even if you stapled one to their stupid face

When was the last time there was a positive news story of this team?

shmessy said:

Actually, the rating you gave my post shows that you COMPLETELY disagreed.......

And do your REALLY think that "He could essentially just be considered down on the depth chart and didn't get any reps."???????

You even answered that "....he wasn't on the sidelines either".

So, exactly what is your argument here?

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There's no partially disagree button. But since I mostly disagree I used the disagree button. I'm just stating my opinion and thoughts. There's no reason why the coaches can't set the depth chart and reps each player gets as they see fit.

I may have missed some details about this. But from what I heard, Butler was still present at the voluntary workouts. Did he not continue to attend meetings during this time period? I thought the 'punishment' was not being allowed to practice on the field? Is it mandatory that all players be allowed to practice on the field if they show up for OTA's?

varjao said:

I thought the punishment was excessive if that's what really happened, we don't know whether BB's intentions regarding Butler were to watch film from the beginning, anyway, it surprises me because BB knows the rules from the inside out.

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I agree. I think BB does go out of his way sometimes to say FU to the established order. Still, as Mario Andretti reputedly said, if you don't come back just carrying your steering wheel, you're not trying.

Michael McCann@McCannSportsLaw

NFLPA grievance over Patriots benching Malcom Butler for missed voluntary practice is all about precedent & not letting other teams do this.

Fencer said:

2. Perhaps the Patriots' position is instead that participation is an all-or-nothing thing. I.e., if they banned him from 3 voluntary practices, that's punishment. But if they simply don't let anybody participate who didn't show up on time -- well, he simply didn't meet the requirements for participation.

That could be the reason they banned him from the whole thing.

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He was on the field before the end of OTAs.

Kdo5 said:

This ones on Belichick. Love the guy but this whole thing was stupid in the first place.

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Bill stepped out of bounds on this one. If he made Malcolm sit for a day none of this would have happened..

raduray said:

Michael McCann@McCannSportsLaw

NFLPA grievance over Patriots benching Malcom Butler for missed voluntary practice is all about precedent & not letting other teams do this.

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When it comes to setting a precedence, this freaking team is made an example of every goddamn time.

Its almost like the oldest of 4 children. We'll punish you because you can handle is but also we want to set an example of you for the other kids.