Mike Florio: Goodell Underling(s) Were Out to Get the Patriots

Dr Pain said:

These are words that may resonate with the AG who does have the right to send a letter to the NFL telling the NFL to explain what they did. There are literally billions of gambling dollars at stake in the Super Bowl and no reasonable person can deny that the false information the NFL presented, would not have negatively affected the Patriots preparation. The first Casino in Massachusetts opened just today.

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I like where you're going here

I think the combined effect of the Gardi letter to the Patriots, and the "11 of 12 footballs 2 psi low" leak to Mortensen, forced the Patriots to scramble for an entire week. They had 14 days to prepare for the biggest sporting event of the year, and half of them were largely dedicated to investigating ball deflation and answering questions from the media--Belichick's comment about spending way more time on the science of footballs bears that out. Three press conferences at the end of the week, based on information that was demonstrably false, information that only people inside the NFL offices knew to be false. Questions to players over and over, both before and during SB week, couldn't have helped things.

The official statement launching the Wells investigation did nothing to deter those rumors, and while a leak to Peter King contradicted the Mortensen leak the cat was out of the bag and the NFL did nothing to shift the narrative from "11 of 12 footballs 2 psi under" to something more truthful and far less damaging in the publics view.

If Arlen Specter believes taping sidelines from an illegal location is worthy of Congress' time then I think the NFL ginning up a controversy prior to the biggest sporting and betting event of the year might be of interest to the AG.

hambone1818 said:

I like where you're going here

I think the combined effect of the Gardi letter to the Patriots, and the "11 of 12 footballs 2 psi low" leak to Mortensen, forced the Patriots to scramble for an entire week. They had 14 days to prepare for the biggest sporting event of the year, and half of them were largely dedicated to investigating ball deflation and answer questions from the media--Belichick's comment about spending way more time on the science of footballs bears that out. Three press conferences at the end of the week, based on information that was demonstrably false, information that only people inside the NFL offices knew to be false. Questions to players over and over, both before and during SB week, couldn't have helped things.

The official statement launching the Wells investigation did nothing to deter those rumors, and while a leak to Peter King contradicted the Mortensen leak the cat was out of the bag and the NFL did nothing to shift the narrative from "11 of 12 footballs 2 psi under" to something more truthful and far less damaging in the publics view.

If Arlen Specter believes taping sidelines from an illegal location is worthy of Congress' time then I think the NFL ginning up a controversy prior to the biggest sporting and betting event of the year might be of interest to the AG.

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Exactly.

Actively trying to influence the outcome of a Super Bowl (and it's gambling lines) is a FAR GREATER "damage to the integrity of the Shield" than the unproven Deflategate.

I agree with you that the government should be interested in a league that would conduct activity using knowingly wrong information to affect the outcome of its championship game.

This, truly, is what it all comes down to.

,

In fact, there was a lot of questionable calls on the NFL last year, Cowboys x Lions, then Cowboys x Packers. As any major league, there is a lot of gambling going on, I just don't think the NFL does something in this matter, they can influence games for other reasons. I just think they would lose too much in money and public if something dirty came up. Anyway you have to think, if they had any interest in forcing the Patriots to swallow all those distractions, it would be to make them underdogs, increasing the income in case of a Patriots victory, and betting in them, not in the Seahawks, that's how it works in this world. In a very balanced match, you don't move the lines to make one favorite, you push the other to be more of an underdog, increasing the odd value. If they wanted the Seahawks to win that ref would call a pass interference on "the pick". So it kind of make sense in a Pro-Pats way but I think is too much of a reach.

The parity argument is also weak for me as people generally don't get tired of dynasty, they get anxious to see someone beat the guys on top.

I think the goal was really sabotaging the Patriots short term (possibly starting the season 0-4 or 1-3) and long term (the draft picks) for whatever reasons they have. Angry, envy, Jets connections, Colts connections, Belichick.

sb1 said:

Maybe I'm being paranoid but this thought did cross my mind when I saw the story about the Jets game and the footballs being 16 PSI.

Was that an accident as a result of game officials not caring a whit about air in a football? OR were they pumped up that way on purpose as a result of someone deliberately attempting to impact Brady throwing the football.

I also wonder if Wells started to dig at that and other things but was told to back off.

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Pats-Jets, October 16th, was a 27-25 win for the Patriots. Head ref was Bill Leavy, who's obviously worked in the NFL forever. He's from California, no connection to NY/the Jets/Goodell in any way.

There's nothing there, imo...the reason they were inflated like a balloon is because the refs generally don't care, maybe we squeezed a few of them and they felt low so he gave each of them a couple pumps. Gametime temp was 64 with 93% humidity, I think that heavy air would have impacted the psi in a positive (i.e. high/inflated) manner but I could be wrong.

Either way, that 16 psi Jets game isn't any kind of grand conspiracy imo.

The criminal aspect of this to me is that Brady is being fined almost two million dollars for something that there is no proof of ever happening, let alone any involvement by him. Regardless of the CBA that is an abuse of power and discretion that should be illegal no matter what venue it takes place in. As a worker in the state of Massachusetts he should be afforded protection against that kind of abuse. The AG should be looking into the conspiracy by the NFL to defraud Brady of salary he is completely entitled to. I'm no lawyer but there has to be something that protects workers from this kind of abuse.

Ivan said:

The criminal aspect of this to me is that Brady is being fined almost two million dollars for something that there is no proof of ever happening, let alone any involvement by him. Regardless of the CBA that is an abuse of power and discretion that should be illegal no matter what venue it takes place in. As a worker in the state of Massachusetts he should be afforded protection against that kind of abuse. The AG should be looking into the conspiracy by the NFL to defraud Brady of salary he is completely entitled to. I'm no lawyer but there has to be something that protects workers from this kind of abuse.

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Brady can take care of himself. Keep this focused on if there was an attempt to influence the largest sports betting event in the United States. If you think about that, it makes sense. Did someone bet a ton on the Seahawks to win it all in the SB at the start of the year? The Patriots were heavy favorites over the Colts. Was this was a set up with disinformation to throw the Patriots into disarray to gift the SB to the seahawks to make sure the bet pay off? We don't know do we but it certainly does fit together quite nicely. The AG must be concerned about any potential attempt to influence the SB through deception occurring in her state at a time when legalized gambling is just starting. She has every right to ask the question why this happened.

Makes one wonder what the game would have been like if the Pats hadn't been distracted.

Thank goodness for the Butler. Can you imagine what this would be like if the Pats had lost the game due to all this distraction?

betterthanthealternative said:

Makes one wonder what the game would have been like if the Pats hadn't been distracted.

Thank goodness for the Butler. Can you imagine what this would be like if the Pats had lost the game due to all this distraction?

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Yup, Belichick and staff had to devote more than 3 of the 7 days during the one week lead-up to the trip to the Super Bowl location to deal with information that the league KNOWINGLY furnished to the Patriots and the public that was false.

The league knowingly furnished incorrect information. They HAD THE DATA. They propogated something OTHER than the data they had.

This is a layup.

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Dr Pain said:

Brady can take care of himself. Keep this focused on if there was an attempt to influence the largest sports betting event in the United States. If you think about that, it makes sense. Did someone bet a ton on the Seahawks to win it all in the SB at the start of the year? The Patriots were heavy favorites over the Colts. Was this was a set up with disinformation to throw the Patriots into disarray to gift the SB to the seahawks to make sure the bet pay off? We don't know do we but it certainly does fit together quite nicely. The AG must be concerned about any potential attempt to influence the SB through deception occurring in her state at a time when legalized gambling is just starting. She has every right to ask the question why this happened.

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We disagree, I think the more salient point is the scheme to defraud Brady and believe that is far easier to demonstrate than an argument based upon gambling.

betterthanthealternative said:

Makes one wonder what the game would have been like if the Pats hadn't been distracted.

Thank goodness for the Butler. Can you imagine what this would be like if the Pats had lost the game due to all this distraction?

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But how do you prove " distraction, " especially when they won the game?

Ivan said:

But how do you prove " distraction, " especially when they won the game?

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Distraction is simple. focusing your time and effort on a task that is not relevant to the stated goal. In this case, anything that isn't about preparing the team for the Superbowl. Granted, there might be some "down" time 2 weeks prior to the SB, but does BB actually believe in down time?

RelocatedPatFan said:

Distraction is simple. focusing your time and effort on a task that is not relevant to the stated goal. In this case, anything that isn't about preparing the team for the Superbowl. Granted, there might be some "down" time 2 weeks prior to the SB, but does BB actually believe in down time?

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They won the game, I don't see how you can prove harm was done by distraction. I think there is a clear conspiracy to defraud Brady of two million in salary he is entitled to and that can be readily proved. The league does not have so much as one ball that was tampered with as evidence and put out misinformation to condemn Brady and allowed it to sit out there for months uncontested when they knew n the date they leaked was untrue.

Ivan said:

They won the game, I don't see how you can prove harm was done by distraction. I think there is a clear conspiracy to defraud Brady of two million in salary he is entitled to and that can be readily proved. The league does not have so much as one ball that was tampered with as evidence and put out misinformation to condemn Brady and allowed it to sit out there for months uncontested when they knew n the date they leaked was untrue.

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With respect to the OP (apologies for the distraction from topic)
"Cut the chatter Red 2. Accelerate to attack speed."

and lastly, "Stay on target" - meaning there's plenty of other threads to discuss Brady. Th OP intends to talk about the league here and I can respect that.

I think the next few weeks are going to answer alot of questions regarding the concerns brought up in this thread. The whole science thing about if the balls were deflated has been answered many times over. Goodell has to realize he has no foot to stand on regarding this. I am interested to see if he still tries to hold Bradys feet to the fire regarding his so called "non-cooperation". If/when this goes to federal court, I think Brady has a very strong argument and has a strong case to turn it around and throw this at the feet of the NFL and put them on the defensive. Maybe this was already brought up in the appeal, but if anyone asks Brady why he didnt turn over his phone, he was a very simple answer. THE NFL COULD NOT BE TRUSTED. The NFl allowed the bogus psi findings to sit out in the media for months and did nothing to refute the bogus claims. All the while they preached about the integrity of the game. If I was Tom I would simply say the NFL could not be trusted and the only was I could protect any further lies and bogus claims to come out was to not turn over my phone. And if the NFL wont back down, simply ask them why they never denied the false PSI rating when they knew it was a lie and maybe even go as far as to ask the judge to bring in Mortenson and get him under oath to find out who he got the leak from. I cant speak for the NFL, but that should scare the crap out of them.

RelocatedPatFan said:

With respect to the OP (apologies for the distraction from topic)
"Cut the chatter Red 2. Accelerate to attack speed."

and lastly, "Stay on target" - meaning there's plenty of other threads to discuss Brady. Th OP intends to talk about the league here and I can respect that.

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The OP is about wrongdoing by the league office, that debate isn't limited to the gambling aspect.

Amazing feat by Bellichick winning the Super Bowl while under ambush by the NFL and the entire media and scorned by most of the population.
Greatest coach ever.

Ivan said:

We disagree, I think the more salient point is the scheme to defraud Brady and believe that is far easier to demonstrate than an argument based upon gambling.

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It is about what the AG could concern herself with. Ensuring that the most bet on sports event in the United States is more in line with what an AG would concern themselves with vs an individual labor law issue.

Dr Pain said:

It is about what the AG could concern herself with. Ensuring that the most bet on sports event in the United States is more in line with what an AG would concern themselves with vs an individual labor law issue.

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I think fraud is more than a "labor issue." As I see it the league office and Ted Wells engaged in an effort to defraud Tom Brady out of almost two millions in salary. They knew he was innocent from the beginning and conspired to frame him despite no evidence of wrongdoing or his guilty. And they did so to further there own agenda.

hambone1818 said:

Pats-Jets, October 16th, was a 27-25 win for the Patriots. Head ref was Bill Leavy, who's obviously worked in the NFL forever. He's from California, no connection to NY/the Jets/Goodell in any way.

There's nothing there, imo...the reason they were inflated like a balloon is because the refs generally don't care, maybe we squeezed a few of them and they felt low so he gave each of them a couple pumps. Gametime temp was 64 with 93% humidity, I think that heavy air would have impacted the psi in a positive (i.e. high/inflated) manner but I could be wrong.

Either way, that 16 psi Jets game isn't any kind of grand conspiracy imo.

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Levy is linked to the NYJ/NFL Crime Family alright. A horrible record of officiating...terrible SB. Is negligent in the preparation and measurement of footballs and is PROMOTED to supervisor of NFL Officials.

He may not be a button man but hes on the take. He knows something and they shut him up.

Kenneth Sims said:

The fact that would do so only speaks to the corruption being covered.

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The NFL offices giving up their non-profit was insignificant as has been pointed out before. It has no impact whatsoever on the -teams-.