Official Brady Appeal Thread: D-Day Tuesday June 23rd

Chiuba E. Obele said:

But I do find it kinda amusing that the NFL* is turning down reporters craving for a leak lol

mike freemanVerified account‏@mikefreemanNFL
The NFL is remaining extremely tight lipped on Brady hearing. No leaks, on or off the record. For now, total silence.

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I had to stop following Mike Freeman.

He became unbearable and trollish over Deflategate.

goheels22002 said:

My guess is that a significant amount of that 10.5 hours was Ted Wells answering questions about the report from Jeffrey Kessler, Don Yee and the bride of Frankenstein lady who was a lawyer for the NFLPA

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I call her Mrs Beetleguice.

smurfalarm said:

In fairness to Florio, this kind of rings true. Probably pretty much everyone in that room was working for the commissioner's office, the NFLPA/Brady, or Wells. There aren't any neutral parties here, which is what makes this appeal so stupid and unfair in the first place. ***snip***

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The funny/sad thing is we know this to be true, but the commish/his office is supposed to be the neutral party. It's the only way he can truly be an 'independent arbiter', which we all know isn't the case. I doubt anyone from the NFL is the source of the latest 'Brady not credible' leak, that's almost surely coming from Wells' camp (even using the same 'not credible' language he used repeatedly in the report), but obviously none of us trust Goodell to 'do the right thing' here, if ever he cared about what was right and just.

Taking that a step further, how dumb are the NFLPA reps that they've allowed Goodell to retain his role as judge, jury, arbiter and executioner? Do we really have much faith in them to not bungle this given how badly they've been rolled over by the owners during CBA negotiations? NFL players have--by FAR--the least leverage and freedom of the major US sports, and it's their players associations lack of teeth that's allowed that to happen. I trust Kessler, based on his track record, but not the jokers in the NFLPA.

uh oh, looks like the NFL was not as impressed with Brady's testimony yesterday. one league source said he was not credible.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...action-to-tom-brady-testimony-not-as-glowing/

TommyBrady12 said:

looks like the NFL was not as impressed with Brady's testimony yesterday

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...action-to-tom-brady-testimony-not-as-glowing/

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They have handled this so poorly from the start they have painted themselves into a corner and will not budge in a significant way. And the majority of fans, blinded by schadenfreude and jealousy, will be satisfied.

It is truly mob rule, and the courts are the only hope for anything approaching true justice. I hope Brady pushes it that far.

TommyBrady12 said:

uh oh, looks like the NFL was not as impressed with Brady's testimony yesterday. one league source said he was not credible.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...action-to-tom-brady-testimony-not-as-glowing/

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How's that "gag order" working out?

TommyBrady12 said:

uh oh, looks like the NFL was not as impressed with Brady's testimony yesterday. one league source said he was not credible.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...action-to-tom-brady-testimony-not-as-glowing/

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When pressed on certain facts relating to Brady’s potential knowledge or involvement, the answers were regarded by some in the room (i.e., some who aren’t paid to exonerate Brady) as not entirely credible.

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That's a lot different from a flat "not credible", particularly when followed up with

Apparently, Brady’s case hinged heavily on attacking the science, under the broader umbrella of taking the position that: (1) he didn’t do anything wrong; and (2) Ted Wells can’t prove that Brady did.

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Four random "day after" thoughts.

1) I'd been thinking of putting on my #12 Jersey and walking from my apartment to 345 Park yesterday. Now, I wish I had since I'd have gone via Lexington and, once I saw the small crowd on that side of the building, I'm pretty sure I'd have figured that Brady would enter there to avoid the media circus on Park. Would love to have been able to live post a pic of him here.

2) The fact that I posted 1) above shows how little there is to discuss today, doesn't it?

3) If Brady and his team did as well as the few snippets that have come out suggest they did, then the NFL is probably aware that he has a very strong case should this end up in Federal Court and that the "science" in their report is worthless. Their defense would have to hang entirely on Shop Law.

4) The problem is that Goodell is not only surrounded daily by the morons who work for him (who have a huge stake in his not exonerating Brady) but he's also going to be getting an earful everyday from jealous owners who want to be sure he's still going to "throw the book at that guy." Since Roger has already amply demonstrated that he's not a Profile in Courage, it's going to be hard for him to back down.

TommyBrady12 said:

uh oh, looks like the NFL was not as impressed with Brady's testimony yesterday. one league source said he was not credible.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...action-to-tom-brady-testimony-not-as-glowing/

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what do you expect them to say? the only good thing about this is that it could open the floodgates for leaks from Brady's camp. These guys really are dumb, aren't they?

PatsFanSince74 said:

Four random "day after" thoughts.

1) I'd been thinking of putting on my #12 Jersey and walking from my apartment to 345 Park yesterday. Now, I wish I had since I'd have gone via Lexington and, once I saw the small crowd on that side of the building, I'm pretty sure I'd have figured that Brady would enter there to avoid the media circus on Park. Would love to have been able to live post a pic of him here.

2) The fact that I posted 1) above shows how little there is to discuss today, doesn't it?

3) If Brady and his team did as well as the few snippets that have come out suggest they did, then the NFL is probably aware that he has a very strong case should this end up in Federal Court and that the "science" in their report is worthless. Their defense would have to hang entirely on Shop Law.

4) The problem is that Goodell is not only surrounded daily by the morons who work for him (who have a huge stake in his not exonerating Brady) but he's also going to be getting an earful everyday from jealous owners who want to be sure he's still going to "throw the book at that guy." Since Roger has already amply demonstrated that he's not a Profile in Courage, it's going to be hard for him to back down.

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I'd be careful with #3, jumping to conclusions based on some 'leaked info'. Everything we saw from yesterday suggests Schefter was relaying info fed to him by someone in Brady's camp; it's incredibly unlikely that the '4-hour rebuttal window' e-mail would have been given to him by anyone not on Brady's side, and the glowing remarks afterward (about both Brady's testimony and Kraft's written affidavit) suggest Schefter was speaking with a Brady rep.

The NFL is silent, which is to be expected given how leaky they were in the past and the imminent threat of a suit--possibly for defamation. The counter leak that Florio just wrote about (Brady's testimony 'not entirely credible) almost certainly came from Wells' camp, he has his own interests to protect and one thing he did in his report is paint Brady and the Patriots as less than forthcoming and honest.

Long story short, just like we told everyone not to jump to conclusions about leaked info and biased media when this story first broke, we should be doing the same here. We've gotten snippets from various angles but they don't paint a full picture, unless this goes to court we'll likely never know what went on in the meeting yesterday.

Am I the only one who couldn't care less about this dog and pony show?

We knew the outcome the minute the suspension was handed down:
- Appeal
- Goodell drops it to 2/1 games
- Brady takes them to court
- Suspension nullified.

I hate to be a downer for anyone holding out hope that it ends here, but it's not going to happen.

Goodell has staked his entire reputation on deflated footballs. We've all known, since the minute Bob Kravitz went after his five-minutes of fame, that science is the explanation for any shenanigans here, but Goodell has turned this into a career case for himself, ignoring logic for the stupidity of all the jealous fanbases.

This only ends if Brady folds, not the other way around. Goodell would rather take a loss in court and say "Well, I tried" than to admit wrongdoing. After the Ray Rice fiasco, there's no way he's going before the public for a second time and saying "I got it wrong, again".

Sit back, expect Brady's suspension to drop to a game or two, and watch as Tom takes this to court. This was the road minute the Troy Vincent went ahead to get his cheap standing ovation at Park Ave.

Todd Bradley said:

Am I the only one who couldn't care less about this dog and pony show?

We knew the outcome the minute the suspension was handed down:
- Appeal
- Goodell drops it to 2/1 games
- Brady takes them to court
- Suspension nullified.

I hate to be a downer for anyone holding out hope that it ends here, but it's not going to happen.

Goodell has staked his entire reputation on deflated footballs. We've all known, since the minute Bob Kravitz went after his five-minutes of fame, that science is the explanation for any shenanigans here, but Goodell has turned this into a career case for himself, ignoring logic for the stupidity of all the jealous fanbases.

This only ends if Brady folds, not the other way around. Goodell would rather take a loss in court and say "Well, I tried" than to admit wrongdoing. After the Ray Rice fiasco, there's no way he's going before the public for a second time and saying "I got it wrong, again".

Sit back, expect Brady's suspension to drop to a game or two, and watch as Tom takes this to court. This was the road minute the Troy Vincent went ahead to get his cheap standing ovation at Park Ave.

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I think maybe the most important point of all is that Goodell punishments get consistently overturned in court... and nobody cares. If people actually made a big deal out of how Goodell clearly steps outside his authority in the CBA at every possible opportunity--as demonstrated by his consistent failures in court--maybe he would have incentive not to do that again.

And yet, despite that being the real issue with his tenure as commissioner, nobody cares about that. Because it requires just a little bit of actual critical thought, and frankly most people are just too stupid to manage that. If Goodell knows that he has an out where he won't face any blowback, of course that's the route he's going to take.

What I do find really interesting, though, is the idea that maybe, once the Deflategate punishment is overturned just like all his other ones have been, maybe then the public's attention will turn to his track record in court. At that point, we might actually be looking at the end of Goodell.

BradyFTW! said:

I think maybe the most important point of all is that Goodell punishments get consistently overturned in court... and nobody cares. If people actually made a big deal out of how Goodell clearly steps outside his authority in the CBA at every possible opportunity--as demonstrated by his consistent failures in court--maybe he would have incentive not to do that again.

And yet, despite that being the real issue with his tenure as commissioner, nobody cares about that. Because it requires just a little bit of actual critical thought, and frankly most people are just too stupid to manage that. If Goodell knows that he has an out where he won't face any blowback, of course that's the route he's going to take.

What I do find really interesting, though, is the idea that maybe, once the Deflategate punishment is overturned just like all his other ones have been, maybe then the public's attention will turn to his track record in court. At that point, we might actually be looking at the end of Goodell.

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I also find it amazing that people think the right thing for Goodell to do is punish someone who doesn't deserve it so the court can tell him he f-ed up.

PatsFanSince74 said:

The standard invoked by Vincent to assess the Penalties he chose to apply to Brady's alleged actions is based on Paragraph 15 (the "Integrity of the Game" clause) of Appendix A of the CBA which gives the power to the Commissioner to penalize a player who "is guilty of any other form of conduct reasonably judged [my emphasis] by the League Commissioner to be detrimental to the League or professional football."

Unfortunately, there is no limit placed on the standards that the Commissioner can use when he asserts that he has "reasonably judged" that a particular action is "detrimental..."

How the NFLPA agreed to this nonsense in the first place is beyond me.

Then, if you read through the CBA, you find frequent references to the "preponderance of evidence" [again, my emphasis] standard as justification for reaching one conclusion or another in a variety of matters.

Finally, if you go to Vincent's ruling, you find that he cites both the "Preponderance of Evidence" stipulation and Paragraph 15 of Appendix A as his justification for his findings.

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Clearly Vincent doesn't know the CBA because the statements regarding "a clear preponderance of the evidence" can only be found in Articles 12 (Revenue Accounting and Calculation of the Salary Cap), 14 (Enforcement of the Salary Cap and Rookie Compensation Pool) and 17 (Anti-Collusion). That's it. Neither of those things apply to this situation. Furthermore, it is up to the complaining party to provide that clear preponderance of evidence, which the NFL, most certainly, did not do.

As for the Paragraph 15 of Appendix A citation, they league violated that because they clearly didn't give Brady a hearing before administering punishment, which that paragraph specifically says..

"... the Commissioner will have the right, but only after giving Player the opportunity for a hearing at which he may be represented by counsel of his choice, to fine Player in a reasonable amount; to suspend Player for a period certain or indefinitely; and/or to terminate this contract."

I'm no lawyer, but giving what amounts to a deposition is significantly different than a hearing, which is what happened yesterday.

Seems clear to me that the league violated it's own due process..

The Brandon Five said:

How's that "gag order" working out?

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Well, at least we now know that Mike Kensil was at the hearing.

DaBruinz said:

Clearly Vincent doesn't know the CBA because the statements regarding "a clear preponderance of the evidence" can only be found in Articles 12 (Revenue Accounting and Calculation of the Salary Cap), 14 (Enforcement of the Salary Cap and Rookie Compensation Pool) and 17 (Anti-Collusion). That's it. Neither of those things apply to this situation. Furthermore, it is up to the complaining party to provide that clear preponderance of evidence, which the NFL, most certainly, did not do.

As for the Paragraph 15 of Appendix A citation, they league violated that because they clearly didn't give Brady a hearing before administering punishment, which that paragraph specifically says..

"... the Commissioner will have the right, but only after giving Player the opportunity for a hearing at which he may be represented by counsel of his choice, to fine Player in a reasonable amount; to suspend Player for a period certain or indefinitely; and/or to terminate this contract."

I'm no lawyer, but giving what amounts to a deposition is significantly different than a hearing, which is what happened yesterday.

Seems clear to me that the league violated it's own due process..

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I wasn't trying to justify what he did, just state it.

goheels22002 said:

My guess is that a significant amount of that 10.5 hours was Ted Wells answering questions about the report from Jeffrey Kessler, Don Yee and the bride of Frankenstein lady who was a lawyer for the NFLPA

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Wells left around 5 ish.. I can't find the exact tweet..

PatsFanSince74 said:

I wasn't trying to justify what he did, just state it.

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Who said you were trying to justify it? I clearly pointed my statements at Vincent and the league being in the wrong. Particularly in how they handled the process of this "incident".

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/breer-tom-brady-paying-spygate

of course breer has to somehow direct it towards BB whom he hates.

I d

Todd Bradley said:

Am I the only one who couldn't care less about this dog and pony show?

We knew the outcome the minute the suspension was handed down:
- Appeal
- Goodell drops it to 2/1 games
- Brady takes them to court
- Suspension nullified.

I hate to be a downer for anyone holding out hope that it ends here, but it's not going to happen.

Goodell has staked his entire reputation on deflated footballs. We've all known, since the minute Bob Kravitz went after his five-minutes of fame, that science is the explanation for any shenanigans here, but Goodell has turned this into a career case for himself, ignoring logic for the stupidity of all the jealous fanbases.

This only ends if Brady folds, not the other way around. Goodell would rather take a loss in court and say "Well, I tried" than to admit wrongdoing. After the Ray Rice fiasco, there's no way he's going before the public for a second time and saying "I got it wrong, again".

Sit back, expect Brady's suspension to drop to a game or two, and watch as Tom takes this to court. This was the road minute the Troy Vincent went ahead to get his cheap standing ovation at Park Ave.

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I doubt it will even be dropped even 1 game . The way nfl leaked info today means its saying it didnt hear anything new so I expect the 4 game suspension be upheld.