Official Brady Appeal Thread: D-Day Tuesday June 23rd

RelocatedPatFan · Jun 23, 2015

TommyBrady12 said:
schefter - brady given 4 hours to present testimony. proceedings will wrap today.

Can we say we will give him (Goodell) 4 days to rule on the appealing?

JMC00 · Jun 23, 2015

robertweathers said:
According to Troy Vincent

Speaking of the as$hole, any word on if he is at the hearing?

borg · Jun 23, 2015

ctpatsfan77 said:
Kraft didn't pick the date of the appeal, and it conflicted with the trip to Israel he's on right now. There's justification enough for anger at Kraft if you want it, but I don't think this is a great choice.

Your "son" goes into surgery....you drop everything and head to the hospital.
Krafty grabs his "neice" and heads deep into the promised land...and I'm not talking about Israel.. (nudge nudge say no more).
If you want to be a "32".....you gotta act like a "32"......Jerry style

voluntarysaftey · Jun 23, 2015

How did the NFL think its worth correcting a possible mis-statement in the media about 4 hours, but they didnt think it was worth correcting about false statements about the facts of the 'scandal'

karguy85 · Jun 23, 2015

voluntarysaftey said:
How did the NFL think its worth correcting a possible mis-statement in the media about 4 hours, but they didnt think it was worth correcting about false statements about the facts of the 'scandal'

Because one reflected poorly on the NFL, and the other did not...

FourierSeries · Jun 23, 2015

voluntarysaftey said:
How did the NFL think its worth correcting a possible mis-statement in the media about 4 hours, but they didnt think it was worth correcting about false statements about the facts of the 'scandal'

Because it's the NFL. You just answered your own question.

Ring 6 · Jun 23, 2015

PatsFanSince74 said:
But that's not how this works (it might be how it "should" work, but it's not how I understand that this proceeding works).

The League doesn't have to provide "proof of wrongdoing" by Brady. The standard, as articulated in the CBA, is "more probable than not." Wells found that it was "more probable than not" that Brady was aware of activities that were against the rules. The League doesn't have to provide "proof" beyond a reasonable doubt. If this goes to court, there will be different standards both of evidence and testimony, which will be under oath.

So, all Brady has to do is convince Goodell that he is telling the truth when he argues that he was not involved in anything that might or might not have broken the rules. He has to convince Goodell that there is another reading of the texts between Jastremski and McNally that have been twisted to implicate him. He has to convince Goodell that he did not have a long phone conversation with one or both of them (his first phone conversation with either of them in over six months) to this effect and that he did not meet with them in the QB room (a place where he had never met with equipment boys) to discuss illicit activities on their part.

I think he can do that. I think he can look Goodell in the eye and tell him that, yes, he put a lot of pressure on those guys to have game balls a certain way, but that he never told them to break the rules and was not aware of anything they had done to break the rules.

That's really where his involvement ends. Kraft has already taken the hit for anything else that might have been done. So, Goodell can come out of this saying that he punished the team for a lack of control of the equipment guys, but that he has cleared Brady.

I think the science argument is only to be front and center in Brady's case if they end up in court because in that case they would want to establish that Brady couldn't have lied about abetting a "crime" that never occurred. However, I think the NFLPA will be hitting it hard for reasons I outlined in another post in this thread.

I definitely disagree.

The science shows the balls were not altered. It is silly to ignore that and hope you are believed about the point of texts that are assumed to be about something that never happened. The only way the texts matter are if there was deflation, and if there was that CREATES the reason to doubt the texts.
He will never win on the text argument with out the science, because accepting Wells science means the balls were in fact deflated and the texts must be about that so that is why Brady is complicit.

The NFLPA will absolutely attack the science today.

voluntarysaftey · Jun 23, 2015

Ivan said:
No, he's an @sshole for refusing to help Brady by phone, I agree with the post about the preschefuled trip. He has become the worst owner in football for putting himself, his ego, and his membership in the billionaire boys club over his team, their fans, and the GOAT. I have lost all respect for him.

Agree -- Planes today have satellite phones and internet connections (for voice calls/chatting) -- it wasn't that he was unavailable, it's that he decided he didn't want to break his promise to his elite club that he would be with them.

PatsFanSince74 · Jun 23, 2015

Oswlek said:
The problem is, targeting solely Brady's awareness implies - even if inadvertently - that there was something to be aware of.

So what? The matter at hand is whether it is "more probable than not" that Brady was aware of what Jastremski or McNally might or might not have done.

All Brady has to do is convince Goodell that he never asked them to break the rules and wasn't aware of it if they did. I think he can make a very convincing argument that he put a lot of pressure on them when it came to how he like the balls on game day but never asked them to break any rules and that he felt really bad when they were getting trashed in the press, so that's why he talked to them on the phone and met with them in the equipment room...to calm them down and be a friend to them.

It is in Brady's interests to make it very clear that he is ready to trash the Wells report and expose the entire process in open court if he isn't exonerated, but I'm not so sure that that should be what he leads with. I think that's where the right strategy would be for the NFLPA to be the "heavy." But, that's why Jeffrey Kessler gets the big bucks. Hopefully, he and McPhee are on the same page when it comes to strategies.

It does affect the Patriots, who have already agreed to pay a fine for some sort of imagined lack of control of two equipment guys who will make less in their lifetimes than Brady makes in a couple of games. But Kraft didn't contest that and it's a million bucks out of his pocket.

NashuaPats · Jun 23, 2015

Here's an interesting interview with Jim Gray. He clearly thinks this is b.s. He states that it has been debunked by science. He says if Brady does not get the suspension reduced to zero games he will end up in federal court to get an injunction.

What I found most interesting is that he said he talked to Jim Dowd who is the lawyer who investigated and wrote the report that got Pete Rose banned from baseball. Dowd told him "The Wells report is significantly flawed. It is poorly done. And there is absolutely no case against Tom Brady."

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015...-gate-brady-could-take-case-to-federal-court/

PatsFanSince74 · Jun 23, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
I definitely disagree.

The science shows the balls were not altered. It is silly to ignore that and hope you are believed about the point of texts that are assumed to be about something that never happened. The only way the texts matter are if there was deflation, and if there was that CREATES the reason to doubt the texts.
He will never win on the text argument with out the science, because accepting Wells science means the balls were in fact deflated and the texts must be about that so that is why Brady is complicit.

The NFLPA will absolutely attack the science today.

We agree. I've been saying all along here today that the attack on the science should come from the NFLPA. Brady's focus should be on establishing that he didn't tell Jastremski or McNally to do anything against the rules.

Ring 6 · Jun 23, 2015

BradyFTW! said:
In other words: just because the standard is 'only' preponderance of evidence doesn't mean you can just rule whatever you want. You still have to actually have a preponderance of evidence. Which the league never had, and most definitely doesn't have now that the Wells Report's 'science' has been blown out of the water.

I think one of Wells biggest gaffes was that he added a long series of 'more likely than not' to conclude the end result was more likely than not.
29 things that were 51% likely to happen, when all are necessary for the conclusion is as far from 'more likely than not' as it gets.

RobertWeathers · Jun 23, 2015

JMC00 said:
Speaking of the as$hole, any word on if he is at the hearing?

He has to be among the 40 people in attendance but not sure.

SVN · Jun 23, 2015

NashuaPats said:
Here's an interesting interview with Jim Gray. He clearly thinks this is b.s. He states that it has been debunked by science. He says if Brady does not get the suspension reduced to zero games he will end up in federal court to get an injunction.

What I found most interesting is that he said he talked to Jim Dowd who is the lawyer who investigated and wrote the report that got Pete Rose banned from baseball. Dowd told him "The Wells report is significantly flawed. It is poorly done. And there is absolutely no case against Tom Brady."

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015...-gate-brady-could-take-case-to-federal-court/

Jim Gray is a very good friend of tom brady. Not that it changes the facts but thats what volin would say

Oswlek · Jun 23, 2015

PatsFanSince74 said:
So what?

Because it inhibits your ability to attack the evidence if Goodell doesn't reverse his earlier decision. it may just be me, but I find

"There is no reason to believe this happened, but if it did I certainly had no knowledge of it"

to be more consistent than

"I didn't know about it.... but it actually didn't even happen."

Could just be me, I'm no law expert.

Ring 6 · Jun 23, 2015

PatsFanSince74 said:
We agree. I've been saying all along here today that the attack on the science should come from the NFLPA. Brady's focus should be on establishing that he didn't tell Jastremski or McNally to do anything against the rules.

Well who said Brady was going to talk about science?????
Brady is going to say he did nothing, he is unaware that Dorito Dink and The Deflator ever had any plan, reason or want to deflate balls below 12.5, and that he does not believe the balls were deflated. Kessler will then use science to back up that there is no way Brady would know anything because there was no deflation anyway.

Brady: I didn't commit a crime
Kessler: No crime was even committed

Ivan · Jun 23, 2015

JMC00 said:
I wouldn't have even wanted him to give anything about my character. This is the guy that 6 months ago was the first one to come out and back goodell over the Ray Rice thing. Terrible character witness.

If the NFLPA asked him to give a testimonial by phone he owed it to Brady to do just that. I don't think he needed to cancel his Israel trip but asking for a phone call is a minute request and Kraft's unwillingness to do so speaks volumes about him IMO.

SVN · Jun 23, 2015

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 1h1 hour ago
Defense team of Tom Brady was given 4 hours today to present its entire case. Proceedings expected to wrap today, not continue Thursday.

SVN · Jun 23, 2015

Whatever happens today, we will still have to wait till august to see a ruling. NFL is going to try and make this as tough and unfair as possible as usual while leaking wrong facts throught that time.

JMC00 · Jun 23, 2015

SVN said:
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 1h1 hour ago
Defense team of Tom Brady was given 4 hours today to present its entire case. Proceedings expected to wrap today, not continue Thursday.

NFL spokesman has refuted this claim.

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