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Official Brady Appeal Thread: D-Day Tuesday June 23rd


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He chose not to appeal the ruling. Had he appealed the punishment, he could be in the same place that Brady is right now: able to demand exoneration on account of the report being flawed to the point of worthlessness.

But he didn't. Kraft explicitly said that he was accepting the punishment and would not appeal. There's nothing else left to read into it. He chose not to appeal, therefore the punishment stands. Even if he wanted to, it's not within Brady's power to change that.

I'm on board the Kraft hate train but you gotta remember, his road to 'appeal' is very different from Brady's. Brady, per the CBA, is afforded the appeal being heard today and if he's not satisfied can pursue a number of court avenues including suing for defamation and various suits for alleged CBA violations in federal court. Kraft, as an owner, just does not have the same rights to appeal, anything he did would be construed as action against the other 31 owners because he'd be filing suit against the NFL.

So I'm with you, Kraft caved when he didn't need to and at worst he should have kept his mouth shut and seen where Brady's appeal went. But can we please stop talking about Kraft 'not appealing', because he never had that option.
 
Disagree completely, I think Kessler is going to go hard at the science to show how flawed the Wells Report was and put the onus on the league to show proof of wrongdoing. I realize the league simply makes sh.t up as they go but getting them on record to that will aid Kessler greatly in court, and I think that's his goal and endgame. He is essentially going to argue that to claim Brady had knowledge of wrongdoing they have to at least prove there was wrongdoing to begin with, and the league has zero proof it occurred other than the deeply scientifically flawed Wells Report.
But that's not how this works (it might be how it "should" work, but it's not how I understand that this proceeding works).

The League doesn't have to provide "proof of wrongdoing" by Brady. The standard, as articulated in the CBA, is "more probable than not." Wells found that it was "more probable than not" that Brady was aware of activities that were against the rules. The League doesn't have to provide "proof" beyond a reasonable doubt. If this goes to court, there will be different standards both of evidence and testimony, which will be under oath.

So, all Brady has to do is convince Goodell that he is telling the truth when he argues that he was not involved in anything that might or might not have broken the rules. He has to convince Goodell that there is another reading of the texts between Jastremski and McNally that have been twisted to implicate him. He has to convince Goodell that he did not have a long phone conversation with one or both of them (his first phone conversation with either of them in over six months) to this effect and that he did not meet with them in the QB room (a place where he had never met with equipment boys) to discuss illicit activities on their part.

I think he can do that. I think he can look Goodell in the eye and tell him that, yes, he put a lot of pressure on those guys to have game balls a certain way, but that he never told them to break the rules and was not aware of anything they had done to break the rules.

That's really where his involvement ends. Kraft has already taken the hit for anything else that might have been done. So, Goodell can come out of this saying that he punished the team for a lack of control of the equipment guys, but that he has cleared Brady.

I think the science argument is only to be front and center in Brady's case if they end up in court because in that case they would want to establish that Brady couldn't have lied about abetting a "crime" that never occurred. However, I think the NFLPA will be hitting it hard for reasons I outlined in another post in this thread.
 
I just want this over with quickly so Brady can appeal at the Federal court level and be completely exonerated. We know it won't happen at this appeal, why are they even going through this farce of a process ?
 
Wells gets 4 months, Brady gets 4 hours.
Wells used those four months to drag his feet for billable hours. What's in that report could've been done in four hours. Shouldn't take more than a few minutes to rip that joke to shreds.
 
I'm on board the Kraft hate train but you gotta remember, his road to 'appeal' is very different from Brady's. Brady, per the CBA, is afforded the appeal being heard today and if he's not satisfied can pursue a number of court avenues including suing for defamation and various suits for alleged CBA violations in federal court. Kraft, as an owner, just does not have the same rights to appeal, anything he did would be construed as action against the other 31 owners because he'd be filing suit against the NFL.

So I'm with you, Kraft caved when he didn't need to and at worst he should have kept his mouth shut and seen where Brady's appeal went. But can we please stop talking about Kraft 'not appealing', because he never had that option.

Kraft can appeal any team punishment. Just like the Saints and Cowboys appealed theirs just in the past couple of years. Teams can appeal without filing suit against the league. Kraft just chooses not to, for the "good of the 32" or some such ********.
 
@gregaiello: @ProFootballTalk There is no strict 4-hour time limit on the TB team's presentation and it is expected to go beyond that.
 
First class? Pretty much guaranteed he's on a private jet.
Yea. Maybe its a charter as he had all those HoFers with him. Plus if he did the flight, hes doing Tel Aviv (or Jerusalem)-> Heathrow. He could have emailed someone during the layover and after he cleared UK Customs.

Simply put- he didn't want to make the effort.
 
The response will be the same no matter what happens: "We support the league and Roger Goodell", or some variation of that.
 
I think you skipped over the word "directly". Everything that anyone does technically affects everyone else. But Brady is not directly affected by the punishments against the Patriots. You can only appeal your own punishments, not someone else's.

There's really no room for reasonable debate here. That's just the fact of the matter.


Fine. Direct. A first round pick doesn't directly impact a 53 man roster that Brady plays with? Are you serious? Of course it does. If it doesn't then maybe they can forfeit the 1st round picks from here on out, because it doesn't directly impact Brady.
 
The League doesn't have to provide "proof of wrongdoing" by Brady. The standard, as articulated in the CBA, is "more probable than not." Wells found that it was "more probable than not" that Brady was aware of activities that were against the rules. The League doesn't have to provide "proof" beyond a reasonable doubt. If this goes to court, there will be different standards both of evidence and testimony, which will be under oath.

That there are different standards doesn't change the fact that if the evidence indicates the balls weren't deflated, then there is no justification that activities occurred, let alone whether Brady was aware of them.

If the evidence was stronger, I'd agree with you. As is, however, pointing out that the entire penalty is built on a flimsy house of cards is a viable strategy.
 
4 hours is more than enough time to rip this 4 month report to shreds.

It doesn't really matter anyways. We all know this appeal is just a sham. Goodell isn't going to do anything but uphold the suspension. The real fight will be in court where Brady and his team will be given plenty of time.

The time allowed for the defense could matter in an appeal, which was my point.
 
But that's not how this works (it might be how it "should" work, but it's not how I understand that this proceeding works).

The League doesn't have to provide "proof of wrongdoing" by Brady. The standard, as articulated in the CBA, is "more probable than not." Wells found that it was "more probable than not" that Brady was aware of activities that were against the rules. The League doesn't have to provide "proof" beyond a reasonable doubt. If this goes to court, there will be different standards both of evidence and testimony, which will be under oath.

So, all Brady has to do is convince Goodell that he is telling the truth when he argues that he was not involved in anything that might or might not have broken the rules. He has to convince Goodell that there is another reading of the texts between Jastremski and McNally that have been twisted to implicate him. He has to convince Goodell that he did not have a long phone conversation with one or both of them (his first phone conversation with either of them in over six months) to this effect and that he did not meet with them in the QB room (a place where he had never met with equipment boys) to discuss illicit activities on their part.

I think he can do that. I think he can look Goodell in the eye and tell him that, yes, he put a lot of pressure on those guys to have game balls a certain way, but that he never told them to break the rules and was not aware of anything they had done to break the rules.

That's really where his involvement ends. Kraft has already taken the hit for anything else that might have been done. So, Goodell can come out of this saying that he punished the team for a lack of control of the equipment guys, but that he has cleared Brady.

I think the science argument is only to be front and center in Brady's case if they end up in court because in that case they would want to establish that Brady couldn't have lied about abetting a "crime" that never occurred. However, I think the NFLPA will be hitting it hard for reasons I outlined in another post in this thread.


We disagree. I agree on the league standard but if science proves it didn't happen they have no leg to stand on. We'll find out at some point what really happened but I have already been wrong so many times that I won't count on anything. The NFL has lost all credibility to me, and it has done irreparable to my view of the game.
 
That there are different standards doesn't change the fact that if the evidence indicates the balls weren't deflated, then there is no justification that activities occurred, let alone whether Brady was aware of them.

If the evidence was stronger, I'd agree with you. As is, however, pointing out that the entire penalty is built on a flimsy house of cards is a viable strategy.
We're just arguing tactics. I think we agree on the basics.
I think the going-in tactic is to address the question on the table: was Brady aware....etc...
The next level for Brady's defense is to try to undermine the premise, but if he can achieve his objective without going there, then he has no reason to do so.
 
Greg A. NFL spokesperson...whatever the hell he is...says there is no strict timetable on this.
 
We disagree. I agree on the league standard but if science proves it didn't happen they have no leg to stand on. We'll find out at some point what really happened but I have already been wrong so many times that I won't count on anything. The NFL has lost all credibility to me, and it has done irreparable to my view of the game.
We don't disagree on what we both believe the science says.
We're disagreeing on tactics in the room today. I'm arguing that Brady will address the question on the table first and then go to the science second.
In the end, if he has to do so, Brady will try to show that he could not have been aware of a "crime" that never occurred. On that, I think, we agree.
 

Perfect example post of how getting wound up about all this **** based on partial information being haphazardly plastered all over twitter is a great way to hasten a ****ing aneurysm.
 
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