Ravens Still Spooked

aluminum seats said:

My favorite part is "we won't assume the refs will understand."

Uh, John, the refs DID understand...you and your team didn't.

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"34 is ineligible. DO NOT COVER 34!" priceless

upstater1 said:

I think the new rules are going to create even more mayhem that Belichick can exploit. So what that the ineligible receiver has to be in the backfield--they can still lateral it. So you can run it with the ineligible guy or still throw it to the eligible lineman coming off the line.

Good luck not covering the ineligible Travaris Cadet.

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XLIX said:

I have to say I have always found wrinkles on pre-snap formations to be fascinating. You see a lot more of this sort of thing at the college level - especially on extra points - and I love it. Here are things very few people outside this forum seem to realize:

- You have to have 7 men on the line of scrimmage, but they can be spread out as far and wide as you want
- The new rule states that any player with an eligible number lining up ineligible must be in the tackle box. The Patriots can still run the exact same play if they put an ineligible player in the Vereen position
- The man who snaps the ball does not have to be in the middle of the 7 men on the line of scrimmage. He has to be one of the 5 ineligible guys, but can be any one of those 5
- The ball does not have to be snapped through the center's legs. They can do the ole "Swinging Gate". I would love to see Belichick figure out a wrinkle here

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Did anyone catch Bill's being ominous about how common punt formations would be made illegal now? I can see him uncorking that sometime, but maybe I imagined that.

Deus Irae said:

Harbaugh's 3-5 against the Patriots, and the games have generally been close (i.e. OT loss, dropped TD pass at end). Saying he's been overmatched is not reflective of what's actually happened.

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1 of those wins was against a team with an extremely weak defense. If I recall the guys that Edelman and Slater replaced came back and were not much better. Pre-Talib, I think. (The 5 includes the Edelman at corner and Slater at safety. ) I won't mention that Gostkowski made that kick.

Jezzus Croost, this thread reminds me, how many rule changes are directly attributable to a NE beatdown to appease losing chump coaches and GMs who couldn't ever think of blaming themselves for any loss. Instead, just whine and ***** when things don't go your way and get a rule change. Or an investigation. Or a forfeiture of draft picks. What's next?

Koma said:

Because his players think the same way he does. It can't be that they were outcoached or outplayed, someone must have cheated them.

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That in a nutshell is why Deflategate.

Willie said if you don't understand the O's formation, you call a base formation, or a timeout....simple.

What you don't do is flail around like a Chinese fire drill, or lose your **** on the sideline.
(My wife is Chinese...I can say that)

pdangle said:

Jezzus Croost, this thread reminds me, how many rule changes are directly attributable to a NE beatdown to appease losing chump coaches and GMs who couldn't ever think of blaming themselves for any loss. Instead, just whine and ***** when things don't go your way and get a rule change. Or an investigation. Or a forfeiture of draft picks. What's next?

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Eliminate round six of the draft. Skip from 5 to 7. That'll eliminate the risk of another Tom Brady.

Like it or not, the ravens are the second best team in the AFC. They are going to be better than the colts, who are nothing more than a fancy offense and no defense (historically, they have always been like that). The Ravens really took it to us last year and I gained a lot of respect for them.

jbb9s said:

The colts - especially their coaching staff - should be embarrassed because they missed conceptually the same play on the Solder touchdown a week later.

Its kind of like the wildcat - tricky the first time it was ever unveiled (against the Patriots in fact) but as far as I know not run by any team in a playoff victory ever.

The point is - the rules can be changed but it will never work again - rule or no rule. That is why Harbaugh complaining is so hilarious. Because not even a decent D1 linebacker will ever make that mistake again let along a pro. About 1% chance Belichick or McDaniels ever call the play again because the know this. Chess v checkers.

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Yes they did miss the same style of play, but that TD should have been called back. Flemming I believe was on the field illegally and managed to hide in the middle of the formation from the refs, because he was eligible the prior play and required to sit out a play.

So we either outsmarted ourselves and the refs, knowing how much thought was put into those formations assumed we were right, or we just did a good job hiding Flemming by putting him in a new spot.

If the Patriots play the Ravens in the playoffs they should come out the first play with all 11 players scattered in some ridiculous formation and then move everybody into the correct formation, set for one second and then quick snap the ball. That will put them off kilter for the entire game.

This belongs in stupid football questions, but could the patriots put in 4 linemen plus Chandler and Gronk as either the fifth lineman, or the tight end, having either one line up anywhere in the line and either one be eligible?

Probably a confused question, but with 6 lineman sized [height] players whose to say which are eligible receivers and which aren't?

I know there are rules, I just don't know what they are.

Sometimes the pats get too much credit.its not like they were using witchcraft.

This points out exactly how he should have reacted after the game: "I was unprepared as a coach, and this left my players unprepared. In the off-season, I will be sure to study up on, and coach the hell out of this aspect of the game so it does not happen again. Hats off to the better team."

Instead he complained like a little *****.

neuronet said:

This points out exactly how he should have reacted after the game: "I was unprepared as a coach, and this left my players unprepared. In the off-season, I will be sure to study up on, and coach the hell out of this aspect of the game so it does not happen again. Hats off to the better team."

Instead he complained like a little *****.

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Oh boy, If I were a confused BAL fan, how pissed would I have been (and still be) at the Pats after that loss. Legal or not (in my mind). Haha, thinking of it right now, just gave me a nice warm little chuckle.

pdangle you know that sig is incorrect right? It should say "World Champions 2014"

Wheelman said:

pdangle you know that sig is incorrect right? It should say "World Champions 2014"

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I guess I'll I've have to re-paint it.

Or wait till this year.

pdangle said:

I guess I'll I've have to re-paint it.

Or wait till this year.

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You'll still have to repaint because it says Arizona on it. But I'm with ya 2015 World Champions here we come!

RayClay said:

This belongs in stupid football questions, but could the patriots put in 4 linemen plus Chandler and Gronk as either the fifth lineman, or the tight end, having either one line up anywhere in the line and either one be eligible?

Probably a confused question, but with 6 lineman sized [height] players whose to say which are eligible receivers and which aren't?

I know there are rules, I just don't know what they are.

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You have to have 7 men on the line of scrimmage. The 2 on the outside are eligible receivers, the 5 in the middle are not.

On the controversial plays in question, Shane Vereen declared himself ineligible and was one of the innermost-5 offensive linemen - even though he was lined up slot right. There was an eligible receiver (Edelman?) on the line to Vereen's right, so Vereen was "covered". It would have been illegal for Vereen to run downfield prior to a forward pass (and if you watch the highlights, you can see all he does is take a couple steps backwards and make like he was expecting the pass). Hoomanawanui was the left-most guy on the line of scrimmage and therefore was eligible.

The Ravens messed up because they thought Hoomanawanui was a down lineman so they didn't cover him. While he was lined up in a place you usually see the left tackle, they have only themselves to blame for not recognizing he was a guy with an eligible number lining up in an eligible position.

Using your question, either Chandler or Gronk (since both guys have numbers in the 80's) would have to declare themselves ineligible and be "covered" by an eligible receiver to the outside. Under the new rule, the player in the 80's who declared himself ineligible must also be lined up in the tackle box.

Wonder if other whiny coaches complained the first time a team had the quarterback in the shotgun formation?

Danger Zone said:

Wonder if other whiny coaches complained the first time a team had the quarterback in the shotgun formation?

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It's funny you mention this because, as others have pointed out, the Dolphins created an innovative new formation called "The Wildcat" and used it against the Patriots with quite a bit of success. Let's face it: We just weren't prepared.

So what was the response by our coaching staff? A temper tantrum? Whining for a rules change? No. They took their lumps and adjusted accordingly and it simply doesn't take anyone by surprise anymore.

everlong said:

If the Patriots play the Ravens in the playoffs they should come out the first play with all 11 players scattered in some ridiculous formation and then move everybody into the correct formation, set for one second and then quick snap the ball. That will put them off kilter for the entire game.

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This. Isn't a bad idea. This will cause a TO with Harbaugh fiddlin through rule book arguing with refs thats its illegal and we might even get an U'Conduct 15 yds out of it.

pdangle said:

Jezzus Croost, this thread reminds me, how many rule changes are directly attributable to a NE beatdown to appease losing chump coaches and GMs who couldn't ever think of blaming themselves for any loss. Instead, just whine and ***** when things don't go your way and get a rule change. Or an investigation. Or a forfeiture of draft picks. What's next?

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I was going to add thefts by officials but we already have those.