Stats to back that TB is the greatest QB

NYCPatsFan · Jun 19, 2015

Not that most of us here think otherwise but still, nice to see the various breakdowns and their leaders that solidly places TB as the best.

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/is...st-quarterback-in-nfl-history.html/?a=viewall

Here's hoping TB wins two or three more SBs - with league inspected balls

- just to say FU to the NFL.

Ice_Ice_Brady · Jun 19, 2015

No offense, because I like the idea here, but this is like a second grade analysis. These are all just cumulative stats. Example, Tom Brady's wins are third all-time, but his winning percentage is off-the-charts multiple standard deviations ahead of anyone else. Cumulative stats are part of the picture but not a huge part of it. Percentages, ratios, those things are very important. It also fails to show how far ahead Tom is in playoff wins. Tom has 21; Montana is second at 16. That's a gigantic edge and could get even further apart.

There have been other very interesting stats that show Brady is far and away the best QB when his defense allows 21+ points, that he has something like 9 playoff comebacks in 11 tries, he is the only QB who has won in the playoffs when needing to throw 50+ times, he has the by far the best winning pct of any QB when sacked 5+ times in a game. These are all things that show is the greatest not just because he's played a long time but because he is just really, really, really good.

Tony2046 · Jun 19, 2015

I have watched football since the mid 70's. Up until a three or four years ago I would entertain and somewhat understand a discussion of whether Brady, Montana or Manning was the GOAT. Actually, to be honest, the only reason Manning was in the discussion was because of his stats other than that he has choked or not lead his team to 9 one and dones and two super bowl losses one of which being a total blowout. I will give Manning the GOAT of the regular season trophy but there are probably ten other quarterbacks I would rather have in the Playoffs/Super Bowl other than Manning. You can still have an understandable discussion of whether it's Brady or Montana but today Manning is clearly out of the club.

Other stats that are missing from the article are things like "how many hall of famers has Brady played with?" or "How many Pro Bowlers were on any given team" etc.... in other words how stacked were Brady's teams?

Thanks for sharing the article.

NYCPatsFan · Jun 19, 2015

Ice_Ice_Brady said:
No offense, because I like the idea here, but this is like a second grade analysis. These are all just cumulative stats. Example, Tom Brady's wins are third all-time, but his winning percentage is off-the-charts multiple standard deviations ahead of anyone else. Cumulative stats are part of the picture but not a huge part of it. Percentages, ratios, those things are very important. It also fails to show how far ahead Tom is in playoff wins. Tom has 21; Montana is second at 16. That's a gigantic edge and could get even further apart.

There have been other very interesting stats that show Brady is far and away the best QB when his defense allows 21+ points, that he has something like 9 playoff comebacks in 11 tries, he is the only QB who has won in the playoffs when needing to throw 50+ times, he has the by far the best winning pct of any QB when sacked 5+ times in a game. These are all things that show is the greatest not just because he's played a long time but because he is just really, really, really good.

None taken, as you make some splendid points and more importantly, this not MY compliation.

Just sharing what I came across today in the NFL world today that is so anti-Pats and anti-Brady.

Request on those excellent nuggets you mentioned in the second para: can you consider preparing a list of such unique stats for the benefit of us fans?

And if you are up for it, maybe write an article referring to those stats and see if Ian or others can get it published thru Tom Curran or other Pats friendly sites?

Thanks!

Deus Irae · Jun 19, 2015

NYCPatsFan said:
None taken, as you make some splendid points and more importantly, this not MY compliation.

Just sharing what I came across today in the NFL world today that is so anti-Pats and anti-Brady.

Request on those excellent nuggets you mentioned in the second para: can you consider preparing a list of such unique stats for the benefit of us fans?

And if you are up for it, maybe write an article referring to those stats and see if Ian or others can get it published thru Tom Curran or other Pats friendly sites?

Thanks!

Those stats are all over the site (though they are often couched in the Brady/Manning discussions). Unfortunately, with the search not working as it should, it's a pain trying to find them.

scott99 · Jun 19, 2015

Tony2046 said:
I have watched football since the mid 70's. Up until a three or four years ago I would entertain and somewhat understand a discussion of whether Brady, Montana or Manning was the GOAT. Actually, to be honest, the only reason Manning was in the discussion was because of his stats other than that he has choked or not lead his team to 9 one and dones and two super bowl losses one of which being a total blowout. I will give Manning the GOAT of the regular season trophy but there are probably ten other quarterbacks I would rather have in the Playoffs/Super Bowl other than Manning. You can still have an understandable discussion of whether it's Brady or Montana but today Manning is clearly out of the club.

Other stats that are missing from the article are things like "how many hall of famers has Brady played with?" or "How many Pro Bowlers were on any given team" etc.... in other words how stacked were Brady's teams?

Thanks for sharing the article.

I've said this a billion times, Manning is the greatest REGULAR season QB ever, but get him in the playoffs, and he's not even top 10.

Brady has been more successful in the playoffs. with various levels of talent around him, with probably only Randy Moss (for only 2 1/2 seasons) and Gronk as hall of fame caliber players. Manning has always had great talent around him.

Also, Brady has led his team to 3 game winning drives in 4 Super Bowl wins, maybe the greatest being the most recent. The two losses, he gave the team a chance to win and the defenses gave up game winning drives. What may give him an edge over Montana, is Montana definitely had better talent around him, and also Montana played in SB blowouts, ALL 6 SBs Brady played in were won by 4 or less points. So a lot more pressure. And like I said, could've won all 6 if not for the D choking in 2.

eom · Jun 19, 2015

comparing montana to brady is an absolute joke which only persists due to joe playing in 'the good ole days' and his namebrand status.

Ice_Ice_Brady · Jun 19, 2015

scott99 said:
I've said this a billion times, Manning is the greatest REGULAR season QB ever, but get him in the playoffs, and he's not even top 10.

Have no idea how Manning is a better regular season QB than Brady, since Brady has a better TD:INT ratio, throws for as many TDs (pct.) throws for less INTs (pct.) and has without question a weaker group of skill players year in and year out. Manning typically has TWO outside receivers in the pro bowl each year, yet Brady is better by most metrics. Also, Brady's regular season winning pct. is way above Manning's.

Deus Irae · Jun 19, 2015

eom said:
comparing montana to brady is an absolute joke which only persists due to joe playing in 'the good ole days' and his namebrand status.

That's unfair to Joe. One can make a legitimate argument for Joe. That's much different than Peyton.

scott99 · Jun 19, 2015

Montana is 4-0 in Suberbowls, he had 11 touchdown passes and ZERO, Repeat ZERO Ints. Through 4 Super Bowls, ZERO ints. That's hard to do, so many things can happen, balls tipped by linemen, balls tipped by his own receivers into DBs hands, and just plain bad throws or good defensive plays (like Malcolm Butler's), and yet, ZERO Ints in 4 SBs. His performance against Denver in 1989 was the most perfect and most dominant SB game I've ever seen a QB play.

I've always said Montana was the best QB I've ever seen, Brady has certainly closed the gap in the playoffs/SB, and surpassed Montana in the regular season stats by a landslide. But even as Brady has said after he broke one of Montana's records, it's a different game now than back in Montana's day, way more passing now.

RobertWeathers · Jun 19, 2015

scott99 said:
I've said this a billion times, Manning is the greatest REGULAR season QB ever, but get him in the playoffs, and he's not even top 10.

Brady has been more successful in the playoffs. with various levels of talent around him, with probably only Randy Moss (for only 2 1/2 seasons) and Gronk as hall of fame caliber players. Manning has always had great talent around him.

Also, Brady has led his team to 3 game winning drives in 4 Super Bowl wins, maybe the greatest being the most recent. The two losses, he gave the team a chance to win and the defenses gave up game winning drives. What may give him an edge over Montana, is Montana definitely had better talent around him, and also Montana played in SB blowouts, ALL 6 SBs Brady played in were won by 4 or less points. So a lot more pressure. And like I said, could've won all 6 if not for the D choking in 2.

You may want to revise your opinion after you read this. Brady is better in the reg season as well.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.co...w-tom-brady-better-than-peyton-manning/31873/

scott99 · Jun 19, 2015

Ice_Ice_Brady said:
Have no idea how Manning is a better regular season QB than Brady, since Brady has a better TD:INT ratio, throws for as many TDs (pct.) throws for less INTs (pct.) and has without question a weaker group of skill players year in and year out. Manning typically has TWO outside receivers in the pro bowl each year, yet Brady is better by most metrics. Also, Brady's regular season winning pct. is way above Manning's.

Definitely could argue Brady is a better regular season QB too, was just giving Manning his props for regular season play, which, by the end of this season, he should own every passing record. But honestly who cares, Brady is money in the playoffs/SB, and Manning is **** in the most important stat categories in the playoffs/SB.

Ice_Ice_Brady · Jun 19, 2015

scott99 said:
Through 4 Super Bowls, ZERO ints. That's hard to do, so many things can happen, balls tipped by linemen, balls tipped by his own receivers into DBs hands, and just plain bad throws or good defensive plays (like Malcolm Butler's), and yet, ZERO Ints in 4 SBs.

Yes, it is hard to do, partially because much of it has to do with the following:

1. Luck
2. Small sample size
3. Overrated competition

In the SB where he Montana brought the Niners back against the Bengals, a defensive back dropped an easy, wide open INT just before Montana's strike to Taylor. However, Brady is not immortally 19-0 because of the Tyree catch and dropped INT by Asante Samuel. Do those end results really tell us much about Montana or Brady?

In other words, it's better to look at a larger sample than several games, even if those games were the championship. In Montana's case, he often faced his best competition prior to those games. Brady has put his team in front in the fourth quarter of the SB six times; Montana four times. If Montana is that incredible, then why only four?

From 1982-1996, the NFC went 16-0 against the AFC. Going 4-0 doesn't seem quite as incredible in that context, considering the best opponents were already gone by the time the championship rolled around.

eom · Jun 19, 2015

scott99 said:
Montana is 4-0 in Suberbowls, he had 11 touchdown passes and ZERO, Repeat ZERO Ints. Through 4 Super Bowls, ZERO ints. That's hard to do, so many things can happen, balls tipped by linemen, balls tipped by his own receivers into DBs hands, and just plain bad throws or good defensive plays (like Malcolm Butler's), and yet, ZERO Ints in 4 SBs. His performance against Denver in 1989 was the most perfect and most dominant SB game I've ever seen a QB play.

I've always said Montana was the best QB I've ever seen, Brady has certainly closed the gap in the playoffs/SB, and surpassed Montana in the regular season stats by a landslide. But even as Brady has said after he broke one of Montana's records, it's a different game now than back in Montana's day, way more passing now.

that's exactly what it boils down to for all the montana backers ---- 4 games, and the fact that your parents look like giants when you're growing up.

all you guys at the old man bar can remember are these 4 magical games where joe rode in on a unicorn and people wore onions on their belts.

RobertWeathers · Jun 19, 2015

scott99 said:
Montana is 4-0 in Suberbowls, he had 11 touchdown passes and ZERO, Repeat ZERO Ints. Through 4 Super Bowls, ZERO ints. That's hard to do, so many things can happen, balls tipped by linemen, balls tipped by his own receivers into DBs hands, and just plain bad throws or good defensive plays (like Malcolm Butler's), and yet, ZERO Ints in 4 SBs. His performance against Denver in 1989 was the most perfect and most dominant SB game I've ever seen a QB play.

I've always said Montana was the best QB I've ever seen, Brady has certainly closed the gap in the playoffs/SB, and surpassed Montana in the regular season stats by a landslide. But even as Brady has said after he broke one of Montana's records, it's a different game now than back in Montana's day, way more passing now.

TB and Cool Joe are the only two QBs that if you said one was better than the other, you would not be wrong.

eom · Jun 19, 2015

Here are the 10 best PPG allowed in the post season for all SB winners . . .

1985 CHI 3.3
2000 BAL 5.8
1971 DAL 6
1969 KCC 6.7
1977 DAL 7.7
1986 NYG 7.7
1984 SFO 8.7
1989 SFO 8.7
1988 SFO 9.3
1970 BAL 10

but it was joe montana that won 4 sb

I'll take a look at those 4 magic sb years -- he was 4-7 in the playoffs in his other 10 yrs.

1981 - pretty strong, beat giants + cowboys while throwing 5 td to 4 picks en route to sb vs bengals in which montana was 14/22 for 157/1

1984 - beat giants + bears this year while throwing 4 td to 5 picks with a defense allowing 3 + 0 points, en route to sb vs miami in which his defense allowed 16

1988 - beat minny + bears this year with his defense allowing 9 + 3 points en route to sb vs bengals again in which his defense allowed 9

1989 - beat minny + rams with his defense allowing 13 + 3 en route to sb vs broncos where his defense allowed 10

but joe montana 4-0 INSUPERBOWLZOMG!!

eom · Jun 19, 2015

1990 payrolls (niners' division bolded)

49ers $26,815,500

Jets $22,458,350
Raiders $21,507,000
Redskins $21,463,000
Browns $20,845,750
Giants $20,523,000
Bills $20,459,500
Vikings $20,285,000
Packers $19,885,500
Bears $19,965,000
Eagles $19,862,026
Patriots $19,459,500
Colts $19,210,250
Oilers $19,125,000
Dolphins $19,032,500
Seahawks $17,706,500
Broncos $17,607,900
Bengals $17,530,000
Lions $16,738,250
Rams $16,659,500
Chiefs $16,400,733
Buccaneers $16,360,417
Falcons $16,282,000
Cowboys $15,818,275
Cardinals $15,407,000
Chargers $14,981,000
Saints $14,091,417
Steelers $13,124,300

I wonder what the pats could've done with an extra 50-70m over the last 10 years..

eom · Jun 19, 2015

robertweathers said:
TB and Cool Joe are the only two QBs that if you said one was better than the other, you would not be wrong.

I should probably take back my disagree --- one is definitely better than the other.
that's not wrong.

Ice_Ice_Brady · Jun 19, 2015

eom said:
1990 payrolls (niners' division bolded)

49ers $26,815,500

Jets $22,458,350
Raiders $21,507,000
Redskins $21,463,000
Browns $20,845,750
Giants $20,523,000
Bills $20,459,500
Vikings $20,285,000
Packers $19,885,500
Bears $19,965,000
Eagles $19,862,026
Patriots $19,459,500
Colts $19,210,250
Oilers $19,125,000
Dolphins $19,032,500
Seahawks $17,706,500
Broncos $17,607,900
Bengals $17,530,000
Lions $16,738,250
Rams $16,659,500
Chiefs $16,400,733
Buccaneers $16,360,417
Falcons $16,282,000
Cowboys $15,818,275
Cardinals $15,407,000
Chargers $14,981,000
Saints $14,091,417
Steelers $13,124,300

I wonder what the pats could've done with an extra 50-70m over the last 10 years..

Those silly, hapless Jets.

eom · Jun 19, 2015

Twenty-one years ago this week, Bill Walsh stood before the skeptical Bay Area media and defended a controversial decision. He told them that the 49ers' troubled rookie wide receiver would remain a starter despite several bad performances.

The rookie's name was Jerry Rice.

The 49ers, fresh off a victory in Super Bowl XIX, were 6-5 and fighting for their playoff lives. Joe Montana's passing numbers were off. Rice, the team's top draft pick, had 26 receptions in 11 games, but he also dropped 10 balls, some of them at the worst possible times. He was coming off a game in which he dropped two passes, fumbled once, and caught just one pass. Niners fans booed the rookie; local columnists made him the butt of jokes

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/walkthrough/2006/too-deep-zone-jerry-rice-rookie-bust

wow, something really got that guy turned around............

Stats to back that TB is the greatest QB

In the Starting Line-Up

I heard 10,000 whispering and nobody listening

PatsFans.com Supporter

In the Starting Line-Up

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

In the Starting Line-Up

I heard 10,000 whispering and nobody listening

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Member of the Seattle 7 & Roadie for Metallica

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

I heard 10,000 whispering and nobody listening

In the Starting Line-Up

Member of the Seattle 7 & Roadie for Metallica

In the Starting Line-Up

In the Starting Line-Up

In the Starting Line-Up

I heard 10,000 whispering and nobody listening

In the Starting Line-Up

Similar threads