Reports: Brady wants entire suspension removed, and is seeking to be fully exonerated

AndyJohnson said:

Brady and the NFLPA can also request whatever they want, but it must be a legitimate request.
For example, calling Kensil to testify is of course allowed, but to have the court force him to turn over his phone would require a valid reason, which probably doesn't exist.
There is nothing that would compel the court to force Brady to turn over his phone just because Wells wanted to see it.

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Well we know that Blandino, Kensil, and other NFL officials knew of the accusation level by Grigson about the Patriot footballs being tampered with, we also know that a league official, Blandion lied about advanced knowledge of the accusation. We also have reason to suspect that NFL officials leaked false information about the psi of the Patriot footballs (to Mortenson).

There are reasons to suspect their was a sting to damage Brady's reputation, and after the sting deliberate leaks of information to damage his reputation and shape public opinion. The people involved also shaped the investigation of Ted Wells the resulted in the punishment and impugning of Brady's reputation. The purpose of discovery woul be to see if there was a conspiracy to damage Brady unfairly.

Sue the NFL.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

Injured players (out on IR) get their full pay unless they negotiate an injury settlement & release

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Just a quibble... contracts often have IR wages that are lower than healthy compensation.

Deus Irae said:

The prosecution did a ****ty job. One of the 'star' witnesses was painted as a racist cop. The implication of planted evidence was able to be made, undercutting the DNA evidence.

Plus, that was a jury trial with a jury looking to get a 'win' for the black man.

Basically, it's completely inapplicable to a Brady appeal.

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Absolutely correct. Beyond that, the average person didn't understand DNA the way they do now. It would take no time at all to convict OJ in today's world of CSI, Bones and whatnot.

Oswlek said:

Absolutely correct. Beyond that, the average person didn't understand DNA the way they do now. It would take no time at all to convict OJ in today's world of CSI, Bones and whatnot.

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OJ would still get off in the same situation 100%. The Jury was never going to convict. The jury here, Wells and Vincent already convicted the Patriots before this started and seemed intent on getting the golden boy Brady. Goodell is judge Ito, a joke who does not know he is a joke.

AndyJohnson said:

Brady and the NFLPA can also request whatever they want, but it must be a legitimate request.
For example, calling Kensil to testify is of course allowed, but to have the court force him to turn over his phone would require a valid reason, which probably doesn't exist.
There is nothing that would compel the court to force Brady to turn over his phone just because Wells wanted to see it.

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Judges seem to have a lot of discretion as to what does or does not constitute a valid premise during Discovery, but I'll leave that stuff to people who know more about it than I do.

Oswlek said:

Absolutely correct. Beyond that, the average person didn't understand DNA the way they do now. It would take no time at all to convict OJ in today's world of CSI, Bones and whatnot.

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Nah. We're going way OT here, but that jury wasn't going to convict OJ of anything, whether it was impaneled 20 years ago or 20 minutes ago. There was a critical mass of jurors who talked their way onto that Panel for the sole purpose of nullifying the application of the Law in the case. Happens every day in every major city in the US. The Prosecution lost the case the moment jury selection was completed.

patsfan13 said:

Well we know that Blandino, Kensil, and other NFL officials knew of the accusation level by Grigson about the Patriot footballs being tampered with, we also know that a league official, Blandion lied about advanced knowledge of the accusation. We also have reason to suspect that NFL officials leaked false information about the psi of the Patriot footballs (to Mortenson).

There are reasons to suspect their was a sting to damage Brady's reputation, and after the sting deliberate leaks of information to damage his reputation and shape public opinion. The people involved also shaped the investigation of Ted Wells the resulted in the punishment and impugning of Brady's reputation. The purpose of discovery woul be to see if there was a conspiracy to damage Brady unfairly.

Sue the NFL.

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There is nothing illegal about an accusation and then a sting operation. They could admit they tried to set up the Patriots and would be guilty of nothing.
The rest you are just fantasizing. Wells doing a poor job is not proof of a conspiracy. Punishment based upon an investigation is not slander.

PatsFanSince74 said:

Judges seem to have a lot of discretion as to what does or does not constitute a valid premise during Discovery, but I'll leave that stuff to people who know more about it than I do.

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Of course they have discretion but that doesn't mean you can compell someone to hand over their property without a reasonable justification and there really seems to be none here. Now if you had contradictory testimony that may help but not "I think he sent texts that we don't know about". You would need someone to testify that they have knowledge of exculpatory information on the phone.

AndyJohnson said:

Of course they have discretion but that doesn't mean you can compell someone to hand over their property without a reasonable justification and there really seems to be none here. Now if you had contradictory testimony that may help but not "I think he sent texts that we don't know about". You would need someone to testify that they have knowledge of exculpatory information on the phone.

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As I said before, I bow to those who know more about this than I do.

What I do know is that judges can differ (and lawyers will spend countless hours arguing) as to whether or not there "seems to be" "reasonable justification" for surrendering almost anything during Discovery. I also know that cases are frequently won or lost during those arguments.

How "reasonable justification" would be determined in this case when it comes to the relevance of specific phone records and texts of Brady, Kensil or others is beyond my expertise and, more importantly, is purely hypothetical at this point since neither of us can know how one side or the other would try to establish relevance.

AndyJohnson said:

There is nothing illegal about an accusation and then a sting operation. They could admit they tried to set up the Patriots and would be guilty of nothing.

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Blandino lied about his knowledge of the Grigson complaint the week after the game. Wells documented that indeed Blandino knew the Patriots were being targeted.

Kensil did say thar the Patriots were in 'big f'n trouble' because their balls we under weight D), someone released false information slandering the Patriots, by placing the PSI of the balls outside the range specified by the ideal gas law, the NFL allowed this lie to sit their un corrected.

Not sure a civil court would look favorably on this at all. YMMV, you agree with C Russo perhaps?

The rest you are just fantasizing. Wells doing a poor job is not proof of a conspiracy. Punishment based upon an investigation is not slander.

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Well is an outlier contradicted, by AEI, Headsmart and a Noble prize winning Chemist. It is not a reach that people who were executives with the Jets when BB left would have an ax to grind. If you choose to be that naive be my guest.

another great article ....

The tide has turned, Goodell is in a tough spot.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...fcbaa6-1456-11e5-89f3-61410da94eb1_story.html

Tom Brady is said to be seeking total exoneration, and it appears he’s entitled to it. The idea that Brady and the New England Patriots intentionally deflated footballs for a competitive advantage has been discredited by everyone from sidewalk chemists to Web physicists to unlicensed ceramicists, not to mention your own common sense. But most importantly, it is utterly shredded in a new scientific analysis by the American Enterprise Institute, which shows the only inflation problem is in NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell’s head.

patsfan13 said:

Blandino lied about his knowledge of the Grigson complaint the week after the game. Wells documented that indeed Blandino knew the Patriots were being targeted.

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Not really true since Wells says there was no sting. Can't have it both ways.
Blandino knew the Colts said something, everyone is denying it was taken seriously.
Right or wrong there is no proof, and certainly no crime.

Kensil did say thar the Patriots were in 'big f'n trouble' because their balls we under weight D), someone released false information slandering the Patriots, by placing the PSI of the balls outside the range specified by the ideal gas law, the NFL allowed this lie to sit their un corrected.

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Kensil saying a team he thought cheated was in big trouble is evidence of nothing.
The fact that the NFL released incorrect information and refused to correct it is certainly an issue for them.

Not sure a civil court would look favorably on this at all. YMMV, you agree with C Russo perhaps?

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No clue what you mean there. I'm saying that if the league had plotted and set the Patriots up in a sting operation they would be allowed to do so if they chose to and there is no recourse for it.
You seem to be arguing that if there was a sting operation the Patriots could get some type of judgment in court, and I'm saying there is nothing illegal or in violation of anything if they did.

Well is an outlier contradicted, by AEI, Headsmart and a Noble prize winning Chemist. It is not a reach that people who were executives with the Jets when BB left would have an ax to grind. If you choose to be that naive be my guest.

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Ah, the infamous paranoid conspiracy theory.
Naive is claiming something because they was Jetzz so they hatezz us.
Looking at the facts and seeing if there is any case is actually the opposite.
The fact the Wells did a bad job is not evidence of a conspiracy or a cause for a defamation suit.

Andy you sound like Felger, but we can agree to disagree.

RayClay said:

Yup, he thought he had influence because he saved the aholes bacon in the nflpa negotiations. He made a fool of himself.

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Sad but true. I can't understand how such as savvy businessman can be such a poor judge of character

RayClay said:

It depends. Smart politicians wouldn't turn someone like Kraft from a friend to an enemy. Of course, no one has ever accused Goodell of being smart.

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Nor in my opinion does Kraft consider him an enemy which is even more absurd.

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

What exactly did he have to lose by appealing? I think that there a real possibility Brady's suspension could be lifted because it may be in Goodell's own best interest to avoid court. It would at least look awkward if Goodell vacated Brady's suspension but upheld the Patriots penalties. Goodell now appears to be in a position where he can exonerate Brady, screw the Patriots (because they accepted the penalty), and avoid court.

Kraft's surrender makes absolutely no sense unless there were side deals we don't know about.

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There doesn't 't need to be side deals. All Kraft needed to hear it is for the good of the Shield and he caved . That he would leave the deathbed of his wife to make a deal for the League shows what his priorities are.

I don't really care about the suspension. The loss of the first round pick is way, way, way worse and way, way ,way over the top as far as punishment.

Imagine how much help Kraft could offer Brady in terms of the information he undoubtedly knows about the inner workings of the league and how corrupt it is. Even if he had to do it in an indirect way because of league agreements. You know, if he actually gave a s.hit. But he hasn't even verbally supported Brady one bit aside from his BS comment about how he hopes that the players who deserve to play are able to play.

raduray said:

You're right. That was my (probably incorrect) assumption.

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Thank you for taking the time to clarify your thoughts. While we don't really know what will happen in the future, it's great to be able to bounce ideas around in a respectful manner. It will certainly be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

Memba that time Seattle decided to throw the ball ? Next thing you know, this UFA from some tiny college in the South jumps up and grabs the ball. Game over.