Tim Wright released

1960Pats said:

I don't think we can compare the Giants losses to the Seattle win. If the Pats used the same quick strike passing game against the Giants that they used against the Seahawks, maybe they might have won.

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Comparing the offensive outputs in the super bowls is no less valid than determining the victor of the trade based on whether NE won or lost their last game.

Oswlek said:

Comparing the offensive outputs in the super bowls is no less valid than determining the victor of the trade based on whether NE won or lost their last game.

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It isn't the output to me as much as the offensive scheme that makes the games different and hard to compare. One of the years that the Pats lost in the SB (2011 I think) the Giants had a horrendous run defense that we never went after. The Pats got down by 2 points and acted like they were down 2 TDs

There's also the possibility that if short passing game didn't work out as well as it did this time vs the Seahawks, then the Pats may have been forced to run more. If that was the case then they might have been better off with Mankins there.

We'll never really be able to say for sure how things might have been with Mankins.

1960Pats said:

It isn't the output to me as much as the offensive scheme that makes the games different and hard to compare. One of the years that the Pats lost in the SB (2011 I think) the Giants had a horrendous run defense that we never went after. The Pats got down by 2 points and acted like they were down 2 TDs

There's also the possibility that if short passing game didn't work out as well as it did this time vs the Seahawks, then the Pats may have been forced to run more. If that was the case then they might have been better off with Mankins there.

We'll never really be able to say for sure how things might have been with Mankins.

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I believe strongly that Mankins was entirely a combination of salary cap and that Mankins was no longer a top 5 OG deserving of that kind of salary. That's not to say he was a bad player, just not a guy worthy of an 11MM dollar cap hit. It was a great trade even though it dropped the OL talent level down a bit. We got a decent year from Wright, a pick, and cap space. All things that made that trade well worth it. Between Wright and what we did with the cap space, it all helped win a championship. I don't think anyone with a functioning mind can question this trade after the fact.

We're on to Fred Davis

1960Pats said:

It isn't the output to me as much as the offensive scheme that makes the games different and hard to compare. One of the years that the Pats lost in the SB (2011 I think) the Giants had a horrendous run defense that we never went after. The Pats got down by 2 points and acted like they were down 2 TDs

There's also the possibility that if short passing game didn't work out as well as it did this time vs the Seahawks, then the Pats may have been forced to run more. If that was the case then they might have been better off with Mankins there.

We'll never really be able to say for sure how things might have been with Mankins.

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You're right that it isn't a compelling argument. I only used it to illustrating how horribly flawed the other member's response was.

Aside from that, there are an endless supply of possible scenarios in which having Mankins might have been useful, but that doesn't change that Mankins proved to be superfluous in the way the season actually played out.

patfanken said:

I believe strongly that Mankins was entirely a combination of salary cap and that Mankins was no longer a top 5 OG deserving of that kind of salary. That's not to say he was a bad player, just not a guy worthy of an 11MM dollar cap hit. It was a great trade even though it dropped the OL talent level down a bit. We got a decent year from Wright, a pick, and cap space. All things that made that trade well worth it. Between Wright and what we did with the cap space, it all helped win a championship. I don't think anyone with a functioning mind can question this trade after the fact.

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In bold is something along the line of what I said in the first post I made on this subject (it may have been in another thread). I was as against the trade as anyone, and even I think it would be foolish to call it a bad trade now, after they won it all. It worked to perfection.

Oswlek said:

You're right that it isn't a compelling argument. I only used it to illustrating how horribly flawed the other member's response was.

Aside from that, there are an endless supply of possible scenarios in which having Mankins might have been useful, but that doesn't change that Mankins proved to be superfluous in the way the season actually played out.

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I still get a big grin just thinking about the ending to the season, even now, four months later.

I liked Mankins a lot, but not enough to turn back the clock. My only choice now is to wish that he had been with us for this one. This was one of the best of them all.

1960Pats said:

In bold is something along the line of what I said in the first post I made on this subject (it may have been in another thread). I was as against the trade as anyone, and even I think it would be foolish to call it a bad trade now, after they won it all. It worked to perfection.

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Not to mention the "value" to Tampa bay which went from 4-12 in 2013 to 2-14 in 2015........

Mankins has been a very good player, no doubt. But for a LG to be the 2nd highest cap space on a roster, you must be at the peak of a Hall of Fame career. He wasn't.

shmessy said:

Not to mention the "value" to Tampa bay which went from 4-12 in 2013 to 2-14 in 2015........

Mankins has been a very good player, no doubt. But for a LG to be the 2nd highest cap space on a roster, you must be at the peak of a Hall of Fame career. He wasn't.

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To be fair to Mankins, there were a lot more changes to the 2014 Bucs than just his addition. They also lost Mevis and who knows who else (I haven't followed the Bucs that closely).

1960Pats said:

To be fair to Mankins, there were a lot more changes to the 2014 Bucs than just his addition. They also lost Mevis and who knows who else (I haven't followed the Bucs that closely).

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But he was not a "difference maker" by himself.

It takes 53 players .......and cap space.......and top players at the "difference maker" positions along with good pieces throughout the rest of the roster.

LG is not a "difference maker" position unless the player is the very best in the league and is in the peak of his career.

Mankins, who was, at his peak, a B+/A- LG, was 2-3 years past his peak.

Ross12 said:

We're on to Fred Davis

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At least for a month or two

We are on to Visante Shiancoe

shmessy said:

But he was not a "difference maker" by himself.

It takes 53 players .......and cap space.......and top players at the "difference maker" positions along with good pieces throughout the rest of the roster.

LG is not a "difference maker" position unless the player is the very best in the league and is in the peak of his career.

Mankins, who was, at his peak, a B+/A- LG, was 2-3 years past his peak.

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Agreed with all your points Shmessy, but Mankins at his prime was an elite LG. Just like you said, his prime was up 2 years ago. Still a solid Guard though.

1960Pats said:

It isn't the output to me as much as the offensive scheme that makes the games different and hard to compare. One of the years that the Pats lost in the SB (2011 I think) the Giants had a horrendous run defense that we never went after. The Pats got down by 2 points and acted like they were down 2 TDs

There's also the possibility that if short passing game didn't work out as well as it did this time vs the Seahawks, then the Pats may have been forced to run more. If that was the case then they might have been better off with Mankins there.

We'll never really be able to say for sure how things might have been with Mankins.

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To be fair, in both SB the Giants dominated the LOS. We weren't going to get a lot of yards pounding the ball. And for the most part, the Seahawks did a great job against our run game also.

We did a great job scheming around our weaknesses in the OL last couple of years.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Yet another player who fans swore was "developing" and was going to be an impact player next year. That isn't how it works in New England. You are either good or you aren't.

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Exactly. Jake Bequette proves the point! Oh, wait!

Brady6 said:

There has to be more to this situation because otherwise I cannot see a reason to cut Wright at this juncture of the offseason. He did not cost much and he could have at least been someone who could have some trade value later in camp.

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Sitting outside the organization, we never see more than the tip of the iceberg. We talk on the message board as if we do, but we don't.

Ross12 said:

We're on to Fred Davis

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You spelled Jake Bequette wrong.

10 teams put in a waiver claim on Tim Wright.

Miguel said:

10 teams put in a waiver claim on Tim Wright.

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I wonder why the Patriots couldn't have swapped Wright for a 7th round pick with someone considering how many teams were interested in claiming him.

Tim Mister Wright, who only catches Every Damn Ball thrown to him, was our 2nd-best TE last year
and would've been our 2nd-best TE this year if not for another off-season dumb-ass personnel move.