Patriots OTAs 6/11

Zuma said:

I'm not a fan of Chris Simms (when he was with the Pats and now)...he seems to think Bolden was drafted to be the 3rd down back with the Pats eventually. When he was with the Pats...that was the talk...according to him. Bolden CAN catch...their is no doubt. He also is all over the place on ST.

Nobody outside of the coaching staff has ever seem White do anything good...but Fears acts like he walks on water at this point. Freaky. I don't get it but they know better then the rest of us.

Gaffney has some meat on those bones (220+ lbs). He is build like a 1st down back. I think that's why he is seeing time there in OTA's. According to the PFW guys...he can't catch (I'm just the messenger).

Cadet can't run the rock if his life depended on it. Their is no place for him if he can't do that. I would love to be proven wrong.

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Agreed on Cadet. He'll only give you ~50 or co carries over the regular season. His true value is in the passing game.

Cadet's versatility is BB's wet dream. I would be very surprised if he didn't make the team, no matter who else makes it at RB.

Generally their needs be some kind of threat that a 3rd down back will run. I don't believe Cadet posseses that threat. I see that as a big issue.

Zuma said:

Generally their needs be some kind of threat that a 3rd down back will run. I don't believe Cadet posseses that threat. I see that as a big issue.

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Yep. Thats why I see White and Dion Lewis battling for the primary 3rd down back role.

Cadet is not getting more than 50 carries in this offense.

Here is what I am seeing...

Blount (I think depending on how the others play, there is a chance he doesn't make the team)
Gray v Gaffney
White v Lewis
Bolden
Develin

JE11
Amendola
LaFell
Dobson v Tyms v Gibson

Cadet

Gronk
Chandler
Hooman v Davis (different players but with the release of Wright, I think they view Davis as a better H-Back guy and Chandler- while not as good of a blocker as Hooman can get the job done somewhat. Worst case they can put a OL/Develin at TE)

Zuma said:

Nobody outside of the coaching staff has ever seem White do anything good...but Fears acts like he walks on water at this point.

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I must have missed this, is there a link to an article anywhere?

Zuma said:

Generally their needs be some kind of threat that a 3rd down back will run. I don't believe Cadet posseses that threat. I see that as a big issue.

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It helps, but Vereen was non-threat and he just tied the record for receptions in a super bowl. The Patriots seem to be able to manufacture production out of that spot even with limited personnel.

Oswlek said:

It helps, but Vereen was non-threat and he just tied the record for receptions in a super bowl. The Patriots seem to be able to manufacture production out of that spot even with limited personnel.

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Yes I completely agree. Shane was awesome in the SuperBowl.

Cadet has attempted 11 carries in his NFL career and has a 3.4 average per.

Vereen has attempted 217 carries with an average of 4.2

Oswlek said:

I must have missed this, is there a link to an article anywhere?

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NP http://espn.go.com/blog/new-england...-passionate-comments-about-evaluating-in-otas

RayClay said:

Brady throws a very hard pass usually, so defenders can't get it. seems to be working well so far.

Another example of paralysis by analysis.

Also, besides "hard" he throws where "only the receiver can get it." It's by design.

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That's odd. The quote said it quoted me but that was not my post. System must have had a hiccup.

robertweathers said:

Yep. Thats why I see White and Dion Lewis battling for the primary 3rd down back role.

Cadet is not getting more than 50 carries in this offense.

Here is what I am seeing...

Blount (I think depending on how the others play, there is a chance he doesn't make the team)
Gray v Gaffney
White v Lewis
Bolden
Develin

JE11
Amendola
LaFell
Dobson v Tyms v Gibson

Cadet

Gronk
Chandler
Hooman v Davis (different players but with the release of Wright, I think they view Davis as a better H-Back guy and Chandler- while not as good of a blocker as Hooman can get the job done somewhat. Worst case they can put a OL/Develin at TE)

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There is zero chance Blount fails to make the team.

rochrist said:

There is zero chance Blount fails to make the team.

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Ok....?

Hes a serviceable RB that is being paid $200k if he makes the team and $750k over the course of the season. Dirt cheap dollars for sure but we aren't talking about Curtis Martin here...

I think chandler is going to flourish on the patriots in a #2 TE role where much of the attention is taken off of him.

the guy got production in buffalo playing for a bunch of jag QB's where he was the #1 TE and one of the top targets. now he is going to be playing with Brady along side Rob Gronkowski and a receiving corp that are filled with more weapons than there was in buffalo

RIpats88 said:

I think chandler is going to flourish on the patriots in a #2 TE role where much of the attention is taken off of him.

the guy got production in buffalo playing for a bunch of jag QB's where he was the #1 TE and one of the top targets. now he is going to be playing with Brady along side Rob Gronkowski and a receiving corp that are filled with more weapons than there was in buffalo

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Agree that what we're missing here is the Brady/BB bump for a TE (or any receiver). If Chandler's a RZ and general pass catching threat for the Bills, he's damn sure one for the Pats. No, boo hoo, we don't have the "downfield threat" everybody's always saying you need. So it might take three, four plays to cover the yardage. But God help you if the Pats are in the RZ this year. And I would imagine we'll spend some time in that area of the field

PatsFanInVa said:

Agree that what we're missing here is the Brady/BB bump for a TE (or any receiver). If Chandler's a RZ and general pass catching threat for the Bills, he's damn sure one for the Pats. No, boo hoo, we don't have the "downfield threat" everybody's always saying you need. So it might take three, four plays to cover the yardage. But God help you if the Pats are in the RZ this year. And I would imagine we'll spend some time in that area of the field

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I would say that Dobson & Tyms are the closest thing the team has to "outside burners." I have hope for Dobson, but even if he doesn't work out, Edelman and LaFell have shown the ability to get separation downfield many times.

Ross12 said:

I would say that Dobson & Tyms are the closest thing the team has to "outside burners." I have hope for Dobson, but even if he doesn't work out, Edelman and LaFell have shown the ability to get separation downfield many times.

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They can get separation but it's not a home run threat play after play. You know - the guys where there are 5 of them in the league and everybody demands that we have 1 of them.

I'd say we went toward true balance intentionally, although the secondary still makes me go "huh?" That's where my BB trust is tested, certainly not on the offense. Hoping it's one of the years where I go "Ohhhhhhh that's what was going on."

robertweathers said:

Yep. Thats why I see White and Dion Lewis battling for the primary 3rd down back role.

Cadet is not getting more than 50 carries in this offense.

Here is what I am seeing...

Blount (I think depending on how the others play, there is a chance he doesn't make the team)
Gray v Gaffney
White v Lewis
Bolden
Develin

JE11
Amendola
LaFell
Dobson v Tyms v Gibson

Cadet

Gronk
Chandler
Hooman v Davis (different players but with the release of Wright, I think they view Davis as a better H-Back guy and Chandler- while not as good of a blocker as Hooman can get the job done somewhat. Worst case they can put a OL/Develin at TE)

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Yeah I see it the exact same way...but IMHO Blount is one of the top 16 1st down backs in the league. I just have a higher opinion of him then others perhaps.

But yeah...Blount's backup is probably going to be Gray or Gaffney. Most likely it will be Gray with Gaffney getting about the same amount of carries as Gray did last year....89 (actually the more i think about it...probably closer to 30).

You have White v Lewis as fighting for 3rd down back and not Bolden. I see where your going with that as Bolden is probably not in competition with anyone because he is a ST standout....much like Slater. I think it would be icing on the cake if he proved in the off-season he can be the goto 3rd down back as well. I totally agree with you about Lewis...I could see him being a real spark back there. Develin is pretty much a lock.

Dobson v Tyms v Gibson...I think Boyce should be mentioned...but I still don't think he will crack the top 4-5. Gibson has proven he is an NFL calibre player. He has 2711 yards receiving (it's somewhat similar to Wright v Davis. When Davis' head is screwed on right...you take him every time). Tyms and Dobson are still trying to find their way...
JE11
LaFell
Amendola
Gibson
Dobson

Gronk
Chandler
Hooman v Davis...when Davis is ok in the SQUASH...he starts for most teams. Hooman sticks as well. I don't see it as one vs the other...but more about the opponent and play we have drawn up.

PatsFanInVa said:

They can get separation but it's not a home run threat play after play. You know - the guys where there are 5 of them in the league and everybody demands that we have 1 of them.

I'd say we went toward true balance intentionally, although the secondary still makes me go "huh?" That's where my BB trust is tested, certainly not on the offense. Hoping it's one of the years where I go "Ohhhhhhh that's what was going on."

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I hear you. Funny thing is that guys wanted Fitzgerald or Johnson here, but neither one have that deep speed anymore, they're just really good NFL receivers. But I don't see how either would be that big of a jump over someone like Edelman who is younger and shiftier than both. IMO Edelman doesn't get nearly enough credit, even on this board...

The drop-off tends to be quicker on ability than on reputation... then again, "deep threats" are boom/bust types (with "bust" being defined as "just very good.") You can get a rebound season at any point.

On the other other hand, we're fine without "that one guy." We just got to watch Brady-to-Moss for a while, especially 2007, and that's fueled "but where's the deep threat?" for the rest of Brady's career.

Know what would be a good concept? The next time someone sets up a gimmick league like the XFL, make it a throwback league with no forward passing. I'd watch that. I think. A couple times anyway.

Zuma said:

Yeah I see it the exact same way...but IMHO Blount is one of the top 16 1st down backs in the league. I just have a higher opinion of him then others perhaps.

But yeah...Blount's backup is probably going to be Gray or Gaffney. Most likely it will be Gray with Gaffney getting about the same amount of carries as Gray did last year....89 (actually the more i think about it...probably closer to 30).


You have White v Lewis as fighting for 3rd down back and not Bolden. I see where your going with that as Bolden is probably not in competition with anyone because he is a ST standout....much like Slater. I think it would be icing on the cake if he proved in the off-season he can be the goto 3rd down back as well. I totally agree with you about Lewis...I could see him being a real spark back there. Develin is pretty much a lock.

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I don't think BB views Bolden as a 3rd down back. As you say- outstanding STer. Can catch. Can run. Can pick up the blitz but not a a guy you want out there for 50+ snaps a game.

Blount is RB1 no question. If they gave him 200+ carries, he'd be a 1000yd back- especially if they have improved the run blocking at guard. Gray and Gaffney....thats a pick 'em.

Zuma said:

Dobson v Tyms v Gibson...I think Boyce should be mentioned...but I still don't think he will crack the top 4-5. Gibson has proven he is an NFL calibre player. He has 2711 yards receiving (it's somewhat similar to Wright v Davis. When Davis' head is screwed on right...you take him every time). Tyms and Dobson are still trying to find their way...
JE11
LaFell
Amendola
Gibson
Dobson

Gronk
Chandler
Hooman v Davis...when Davis is ok in the SQUASH...he starts for most teams. Hooman sticks as well. I don't see it as one vs the other...but more about the opponent and play we have drawn up.

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For the reasons you cite is why Boyce is not mentioned.

Hooman and Davis both making the team is a tough one. Not sure I see that happening...

PatsFanInVa said:

They can get separation but it's not a home run threat play after play. You know - the guys where there are 5 of them in the league and everybody demands that we have 1 of them.

I'd say we went toward true balance intentionally, although the secondary still makes me go "huh?" That's where my BB trust is tested, certainly not on the offense. Hoping it's one of the years where I go "Ohhhhhhh that's what was going on."

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There are a hell of a lot more than just 5 deep threats in the NFL.