Tim Wright released

Oswlek said:

1) Sure, but you'd have to demonstrate why trading Mankins hurt the team and then offer specific alternatives. Even then, you'd still have to account to the year of Wright, the draft pick and the cap space they now have this year and next.

2) This is a straw man. Whether Bill made a mistake in some other area doesn't in any way speak to whether the specific trade of Mankins was a bad move.

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The straw man was Ivan who said:

The end result was a Lombardi so I am surprised anyone would complain.

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Winning the Super Bowl does not make the Mankins trade good any more than if Butler had not performed his miracle and they had lost would have made the trade bad.

Hercules Rockefeller said:

And Mankins' injuries never affected his play? I would say one would have to be otherworldly stubborn about their opinions to think that they never did.

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I never said they did. You're battling straw men of your own creation.

Hercules Rockefeller said:

Vollmer is younger, better and more valuable due to the scarcity of excellent tackles. Mankins was a great guard, dominant early in his career, but was overpaid for almost the entire duration of his extension.

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Who gives a damn? All I said was that Mankins was the team's best lineman, in the context of the trade being a bad one. I didn't argue about whether the team should keep Vollmer v. Mankins.

Enough with the strawmen.

voluntarysaftey said:

Wow, maybe Kraft is trying to do what's best for the league by bringing the team back to the middle of the pack.
I'm seriously surprised he couldn't have been traded for a late draft pick

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Another one who thinks Bob Kraft makes player personnel decisions.

The silly season of the mob rule.........

Mack Herron said:

So the remains of the trade is Logan Mankins for Trey Flowers.

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I guess you forgot the 6 TDs.

things change........they probably had him in the plans somewhere........davis and derby likely caused that to change......

patsinthesnow said:

Trade:

Mankins

vs.

cap space
Trey Flowers
not having him pass block in the SB

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+ 6TD's in 2014

Brady6 said:

Good thing we traded Mankins, we got the player we needed to replace Hernandez, and the cap space to resign Revis.

I hope Trey Flowers is good otherwise we gave up one of the better (older I know) LGs in the NFL for nothing.

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Help me here.

The season after the trade:

NE: 32nd pick of the 1st round
TB: 1st pick of the 1st round

How did that trade make the Patriots worse and Tampa Bay better??????

Deus Irae said:

Tampa "won" that trade the day it was made.

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Oh my God, that is classic!!!!!

So the team that went from the 7th pick in the 2014 draft to the 1st pick in the 2015 draft outsmarted the team that won the Super Bowl.

Are you the Finance Minister of Greece?


.

Surprising how the year went for him. Came in with a lot of promise. At one point he was something like 24 completions on 27 targets but completely vanished by the end of the season. I gotta think the guy just refused to open the play book.

shmessy said:

I guess you forgot the 6 TDs.

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Did not forget. The operative word was "remains". A full assessment of the trade is premature in my view, and will need to take into account Wright's year as well as the contributions to be of our draft pick.

And Hooman still has a job, I don't say that in a negative way, kind of surprised he wasn't the one who got cut.

Mack Herron said:

The straw man was Ivan who said:

Winning the Super Bowl does not make the Mankins trade good any more than if Butler had not performed his miracle and they had lost would have made the trade bad.

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The fact that someone else said a straw man doesn't preclude yours from being the same. And you remain logically inconsistent with the end of your statement. What justification do you have to say so? In two cracks against the Giants, Mankins' Patriot teams could barely outscore what NE tallied against a much better Seattle defense in one game. Seems to me that, by your own logic, had NE lost it would have simply been more of the same.

I'm all for a compelling argument as to why the Mankins trade was a bad move, but thus far none has been offered.

Wright was an insurance policy ... we didn't need to use.

No more and no less than that ..... why are people arguing ... it was a sound investment IMO.

Tuck said:

Surprising how the year went for him. Came in with a lot of promise. At one point he was something like 24 completions on 27 targets but completely vanished by the end of the season. I gotta think the guy just refused to open the play book.

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Not sure that I agree that Wright came here with a lot of promise.

My perception is that overall, people felt that he would help in the passing game which he did.

Deus Irae said:

I never said they did. You're battling straw men of your own creation.



Who gives a damn? All I said was that Mankins was the team's best lineman, in the context of the trade being a bad one. I didn't argue about whether the team should keep Vollmer v. Mankins.

Enough with the strawmen.

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You used Vollmer's injuries as the reason why Mankins was better. You cited nothing else--I'll grant you Pro Bowls but I put very little stock in Olineman Pro Bowl totals because they don't reflect year to year play. I used Mankins own injuries as one of the reasons I prefer Vollmer. That is not a strawman.

I then stated a few reasons why I prefer Vollmer. That was the topic of our discussion. I never stated nor implied that the decision was to keep one or the other. That is not a strawman argument either.

I respect your opinions and your views, however I could not respect less this tendency--when you find yourself not winning an argument (a fruitless endeavor when I stated right away that we would have to agree to disagree), or not convincing the other person, you have a tendency to attack the way they're arguing, rather than the substance of the argument. I likely shan't be reengaging in this particular topic with you, but feel free to get the last word as I've made every point I need to.

I hold no grudges and look forward to discourse in the future

Non-blocking receiving "tight end" who had 3 total catches in the last 5 regular season games and 0 catches in the playoffs. He had 4 games all season with more than one catch.

Mack Herron said:

Did not forget. The operative word was "remains". A full assessment of the trade is premature in my view, and will need to take into account Wright's year as well as the contributions to be of our draft pick.

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......as well as the cap space..........

shmessy said:

......as well as the cap space..........

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And what we did with it!

Hercules Rockefeller said:

You used Vollmer's injuries as the reason why Mankins was better. You cited nothing else--I'll grant you Pro Bowls but I put very little stock in Olineman Pro Bowl totals because they don't reflect year to year play. I used Mankins own injuries as one of the reasons I prefer Vollmer. That is not a strawman.

I then stated a few reasons why I prefer Vollmer. That was the topic of our discussion. I never stated nor implied that the decision was to keep one or the other. That is not a strawman argument either.

I respect your opinions and your views, however I could not respect less this tendency--when you find yourself not winning an argument (a fruitless endeavor when I stated right away that we would have to agree to disagree), or not convincing the other person, you have a tendency to attack the way they're arguing, rather than the substance of the argument. I likely shan't be reengaging in this particular topic with you, but feel free to get the last word as I've made every point I need to.

I hold no grudges and look forward to discourse in the future

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I'm not sure what you'd accept as 'evidence', so it's really a non-issue. You offered nothing to support your position, but complain that I offered nothing to support mine. You state that you put little stock in pro bowl totals, yet you gripe about not being presented evidence. In the past 4 seasons, Vollmer had played in 8 games or fewer twice, and has not played a full 16 game season, giving Mankins a 52-37 edge in games played, and Vollmer was clearly limited by injury in a lot of the games he did play, which one would think would be taken into account without it needing to be said, since it was so obvious, but apparently that is not the case.

You created two strawmen and argued against them, rather than what I'd posted. If you don't like being "attacked" for doing that, then don't do that. That would avoid you getting "attacked" for what you actually posted, and also avoid you needlessly taking personal shots at me.

Mack Herron said:

And what we did with it!

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A very wise man once wrote:

"Did not forget. The operative word was "remains". A full assessment of the trade is premature in my view, and will need to take into account Wright's year as well as the contributions to be of our draft pick."

To which I added "......as well as the cap space....." - - REMAINS.


http://overthecap.com/patriots-agree-trade-logan-mankins-buccaneers/

"Tampa Bay will assume Mankins remaining salaries in his contract. Those figures are $6.25 million in 2014 and $7 million in both 2015 and 2016..........The money saved this year will improve their future salary cap position to help extend good players who were drafted in 2010 and 2011 and are up for extensions."