Mike Reiss on What it Would Take for Zero Games For Brady

robertweathers said:

Yep.

I had heard that the NFL forced the Pats to put Jaz and McNally on indefinite leave as opposed to being fired.

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That was the original report, but Goodell emphatically denied that during his recent press conference.

Jackson 2 said:

That was the original report, but Goodell emphatically denied that during his recent press conference.

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Yep. I guess it comes down to who you believe more. Goodell or Adam Schefter- who broke the story.

My fantasy of Brady's press release regarding the phone (purely an emotional release):

"There are several reasons I did not turn over my phone.

1. I am bound by my relationship with the Players' Association not to do so, as has been well reported in the press.
2. Because there was no human intervention with the footballs in the Colts' game in the first place, there was no reason for this investigation to happen other than the continued need of certain NFL personnel to punish the Patriots for our success, due to jealousy and other human failings, using whatever means necessary including corruption of NFL regulation and regulatory process. I won't cooperate with that, because it corrupts the integrity of the game that I love.
3. My phone contains personal conversation between myself and my wife that would be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to media outlets. My wife is the most successful model in the history of modeling, and her personal income is larger than half of the teams in the NFL (discounting the revenue sharing of the national TV contract made possible by the successful teams such as the Patriots). The NFL has shown that it is not trustworthy when it comes to confidential information, including the frequent leaking of information in the matter at hand. I believe that the probability is very high that my personal information would be leaked by NFL personnel, either for personal financial gain or to continue the jealousy-fueled persecution of myself and my teammates, or both."

TommyBrady12 said:

I also get that if Brady turns his phone over it would turn into precedent for other NFL players to turn in their phones. I wouldn't care if I were him - it's his legacy.

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Damn right it's his legacy...and part of that legacy is not to sell out his peers by turning over his phone out of self-interest.

I can't tell you how much the "turn over his phone" thing pisses me off. It's a question of fundamental privacy...there's no way he should ever turn it over for any reason. Period, full stop.

TommyBrady12 said:

Goodell wants to avoid going to court over this which is why he is giving TB a chance for more information in the appeal. I would not be surprised at all if he is looking to rescind the suspension all together but he needs a strong basis to do so - otherwise the public will call for his head.

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You are tremendously misinformed. Goosell, in his ignorance, wants and expects Brady to give him information, even though he isn't bound to and shouldn't.

Brady is going to shut up and let his capable lawyers tear goodnutz a new aperture.

Ross12 said:

It seems like Brady is the wrong guy to mess with. I believe he's a staunch backer of the union... Brady would've wanted any player to get such a ridiculous case to be able to bring this appeals system down, but he ends up getting it himself. It seems like poking a hungry shark with a stick.

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A stick made of bloody seal meat.

chasa said:

goody wont let this get to court, brady is going to walk in with his lawyer, but before any sort of discussion happens, and before brady and kessler even sit down, goodell will already have the signed documents saying the suspension is cut to zero games, and he'll hand it over with his **** eating grin and whisper "the damage has already been done, and now you can't take us to court" and just like that the general public looks at goodell and says "oh see hes tough but fair", and "Kraft accepting the penalty was good for the team, see brady isn't missing any games" and "brady got off easy, shoulda been suspended for the year" But we'll know

people in new england know that the great and powerful commisioner, is really just using smoke and mirrors and he used them to **** us completely in order to give the AFC a chance at sending someone else to the AFCCG

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Wrong. (Italics mine) The general perception will be "Goodell is in Kraft's pocket. The slimy weasal sold the league out to get Kraft to drop his BASELESS* appeal." (*Yeah, I don't agree, but I'm imitating haters - sad I have to add that to avoid 8 dislikes from idiots.)
Anyway, Goodell can not go to 0 without alienating 31 teams. His best is going to court so he can be "forced" by the court. Yes, I know the NFL's interest is to avoid court - Goodell's interest is to look like he's trying to avoid court but was dragged there by the union and none of this is his fault.

Without trying to simplify it too much, this is all about the phone and the precedent. Goodell is punishing Brady for not bending over and giving the NFL rights that are not in the CBA. If Brady did it, precedent would be set and the NFL would have a stronger case in the future. For better or worse, Brady is sticking up for the players and the union to his own, for now at least, detriment.

TommyBrady12 said:

do you not realize that goodell and the rest of the world equate not turning his phone over as guilt? I get it - the league has McNally and Jamestreski's phones which have all their conversations. But the NFL wants to see if there is evidence of Brady texting others about the deflation of footballs including teammates. Also, for all the league knows, McNally's phone could be only a year old and may not have everything on it since 2006. I also get that if Brady turns his phone over it would turn into precedent for other NFL players to turn in their phones. I wouldn't care if I were him - it's his legacy.

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So do you think Gostkowski should turn over his phone? How about Vilma?

PatsWickedPissah said:

I hope they sue and Kraft has to pay each of them $1,000,000

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I hope they also name the NFL and Kraft in an open secret pays their lawyers.

betterthanthealternative said:

Brady's press release regarding the phone:

"There are several reasons I did not turn over my phone.

1. I am bound by my relationship with the Players' Association not to do so, as has been well reported in the press.
2. Because there was no human intervention with the footballs in the Colts' game in the first place, there was no reason for this investigation to happen other than the continued need of certain NFL personnel to punish the Patriots for our success, due to jealousy and other human failings, using whatever means necessary including corruption of NFL regulation and regulatory process. I won't cooperate with that, because it corrupts the integrity of the game that I love.
3. My phone contains personal conversation between myself and my wife that would be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to media outlets. My wife is the most successful model in the history of modeling, and her personal income is larger than half of the teams in the NFL (discounting the revenue sharing of the national TV contract made possible by the successful teams such as the Patriots). The NFL has shown that it is not trustworthy when it comes to confidential information, including the frequent leaking of information in the matter at hand. I believe that the probability is very high that my personal information would be leaked by NFL personnel, either for personal financial gain or to continue the jealousy-fueled persecution of myself and my teammates, or both."

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Might wanna put in that this is what you think he should say. People might think it's real.

lurker1965 said:

So do you think Gostkowski should turn over his phone? How about Vilma?
I hope they also name the NFL and Kraft in an open secret pays their lawyers.

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Gostkowski is not accused of anything.

I don't care about Vilma.

Brady has taken an enormous beating by NFL fans and the press. Some are saying he is not even a top 5 QB anymore because he needed to cheat. Most people (myself not included) would say he is not GOAT anymore. If turning over his cell phone helps, then so be it. Even transcripts instead of the phone itself might help. I don't care about the players on the 31 other teams.

I'm not Tom Brady. But I can't see how a reduction of two games is something a decent person can accept. He has nothing to prove on the field and could retire as the GOAT (arguably) with more than enough $ to be rich for the rest of his life. What money can't buy ? The very honour he yells about pre-SB. The honour for their families. That is worth more than two games it would seem.

Better to miss four games and know you took this BS ruling to the full extent a court will allow than to silently accept a reduction - still miss two names - and never have your say.

I wish BB spilled the beans on everyone - he must have crazy stories after all these years in the league.

There is NO way Bradys suspension is being reduced to 0 games for a number of reasons.

The primary one is that Goodell is fighting for his job here. Do you mean to tell me that another Goodell suspension isn't worth the paper its written on?

http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...goodell-era/xSCIqUiRLta5xlqevPtlMN/story.html

He awarded Vilma a 16 suspension and Vilma appealed and got nothing. 3 other NO Saints suspended in Bountygate got 0 games. Wiped out by Taglibue who heard the appeal. This is why Goodell isn't backing down from hearing the Brady appeal. He is fearful of being made a fool of again.

Ray Rice fought his indefinite suspension and won.

TommyBrady12 said:

it's the only way goodell will reduce the suspension to zero on his own, short of going to court and getting some judge to overturn it. i know brady has a right to not turn his phone over under the CBA, but this is how goodell operates. you guys can disagree all you want but it's the way it is unfortunately. goodell isn't going to listen to some ideal gas law stuff. i wouldn't be surprised if goodell is looking for a way out, but he needs to sell something to the public.

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OK I understand what your saying but I personally want this to go to court which will care about the science along with Rogers abuse of powers etc.... I personally do not understand the legal system well enough to know what the process would be after the appeal but have read other posters opinions who seem to have a pretty good understanding of it. That combined with the my understanding of the Science presented in the Wells report leads me to believe that going to court could do a lot of damage to Goodell and more importantly to the power he currently has. The science in the wells report will not prove that Brady had McNally deflate those footballs or that the footballs were deflated intentionally to begin with. It may even become a detriment to the NFL in court due to it's weakness. It may also, combined with other factors such as how the NFL handled the initial investigation during game time, become the end of Rogers authoritative powers and/or Roger himself.

TommyBrady12 said:

Gostkowski is not accused of anything.

I don't care about Vilma.

Brady has taken an enormous beating by NFL fans and the press. Some are saying he is not even a top 5 QB anymore because he needed to cheat. Most people (myself not included) would say he is not GOAT anymore. If turning over his cell phone helps, then so be it. Even transcripts instead of the phone itself might help. I don't care about the players on the 31 other teams.

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It won't, they ignored all of his testimony and any texts from the dorito dinks that helped the Patriots innocence.

I give a far better chance of Goodell increasing it to 8 games than reducing it to zero games. No way does Goodell wipe out the suspension. I think the most he will do is cut it to two games, but still say that he believes the Wells Report but he cannot prove that Brady did it even though he knows he did.

At last, someone in the media seems to have figured out what I've been posting out here for the last week or so.

The smart thing for Goodell to have done would have been to hand the case over to a highly respected, independent Arbiter, well-regarded for his/her objectivity. If such a person upheld all or part of Brady's Suspension, it would have been difficult (but not impossible) for Brady and NFLPA to litigate further.

But, Goodell couldn't follow that course because of the reasonably measurable probability that such an Arbiter would not only have reduced the Suspension to zero games but would also have trashed the Wells report for the farce that it is, leaving the League and Goodell in an impossible (but delightful!) position.

So, now Goodell is forced to play a game of "chicken" with Tom Brady and a usually toothless NFLPA that seems to have decided to draw a line in the sand with this case.

Does he reduce the suspension to one or two games and hope that Brady quietly accepts the result "for the good of the League?"

Unfortunately for Goodell, that's not likely to be Brady's response. By hiring Jeffrey Kessler to handle an Appeal that will take place around a table in the League offices and that could have played out as a conversation between a QB and his Commissioner, Tom Brady has, to paraphrase the immortal screen words of Sean Connery, "brought a gun to a knife fight"...in this case more like an AK47. The signal is clear. It ain't stopping here.

Or does he reduce the suspension to zero games while jumping through verbal hoops to uphold the validity of the Wells "report" and thereby avoid litigation that would require Depositions under oath by League, Ravens and Colts officials as well as Depositions, under pain of perjury, by Quarterbacks and others in the League going back who knows how long? Goodell's defense of the Wells report would have to be a truly "Through the Looking Glass Statement" since the Wells report exonerated an organization that has, so far, said it would accept the penalties levied upon it for...doing nothing.

The more I think about it, the more I think that that is the most likely outcome.

All Brady has to do is give Goodell "something" on which he can hang his hat to justify a reduction of the suspension to zero games; I don't think it would have to be very much more than a sincere attitude in the room. The presence of Kessler will say everything else. It would be a nice touch if Brady brought Gisele with him to the hearing for "spousal support" and a reminder that he's dealing with people whose net worth is well into nine figures and can afford to litigate until the cows come home.

As a footnote, I'm amazed by the naivete of those in the media who suggest that Brady should be making comments about his position. Why in heck would he do that?

I'm also amazed that people could suggest he turn over his personal phone records to the League. If it were a team phone, it would be another matter. Aside from the fact that he is not obligated to do so by the CBA, Brady's position on this should be "Of course I'll turn my phone records over, but only as part of a litigation process, when League Officials (that means you Kensil) and team officials from the Ravens and Colts also turn their records over for public scrutiny."

BelichickFan said:

Without trying to simplify it too much, this is all about the phone and the precedent. Goodell is punishing Brady for not bending over and giving the NFL rights that are not in the CBA. If Brady did it, precedent would be set and the NFL would have a stronger case in the future. For better or worse, Brady is sticking up for the players and the union to his own, for now at least, detriment.

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This is exactly it. You don't willingly give up your collectively bargained rights, or to a larger extent, your civil rights. You are not guilty simply because of your refusal to comply with an unlawful request!
The ongoing theory in the U.S. is that if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. Which implies that regardless of the situation any refusal is an admission of guilt!

betterthanthealternative said:

Brady's press release regarding the phone:

"There are several reasons I did not turn over my phone.

1. I am bound by my relationship with the Players' Association not to do so, as has been well reported in the press.
2. Because there was no human intervention with the footballs in the Colts' game in the first place, there was no reason for this investigation to happen other than the continued need of certain NFL personnel to punish the Patriots for our success, due to jealousy and other human failings, using whatever means necessary including corruption of NFL regulation and regulatory process. I won't cooperate with that, because it corrupts the integrity of the game that I love.
3. My phone contains personal conversation between myself and my wife that would be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to media outlets. My wife is the most successful model in the history of modeling, and her personal income is larger than half of the teams in the NFL (discounting the revenue sharing of the national TV contract made possible by the successful teams such as the Patriots). The NFL has shown that it is not trustworthy when it comes to confidential information, including the frequent leaking of information in the matter at hand. I believe that the probability is very high that my personal information would be leaked by NFL personnel, either for personal financial gain or to continue the jealousy-fueled persecution of myself and my teammates, or both."

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Beyond #1 above, everything else, while well-intentioned and no doubt true, is way, way, way TMI at this point (and even #1 should end at the words "not to do so" and be stated by his lawyers and not by Brady himself).

Brady should be playing his cards very close to the vest. He doesn't owe anybody an explanation for anything. He should do his talking directly to Goodell, with Jeffrey Kessler at his side and making many of his points on his behalf.

We should not forget that it is Goodell who is the one who is backed into a corner here, not Brady. Brady has nothing to gain and a lot to lose by saying anything before the Appeal.

chasa said:

goody wont let this get to court, brady is going to walk in with his lawyer, but before any sort of discussion happens, and before brady and kessler even sit down, goodell will already have the signed documents saying the suspension is cut to zero games, and he'll hand it over with his **** eating grin and whisper "the damage has already been done, and now you can't take us to court" and just like that the general public looks at goodell and says "oh see hes tough but fair", and "Kraft accepting the penalty was good for the team, see brady isn't missing any games" and "brady got off easy, shoulda been suspended for the year" But we'll know

people in new england know that the great and powerful commisioner, is really just using smoke and mirrors and he used them to **** us completely in order to give the AFC a chance at sending someone else to the AFCCG

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If Goodell does this, then there is a good chance the NFL will be up on slander as well as libel........and all those companies who have deals with Brady would also seem to have ground to seek punitive damages from the league based on the drop in the sales of Brady endorsed products.....If Brady is truly innocent, then it is pretty certain that those companies that Brady endorses will have lawyers knocking on the door of the NFL......potentially, Brady himself could be the least of the NFL's problems