Jet's Babin Supports Brady

and the union..

The veteran linebacker is a former player rep and his grandfather was a union leader in Chicago, where he dealt with Jimmy Hoffa, so Babin can be described as pro-union. But the developments surrounding the Tom Brady/New England Patriots controversy are making him shake his head.

What irks Babin is the severity of Brady's penalty (a four-game suspension) and how commissioner Roger Goodell has complete control of the process, handing down the sanctions and hearing the appeal.

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"The punishment seems extremely harsh, comparative to other punishments for other things -- off the field and performance-enhancement penalties," Babin told ESPN.com. "A lot of guys aren't happy that we gave away the right to a fair and balanced procedure when it comes to discipline, giving carte blanche to the commissioner. A lot of guys, when we re-visit the CBA again, hopefully re-think that option or at least fight for it."

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http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-je...bin-sounds-off-on-deflategate-questions-union

I'm honestly kinda shocked that more players don't have this exact same perspective. Babin's clearly a smart dude who recognizes that it could be him as easily as Brady (if he didn't play for the team that Goodell and Kensil came from, anyway).

Everytime an active player opens his mouth and speaks negatively about Brady, it's just a monumental display of ignorance. I hope each and every one of them get their karmic comeuppance and ends up being next in Goodell's crosshairs.

BradyFTW! said:

I'm honestly kinda shocked that more players don't have this exact same perspective. Babin's clearly a smart dude who recognizes that it could be him as easily as Brady (if he didn't play for the team that Goodell and Kensil came from, anyway).

Everytime an active player opens his mouth and speaks negatively about Brady, it's just a monumental display of ignorance. I hope each and every one of them get their karmic comeuppance and ends up being next in Goodell's crosshairs.

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I understand what you are saying but I find it hard to believe that there is a starting QB on the 32 teams that doesn't know what is happening to the footballs at all times.

BradyFTW! said:

I'm honestly kinda shocked that more players don't have this exact same perspective. Babin's clearly a smart dude who recognizes that it could be him as easily as Brady (if he didn't play for the team that Goodell and Kensil came from, anyway).

Everytime an active player opens his mouth and speaks negatively about Brady, it's just a monumental display of ignorance. I hope each and every one of them get their karmic comeuppance and ends up being next in Goodell's crosshairs.

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Babin is a Jet. He carries a royal decree from NFL HO that states all Jets vermin are exempt from normal policies and procedures.

Brewskies said:

I understand what you are saying but I find it hard to believe that there is a starting QB on the 32 teams that doesn't know what is happening to the footballs at all times.

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And that has nothing to do with the topic.

Sticky Caulk said:

And that has nothing to do with the topic.

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Yes it does because the OP said any player speaking out negatively about Brady is ignorance.

Brewskies said:

I understand what you are saying but I find it hard to believe that there is a starting QB on the 32 teams that doesn't know what is happening to the footballs at all times.

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Can you prove that IGL isn't behind the "deflation?" Because exponent couldn't, and they have successfully defended tobacco companies (2nd hand smoke doesn't cause cancer).

Until this can be unequivocally proven, just what was Tf'nB "generally aware" of?

Brewskies said:

I understand what you are saying but I find it hard to believe that there is a starting QB on the 32 teams that doesn't know what is happening to the footballs at all times.

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1. There is no proof that Patriots' balls were ever tampered with. Indeed, there isn't even any strong evidence.
2. There's affirmative evidence that they were NOT tampered with at the Colts game.
3. Nothing that people construe as "guilty-seeming behavior" indicates a consistent pattern of or process for tampering. Even if there's fire under that alleged smoke, it could be a one-time or two-time thing.

Brewskies said:

Yes it does because the OP said any player speaking out negatively about Brady is ignorance.

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You read him out of context. Not ignorant because they don't believe Brady. Ignorant because these stupid players don't understand that this entire issue is one of Goodell versus the NFLPA. They are going against their own interests without realizing it.

Brewskies said:

Yes it does because the OP said any player speaking out negatively about Brady is ignorance.

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Ok, maybe it isn't "any" player but for me it has been every player or ex player that I've seen speaking out negatively about Brady has been based on ignorant assumptions. For example, I've seen maybe 10 or 12 football players tossing around footballs of various inflation levels and they ask each other if they notice the difference of not. They then say they do and continue on to ask why didn't Brady notice? First the logic is flawed, which was probably hand fed to them by their respective networks, in that any player who has played in any game that was at or below freezing would have played with footballs that were 2 psi or more deflated. So how is it that they never noticed. Second, the Patriot footballs in question were not the 1 - 2 psi deflated as originally leaked out by the NFL via Mortenson but rather 0.3 psi deflated if you take the Wells report verbatim. So they basically run around on stage with a hand fed montra and never realize that they too have played with deflated footballs and they never noticed and that the 2 psi of deflation they are concerned about never existed in the Patriot footballs to begin with.

Fencer said:

1. There is no proof that Patriots' balls were ever tampered with. Indeed, there isn't even any strong evidence.
2. There's affirmative evidence that they were NOT tampered with at the Colts game.
3. Nothing that people construe as "guilty-seeming behavior" indicates a consistent pattern of or process for tampering. Even if there's fire under that alleged smoke, it could be a one-time or two-time thing.

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In the words of Roger Goodell:

"But......but.........Brady never turned over his phone...........and someone called someone the deflator.....and a dorito dink......"

5 Million bucks = 243 pages, two gauges out of calibration, destroyed evidence, pretty little assumption charts based of Gay-Lussac's gas law calculations and assumed time frames, a dorito dink a deflator, and a conclusion of "more probable than not".

And they cannot understand how this looks like total BS.

I have belonged to unions for all of my working life and was on several negotiating teams... the basic expectation is if you give something you get something.

What I cannot understand is what did the NFLPA get to give Roger this much power?? They gave up the ability for rookies to negotiate their own contracts.. they signed a 10 year deal. I am beginning to believe that the whole union was quite naive to believe that the current contract is a good thing..

Brewskies said:

Yes it does because the OP said any player speaking out negatively about Brady is ignorance.

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So you're saying that every NFL quarterback knows what's going on with the ball at all times, which makes this ridiculous, severe penalty on just one quarterback, based on an uproven claim, fair.

Wait, that doesn't make sense. so what are you trying to say?

RayClay said:

So you're saying that every NFL quarterback knows what's going on with the ball at all times, which makes this ridiculous, severe penalty on just one quarterback, based on an uproven claim, fair.

Wait, that doesn't make sense. so what are you trying to say?

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How does an NFL QB control the football when they are on the road?? The home team controls the balls.. as much as the NFL wants us to believe all these stories, the QB has little or no control...

Brewskies said:

I understand what you are saying but I find it hard to believe that there is a starting QB on the 32 teams that doesn't know what is happening to the footballs at all times.

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Why don't we start with the fact that there was nothing wrong with the footballs in the Colts game.

Brewskies said:

I understand what you are saying but I find it hard to believe that there is a starting QB on the 32 teams that doesn't know what is happening to the footballs at all times.

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And the officials handle the footballs on every play as their job, and are charged with making sure every football used is within limits. The report indicates that it was "well known" the Pats play with underinflated footballs, yet strangely no officials raised concerns before this. If you are struggling to believe Brady, then do you find the absence of real prior empirical evidence of footballs used below legal limits in games prior to this troubling? Officials are, after all, the ones who are tasked with upholding those regulations (much like umpires in baseball games).

Nobody here would reasonably claim that a professional QB doesn't know the difference between a softer or firmer football, or have a preference in that regard. But the regulations provide for a specific PSI, not a prohibition against softer footballs. Until 'softer' equals "below legal limits", and nothing is offered to establish that fact, then it in no way constitutes a rule violation.

If you are implying Brady is aware of the state of custody of the footballs before they go to the field, then I would submit that minutiae would be far from a QB's mind given concerns of more pressing items like offensive game plans, defensive study and individual physical preparation pre-game.

As for the OP, I believe anyone in the NFL should worry about this issue given the reality that arbitrary punishment procedures can easily turn on another target, and one day that may be you instead of Brady. Love or hate Brady, but those reveling in his misfortune now had better not byatch when they become the target of Goody's procedures if they celebrate his public flogging in this case.

MassPats38 said:

Nobody here would reasonably claim that a professional QB doesn't know the difference between a softer or firmer football, or have a preference in that regard. But the regulations provide for a specific PSI, not a prohibition against softer footballs. Until 'softer' equals "below legal limits", and nothing is offered to establish that fact, then it in no way constitutes a rule violation.

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I agree with the post but want to add to the "below legal limits" part of the argument.

The NFL never cared or were ignorant of the effects of weather on a football when game time conditions were hotter or colder than the room in which they were tested and any game played in temperatures that were 20 deg hotter or colder than the room temp were played with footballs potentially out of regulation.

If the footballs were inflated to 12.5 psi and checked in a room that was at 70 deg F the following pressure readings would be true as determined by the Gay Lussac's law using 14.7 atm: ( I understand that the atm at Gillette is slightly lower)

Field Temp PSI

48 F 11.27 psi
32 F 10.45 psi
0 F 8.82 psi
-13 F 8.15 psi ( Ice Bowl)

When returned back to the 70 Deg F room the pressure would return to 12.5 psi.

So every football player, referee etc... that has played in or been a part of a game that was below freezing played with or handled footballs that were 2.0 + psi deflated or "softer" and were below regulation.

Brewskies said:

I understand what you are saying but I find it hard to believe....

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I'm not surprised.

Headline 4PM later today: Babin cut from Jets

Brewskies said:

I understand what you are saying but I find it hard to believe that there is a starting QB on the 32 teams that doesn't know what is happening to the footballs at all times.

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I think the biggest counter to this is that seemingly everyone in football failed to realize that balls deflated in the cold. So why would you deflate a ball by .4 PSI when it was already going to be deflated naturally by nearly 2 psi?

Now that we know the science behind it we only now realize that QBs play with footballs set to a wide variety of PSIs depending on how long they've been outside, how they are stored and if it is or isn't wet. Saying that a quarterback would go to great lengths to deflate a football by .4 PSI implies a level of precision to the feel of a ball that is counter to reality. In other words, if McNally is deflating balls by .4 PSI its doubtful that any QB during the game would ever notice.