Why I think Kraft caved in.

Observer said:

For many of us there is simply no going back to football unless this is resolved.

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Your stance is very understandable, and I think we all share your anger and disgust, but in the end this is about jealousy and the prospect of continuing to combat a winning atmosphere. As we know, they are the real cheaters and whiners. From our end, continued success against all odds (again) would be the ultimate "resolution" to this unfortunate situation. Unfortunately, that is going to take some time.

Imagine the hatred and jealousy that will occur if/when Garappolo throws for 2-3 touchdowns and 300+ yards on opening night. Most fans have this assumption that the run will be over soon since Brady is getting old(er), and to see something positive come from this attempt would be almost as sweet as winning the SB. I couldn't imagine the disgust felt around the league from seeing #10 go out and lead them to a 3-1 record, should the suspension hold up.

As far as the resolution that you're speaking about--that will be a matter to be decided in the courts, although my fear is that once the suspension is reduced or overturned altogether, full exoneration still won't be possible. The organization itself is still going to be seen in the same or worse light as before, due to the NFL's findings and punishment imposed. As you note of course, a Brady victory in court would go a long way towards making the situation much more palatable, since the face of the franchise is under fire.

supafly said:

but in the end this is about jealousy and the prospect of continuing to combat a winning atmosphere.

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No, this is about the NFL demonstrating itself to be incompetent, corrupt, or both, and about Robert Kraft demonstrating himself to be part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

supafly said:

Imagine the hatred and jealousy that will occur if/when Garappolo throws for 2-3 touchdowns and 300+ yards on opening night. Most fans have this assumption that the run will be over soon since Brady is getting old(er), and to see something positive come from this attempt would be almost as sweet as winning the SB. I couldn't imagine the disgust felt around the league from seeing #10 go out and lead them to a 3-1 record, should the suspension hold up.

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For the first time in my life when there's football on the TV at the gym instead of watching while on the boring elliptical or whatever, I immediately look away and think nothing more of it. Zero interest.

I am seriously concerned that refs might not officiate fairly and if so will not be restrained or disciplined by the league. I am also concerned that yet another league sanctioned sting or whatever will arise in an attempt to derail Patriots post season success. It's Open Season. The owner just gave carte blanche.

I'm only in this now to see Brady bring down the facade and the whole house, unlikely an outcome as that may be.

Deus Irae said:

No, this is about the NFL demonstrating itself to be incompetent, corrupt, or both, and about Robert Kraft demonstrating himself to be part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

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I think our two statements kind of go hand in hand, no? The fact that they've been attempting to level the playing field through any means necessary speaks volumes about their corruption, although I don't personally expect that to change or even come out in court.

I don't have much of an opinion on Kraft, since much like Jan--current, people are making assumptions based on hunches. While the thought of him hugging Goodell disgusts me, I don't have enough information to determine what the best course of action was. I would think that his legal representation would have helped him to weigh those decisions based on having more relevant information.

At the end of the day, I'd have much rather seen him make a futile appeal just for the sake of appealing, I do know that.

It'll be 4 weeks max before a "source" complains that the Patriots are doing something suspicious and we will be back to the beginning again. How do people not realize this?

supafly said:

Your stance is very understandable, and I think we all share your anger and disgust, but in the end this is about jealousy and the prospect of continuing to combat a winning atmosphere. As we know, they are the real cheaters and whiners. From our end, continued success against all odds (again) would be the ultimate "resolution" to this unfortunate situation. Unfortunately, that is going to take some time.

Imagine the hatred and jealousy that will occur if/when Garappolo throws for 2-3 touchdowns and 300+ yards on opening night. Most fans have this assumption that the run will be over soon since Brady is getting old(er), and to see something positive come from this attempt would be almost as sweet as winning the SB. I couldn't imagine the disgust felt around the league from seeing #10 go out and lead them to a 3-1 record, should the suspension hold up.

As far as the resolution that you're speaking about--that will be a matter to be decided in the courts, although my fear is that once the suspension is reduced or overturned altogether, full exoneration still won't be possible. The organization itself is still going to be seen in the same or worse light as before, due to the NFL's findings and punishment imposed. As you note of course, a Brady victory in court would go a long way towards making the situation much more palatable, since the face of the franchise is under fire.

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The issue for me is not hate from other fans etc. That is always the case for fans, there is no logical reason at work there and it is too much to expect opposing fan bases to show support. The issue for me is the conduct of the body that governs the sport. The foundation for any sport is the expectation of the non-partisan referee. But here we have the case that the highest level of the body is corrupt, is arbitrary in rule making and enforcing, and routinely makes sideshows more important than the game itself. I simply dont trust that what I am watching is real.

I dont have problems with fan hate. I have problems with the NFL and any second I watch an NFL game implies supporting the NFL so I refuse to do it until they restore my faith. I can't support the Patriots because the Patriots is Kraft's company and Kraft has declared that he is first and foremost a part of the NFL The only party I support here is Brady and if this goes without proper resolution then I am done with the NFL.

No, this is about the NFL demonstrating itself to be incompetent, corrupt, or both, and about Robert Kraft demonstrating himself to be part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

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Kraft has been part of the problem for a while now if we look back on it.. He dropped the ball on Spygate, Ray Rice and now deflate gate. With how he ditched his wife on her death bed - and the pics of him with the escort. Well we have a 'new' narrative to describe Kraft..

We might have beat the Raiders - in the tuck game - but I think they had us beat in ownership..

Observer said:

For many of us there is simply no going back to football unless this is resolved. As it stands football is a sham- can't trust the organization that runs it, can't trust any owner, can't trust any referees or officials. How am I supposed to get on board with this?

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As in life, nothing is perfect..

Observer said:

The issue for me is not hate from other fans etc. That is always the case for fans, there is no logical reason at work there and it is too much to expect opposing fan bases to show support. The issue for me is the conduct of the body that governs the sport. The foundation for any sport is the expectation of the non-partisan referee. But here we have the case that the highest level of the body is corrupt, is arbitrary in rule making and enforcing, and routinely makes sideshows more important than the game itself. I simply dont trust that what I am watching is real.

I dont have problems with fan hate. I have problems with the NFL and any second I watch an NFL game implies supporting the NFL so I refuse to do it until they restore my faith. I can't support the Patriots because the Patriots is Kraft's company and Kraft has declared that he is first and foremost a part of the NFL The only party I support here is Brady and if this goes without proper resolution then I am done with the NFL.

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I think Kraft will be surprised at how many fans he loses over this. He may not care though. The tv money has become so astronomical that teams could play in empty stadiums and the owners would still make a profit.

When Kraft and his family (the NFL) say that they lost revenue, they mean that they thought they were going to increase revenue by 12% but only increased it by 9%. They call that a 3% loss.

I certainly view the NFL* as corrupt. Even if you grant the Wells report its conclusions on the face of it - and to me, that right there is a sham, when its numerical component rests on the assumption of reversing the testimony of their own officials - the "penalty" phase rests on an earlier "penalty" that's specific to the Patriots. Comparable behavior preceded the last sham proceedings on the part of other teams; Comparable behavior preceded this unproven infraction on the part of other teams; neither merited any penalty. "That's football," if it's anybody else. For us, total 2 first rounders and a 4th rounder, plus a 4 game suspension for the GOAT QB.

So even bending over backward to say - and this is, by the admission of the NFL*, unproven - "Yeah you got us", this stinks of off-field "leveling." Of course the other 31 owners like it. They can't beat us on the field. Big surprise that it's teams that can't get past us that pull this crap.

So I'm still watching, I'm still a fan. Maybe it's my version of liking Wrestler X more than Wrestler Y in WWE. Sad, when you think that this was once one of the "major" sports that were tracked as somehow "real" games -- the equivalent of what you played as a kid, when someone won, someone lost, and wahhh, losers sometimes cried that something wasn't fair, which got them bupkes. The score is the score.... and everybody knows if someone really cheated. None of this "if you measure with Gauge 1, then measure with Gauge 2, then take into account for the ideal gas law, now follow the ball its under one of the three cups, keep watching it, hold on what's in that text over there..."

I'm not going to waste my time and virtual breath trying to get other fans to keep watching the NFL*, because, for exactly the reasons I stuck the asterisk there, it's proven itself to be intentionally attempting to take down one of its constituent franchises.

All I'm saying is that the Pats banner over my computer stays there, despite the Mrs. insistence that my bedroom at our age should not look like a college dorm. And the Pats, unfortunately, play in the NFL*, cheatery as that "league*" is. So I'm stuck.

Some of the fans that are just un-friending the NFL* and the Pats are younger, or jumped the bandwagon, and some have been with the team 50 years. I don't blame any one of them.

I just don't expect anything from the Brady appeal but the possible restoration of some playing time. I think even if we go 0-4 we end up in the playoffs this year with a big chip on our collective shoulder. It's a "maybe" rather than a "done deal" that we win the division - hmmmm sounds like the "parity" (or parody) that the League* wants, right? What a coinkidink.

I wouldn't be surprised if Brady gets in Goodell's office, Goody has a lackey close the door, he puts his shoes on the desk and says,

"Tommy, fact is, you win too much. You do the 4 games. Now let's talk about the weather or something for half an hour so it looks like there was a meeting. One word of this and football's over for you. You and I both know I've been granted the power to do that."

And I don't think TFB goes the court route. Maybe yes, maybe no, I just don't hang my hat on it.

Which means, for me, I don't have a choice - on to 2015, until I see otherwise. I'll add that I'm always wrong, so this would be a fine time to be wrong.

I just see anybody looking for vindication as stretching out the inevitable. You won't get "full vindication." Even vindication would come with a raft of other **** that we haven't even seen before, some **** about when you're allowed to re-lace a cleat or some crap, which would immediately become the "latest" way the Pats "cheat," even though everybody else in the league does it too and has never heard of the rule. ("Hold on, that rule is written in crayon...")

Doesn't matter. What happens on the tilted field is all that matters at this point. I know they've tilted it, don't get me wrong. But that's the lay of the land evidently.

Another year, another ring, another "asterisk" from the NFL* and a bunch of whiny Clots/Jest fans... yeah I'd be okay with that. The whole league is spending its time looking for new excuses for losing to the Pats a this point. There is no greater flattery.

supafly said:

I think our two statements kind of go hand in hand, no? The fact that they've been attempting to level the playing field through any means necessary speaks volumes about their corruption, although I don't personally expect that to change or even come out in court.

I don't have much of an opinion on Kraft, since much like Jan--current, people are making assumptions based on hunches. While the thought of him hugging Goodell disgusts me, I don't have enough information to determine what the best course of action was. I would think that his legal representation would have helped him to weigh those decisions based on having more relevant information.

At the end of the day, I'd have much rather seen him make a futile appeal just for the sake of appealing, I do know that.

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This was about the team and it's fans, but Kraft thought it was all about him, legal advice played no role in his decision because we all knew they would lose in court because the owners gave that power away. When Kraft said it was " time to stop the rhetoric " he was talking about the team taking shots at the Wells Report and criticizing the league office, I.e... Unilateral surrender so he could be allowed back in the treehouse. It was a stupid and selfish move and it cost him the support of most of their fan base, and rightfully so.

PatsWickedPissah said:

For the first time in my life when there's football on the TV at the gym instead of watching while on the boring elliptical or whatever, I immediately look away and think nothing more of it. Zero interest.

I am seriously concerned that refs might not officiate fairly and if so will not be restrained or disciplined by the league. I am also concerned that yet another league sanctioned sting or whatever will arise in an attempt to derail Patriots post season success. It's Open Season. The owner just gave carte blanche.

I'm only in this now to see Brady bring down the facade and the whole house, unlikely an outcome as that may be.

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It's been coming to this for a while but watching game 1 of the Stanley Cup Falls last night I realized that hockey is now my favorite sport.

BigPeteG said:

Kraft has been part of the problem for a while now if we look back on it.. He dropped the ball on Spygate, Ray Rice and now deflate gate. With how he ditched his wife on her death bed - and the pics of him with the escort. Well we have a 'new' narrative to describe Kraft..

We might have beat the Raiders - in the tuck game - but I think they had us beat in ownership..

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I have to agree with you on how Kraft has ended up looking through all of this.

I think we mostly agree that the success of an organization starts at the top and we have always felt fortunate to have one of the best owners in the league.

That may be true, but it is looking far more relative than it did not so long ago. The kindest shark is still a shark after all.

A fish rots from the head down, and it looks like our own fish head isn't as fresh as we thought it was.

I wish it wasn't so, but it is what it is.

I was tempted to write another rant about all things NFL and Kraft, but screw it. What can I do about anything? Nothing!!! The rich get richer with or without my help or support. So FU NFL, your now equal to the MLB to me.
Which I suppose will eventually get a story in the Globe about baseballs surge to the top of the Boston market. See, you just can't win.

Patstopia said:

I was tempted to write another rant about all things NFL and Kraft, but screw it. What can I do about anything? Nothing!!! The rich get richer with or without my help or support. So FU NFL, your now equal to the MLB to me.
Which I suppose will eventually get a story in the Globe about baseballs surge to the top of the Boston market. See, you just can't win.

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http://baseballhall.org/hof/perry-gaylord

Gaylord Jackson Perry
Inducted to the Hall of Fame in: 1991
Primary team: San Francisco Giants
Primary position: Pitcher

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Never happen in the NFL*... if he played for NE anyway

Ivan said:

It was a stupid and selfish move and it cost him the support of most of their fan base, and rightfully so.

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I understand what you're saying and agree to some extent, although I don't believe that it cost him "the support of most of their fan base." I would imagine that Kraft has lost 10-20-30 percent of his fanbase, and even then some will return when the games start. I wonder how many new bandwagon fans were gained from winning the SB alone?

As far as him not hearing any input from his team and private attorneys on the matter, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. From the looks of things, the design of the website and decision to make it public would likely speak otherwise.

When your team is worth billions - even a loss of 5% is pretty significant. That combined with the bad press the NFL will get out of the Tom Brady lawsuit will hurt them..

The NFL could have just slapped the Patriots with a fine - and everyone would have moved on. Kraft and Goodell really bungled this. What a waste of money..

supafly said:

I understand what you're saying and agree to some extent, although I don't believe that it cost him "the support of most of their fan base." I would imagine that Kraft has lost 10-20-30 percent of his fanbase, and even then some will return when the games start. I wonder how many new bandwagon fans were gained from winning the SB alone?

As far as him not hearing any input from his team and private attorneys on the matter, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. From the looks of things, the design of the website and decision to make it public would likely speak otherwise.

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I never said he didn't get input from his attorneys in fact I'm certain he did. What i said was that it wasn't about his chances of winning on appeal, it was about Robert Kraft's standing among the the owners. Everyone knew there was little to no chance he would win on appeal because of the authority the owners gave to Goodell. Kraft gave King an interview the night before the owners meetings started and gave the impression he was going to continue the fight they started with the Wells Report in Context yet by midday the next n day was at a microphone with his tail between his legs talking about how destructive the rhetoric was to the 32. He also spoke about how wonderful it felt to be a part of that club and how he would never do anything to hurt that. It wasn't about what a rim job the Wells Report was for the league office or about how ridiculous the findings of it were or ludicrous the sanctions were, it was about his place at the table and how he simply couldn't stand being the one upsetting the golden applecart. He caved because he didn't like being the rebellious owner and desperately wanted back his image of being THE MAN WHO SAVED FOOTBALL, so he three his team, his QB, and the fans all under the bus so they would rub his back and tell him it was all going to get better just so long as he didn't make any waves.

As far as support among fans and standing with the fans it was as close to 100% as it could get when we believed he was going to stand his ground, it's what everyone wanted even though we knew he would lose in the end, and while he may have only lost 20+30 of his support outside of New England every indicatiion is that it's closer to 80-90% within New England, and as it stands right now there is a strong likelihood he will get booed out of the stadium if he tries to be the one raising the banner, and as tone deaf as he has been about his capitulation I would guess he plans on doing just that. It's going to be a really ugly scene if he goes out and tried to pull another We Are All Patriots speech when they raise that banner.

Patstopia said:

I was tempted to write another rant about all things NFL and Kraft, but screw it. What can I do about anything? Nothing!!! The rich get richer with or without my help or support. So FU NFL, your now equal to the MLB to me.
Which I suppose will eventually get a story in the Globe about baseballs surge to the top of the Boston market. See, you just can't win.

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Fortunately Patriot fans have an outlet to show their disgust. I drove down to Logan to drop off the gf and decided to drive down to Foxborough to check out Patriot Place and see if they were practicing and got lucky and they were having a morning session so I watched it, had some food at the tents and went to the pro shop and bought a t shirt and hat before heading home. Now however I will never buy another item of NFL sponsored hear every again and I will never spend a nickel at Patriot Place, and will never go into the CBS Scene there, and Evey Patriot fan out there can do the same. Bruins hats are now the ones I wear most often and much as wish it were different I will never buy another Patriot hat, t shirt or sweat shirt. It may not make much of a difference but at least it's a way to show our disgust.

Ivan said:

As far as support among fans and standing with the fans it was as close to 100% as it could get when we believed he was going to stand his ground, it's what everyone wanted even though we knew he would lose in the end, and while he may have only lost 20+30 of his support outside of New England every indicatiion is that it's closer to 80-90% within New England, and as it stands right now there is a strong likelihood he will get booed out of the stadium if he tries to be the one raising the banner, and as tone deaf as he has been about his capitulation I would guess he plans on doing just that. It's going to be a really ugly scene if he goes out and tried to pull another We Are All Patriots speech when they raise that ban

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I hope and pray that the fans give Kraft the greeting he deserves for his conduct! We may not have a say about the team, but we have a voice that cannot be silenced! I cannot understand why anyone would cheer this hypocrite to begin with.

I Love the Pats. I am sick of the NFL. And most of all I am no longer a Kraft supporter!