Why I think Kraft caved in.

BigPeteG · May 31, 2015

Wrong.

What the OP and SO MANY forum goers don't understand is this EXACT same thing happened with SpyGate. The Patriots DID NOT violate a rule in the rulebook - they choose to ignore a memo because it didn't match the rulebook and they did not think it was enforceable.

But Kraft CAVED. The Patriots had a very clear case - and he did not defend them at all. The Patriots were branded cheaters by ESPN because of that 'scandal'. Kraft could have stepped up and said - hey Commish you can't go making up rules. I stand by my team.

It's the exact same **** now - with the exact same result from Kraft. Kraft cant bothered to fight for the team he owns. He just backs down. I think he is older now - and not as sharp - so he can be badgered into stupid decisions by Goodell and company. Backing down hurts the Patriots brand and it hurts the NFL to let a Commish get away with making up stuff as he goes along.

No one wins from this Kraft decision - not Kraft, not the fans, not the NFL and not the other 31. Rob Ford wasn't good for Toronto and this Goodell is not good for the NFL. Stop looking for the silver lining. There was none with spygate and there is none here. The only good news is that they went after Brady and maybe that can get Goodell out of there. A huge lawsuit levied against the NFL should do the job..No one likes lawyers suing them..

Tony2046 · May 31, 2015

Patriot Missile said:
It was like a rerun of Deliverance. It must not have been cozy for Kraft.

"You Shore have a pretty mouth, boy"

Angelpats · May 31, 2015

You would think a man like Kraft nearing the end of his life would care more about the legacy he leaves behind. He even said Brady is like one of his sons. He has to know that nothing happened and that the balls just naturally lost pressure because of the lower temperature. He has to know that Brady is telling the truth. But turns his back to his legacy and his son so he can hug people that spits in his face.
This whole thing has been stupid. There is no reason for the anyone to lie here. If Brady or deflator or Doritos dink did anything they would just say they did it because it's really no big deal.

PatsFanInVa · May 31, 2015

VectorPrime said:
This is probably the least likely thing to ever happen in history.

|--------------|-------------|-----------------|------------------|---------------------------------|
robot ...........................ape....................winning land war................monkeys fly out..........................JEST win SB...............................................................................This Post
uprising...............uprising...........................in Asia................................. of my butt

BigPeteG · Jun 1, 2015

You would think a man like Kraft nearing the end of his life would care more about the legacy he leaves behind. He even said Brady is like one of his sons.

He is one of his sons that principal said was cheating on a test because his score was too high - and Kraft didn't listen to his own kid explain that he didn't cheat and that there was no evidence that he did cheat or needed to. After all he is top of his class anyway - and always has been.

Brady might be like a son - but that doesn't mean Kraft is like a good dad..

RayClay · Jun 1, 2015

BigPeteG said:
Wrong.

What the OP and SO MANY forum goers don't understand is this EXACT same thing happened with SpyGate. The Patriots DID NOT violate a rule in the rulebook - they choose to ignore a memo because it didn't match the rulebook and they did not think it was enforceable.

But Kraft CAVED. The Patriots had a very clear case - and he did not defend them at all. The Patriots were branded cheaters by ESPN because of that 'scandal'. Kraft could have stepped up and said - hey Commish you can't go making up rules. I stand by my team.

It's the exact same **** now - with the exact same result from Kraft. Kraft cant bothered to fight for the team he owns. He just backs down. I think he is older now - and not as sharp - so he can be badgered into stupid decisions by Goodell and company. Backing down hurts the Patriots brand and it hurts the NFL to let a Commish get away with making up stuff as he goes along.

No one wins from this Kraft decision - not Kraft, not the fans, not the NFL and not the other 31. Rob Ford wasn't good for Toronto and this Goodell is not good for the NFL. Stop looking for the silver lining. There was none with spygate and there is none here. The only good news is that they went after Brady and maybe that can get Goodell out of there. A huge lawsuit levied against the NFL should do the job..No one likes lawyers suing them..

They chose to ignore a memo from the people who make the rules, because it wasn't in the rule book?

I mean, I think the whole thing was a crock, but if the league sends out a memo that prohibits what you are doing, you should challenge it against the rule book then, not afterwards.

RobAllan · Jun 1, 2015

RayClay said:
They chose to ignore a memo from the people who make the rules, because it wasn't in the rule book?

I mean, I think the whole thing was a crock, but if the league sends out a memo that prohibits what you are doing, you should challenge it against the rule book then, not afterwards.

Well, in the first place, it was part of the Field Operations Guide (I may have the wrong name here, but the book that's about how long grass can be and whatnot,) not the official rulebook. This is of interest because my understanding is all this PSI stuff is in the Field Ops guide too.

Secondarily, it was my understanding at the time that in addition to the memo not matching the Field Ops guide, it was also phrased incorrectly in the memo with regard to the taping itself. I believe some of the rub was that it didn't say you could not tape it said you could not use that tape on Sundays, which they weren't going to. (This also made sense because a team would change their signals each Sunday anyway so there'd be little competitive advantage after the fact.) I believe, then, that the Pats were in line both with the rule, the memo, and the spirit of the rule. It's hard to say because a lot of the info that came out was a bit stifled since Kraft decided then not to fight it as well. But I think the point was BB said "we're not using the tape Sunday" and Goodell came back with "you're not supposed to tape at all," which isn't what the rule, nor the memo said.

I'm sure others with better memories can add more, but essentially the Cameragate thing was BS too.

PatsWickedPissah · Jun 1, 2015

RayClay said:
I can't help but equate the less than two weeks giving up on Kraft to some of the talk the beginning of last season about Brady and the team. Four full weeks into the season and it was all over and Brady was washed up. Never changes.

Say what?

One of these things is nothing like the other.

The Gr8est · Jun 1, 2015

RobAllan said:
Well, in the first place, it was part of the Field Operations Guide (I may have the wrong name here, but the book that's about how long grass can be and whatnot,) not the official rulebook. This is of interest because my understanding is all this PSI stuff is in the Field Ops guide too.

Secondarily, it was my understanding at the time that in addition to the memo not matching the Field Ops guide, it was also phrased incorrectly in the memo with regard to the taping itself. I believe some of the rub was that it didn't say you could not tape it said you could not use that tape on Sundays, which they weren't going to. (This also made sense because a team would change their signals each Sunday anyway so there'd be little competitive advantage after the fact.) I believe, then, that the Pats were in line both with the rule, the memo, and the spirit of the rule. It's hard to say because a lot of the info that came out was a bit stifled since Kraft decided then not to fight it as well. But I think the point was BB said "we're not using the tape Sunday" and Goodell came back with "you're not supposed to tape at all," which isn't what the rule, nor the memo said.

I'm sure others with better memories can add more, but essentially the Cameragate thing was BS too.

Also, except for delusional Rats fans, are there any thinking fans who still think Roger Goodell destroyed the tapes to protect the Pats?

Based on his continuing efforts to bring parity to the league, it is more likely that what was on the tapes would work against that goal; possibly showing illegal activities by Pats opponents.

Ivan · Jun 1, 2015

PatsWickedPissah said:
Say what?

One of these things is nothing like the other.

Yep. In one instance the chicken little who always quit on the team at the first sign of adversity did what they v are programmed to do, and in the other instance Bob Kraft quit on the team and fans when he had literally 100% prevent support from the fans.

Now that I think about it getting unanimous support for anything other than a game is a very rare occurrence in Patriot nation, and Bobby somehow managed to turn 100% support into 99% outrage.

Well played Bobby.

1960Pats · Jun 1, 2015

RobAllan said:
Not sure why we're digging deeper than the obvious for motive. Hard to reconcile that Kraft is an asshat for some of us, I guess. But he was pretty transparent in his presser about why he was doing what he was doing. That's why so many of us are hating on him now. He also made it pretty clear that he knew fans would be upset and he didn't care.

Far as I'm concerned this is irreconcilable differences territory.

This is why I think that many fans will follow Brady and/0r Belichick out the door.

The whole thing has been like an episode of One Step Beyond.

Thank goodness for Malcolm Butler and the greatest defensive play in NFL history.

1960Pats · Jun 1, 2015

flasox27 said:
This is the funniest thread I have seen in months. Its obvious Kraft is in this for the money with his relationship with his partners a close second. The team and its fans are not even in his picture. He did even try to sugarcoat it in his pathetic news conference.

There are some fans here who are perfectly willing to carry the torch for Kraft. Maybe he knew what he was doing when he blew us off.

XLIX · Jun 1, 2015

RobAllan said:
Well, in the first place, it was part of the Field Operations Guide (I may have the wrong name here, but the book that's about how long grass can be and whatnot,) not the official rulebook. This is of interest because my understanding is all this PSI stuff is in the Field Ops guide too.

I think you're referring to the NFL Game Operations Manual.

The acceptable PSI levels (12.5 to 13.5) are listed in the rulebook itself on the page which discusses "The Ball". However, as we all now know, having a legal range of only 1 PSI is ridiculous for a game played in extreme elements. Heck, we don't even need "extreme elements" to bring a properly inflated ball down below 12.5.... 50 degrees will do it.

The Game Operations Manual is the book which specifies the things you cannot do to the ball and recommends a guideline of a $25,000 fine for tampering with the ball after inspection.

So when Carolina gets caught red handed tampering with the ball they get a mildly-worded letter of warning. When the Patriots are found guilty to have tampered on the flimsiest of evidence, well you know the rest.

Ring 6 · Jun 1, 2015

Ivan said:
Really Andy? You are going to take that literally?

I guess my answer is that they didn't want to see him thrown in the hole.

I have no idea what you mean, but I am trying to understand why Kraft would be a pariah for appealing when no one else has ever been, and why even if that were the case he would bend over and give away a right other owners routinely exercise.

BigPeteG · Jun 1, 2015

I have no idea what you mean, but I am trying to understand why Kraft would be a pariah for appealing when no one else has ever been, and why even if that were the case he would bend over and give away a right other owners routinely exercise.

This. I think the real reason Kraft didn't appeal is because it was putting a harsh on his party. It's really that simple. It might have felt right at the time - but if Tom Brady goes after the NFL in court likely he is going to end up feeling pretty stupid. I have no doubt that he devalued his team some with that decision as well.

Ring 6 · Jun 1, 2015

RayClay said:
They chose to ignore a memo from the people who make the rules, because it wasn't in the rule book?

I mean, I think the whole thing was a crock, but if the league sends out a memo that prohibits what you are doing, you should challenge it against the rule book then, not afterwards.

Are we really doing this again?
The memo stated that filming FOR USE DURING THAT GAME was allowed only from certain areas.
The Patriots changed nothing because they were not using the tape in that game.
The NFL said, no, what we said wasn't what we meant. Kraft caved.

5thRing-Hunt · Jun 1, 2015

goz421 said:
Upon contemplating the sudden turn of events I starting to think The owners and Goodell decided to take this approach. I'm sure they told Kraft all of next season the balls will be measured before and after games. That if if shown the balls can naturally deflate to the level they did in Colts game then then penalization of the draft picks will be revisited.

looks like you found a way to time travel because apparently you're somehow posting from a couple months ago when we were hopeful Goodell wasn't as big of an idiot as he is.

Ivan · Jun 1, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
I have no idea what you mean, but I am trying to understand why Kraft would be a pariah for appealing when no one else has ever been, and why even if that were the case he would bend over and give away a right other owners routinely exercise.

1) Because I was obviously joking.

2) Because the Patriots weren't just appealing they were shredding the Wells Report and league office on a daily basis and making them look every bit as corrupt as they actually are, and since Kraft was the one publicly telling everyone to get behind Goodell and shut up he was looking like a complete hypocrite to the other owners. Kraft wants his legacy to be the man who saved football and decided screwing his teams and fans was preferable to being an outcast owner.

ThatllMoveTheChains!!! · Jun 1, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
Are we really doing this again?
The memo stated that filming FOR USE DURING THAT GAME was allowed only from certain areas.
The Patriots changed nothing because they were not using the tape in that game.
The NFL said, no, what we said wasn't what we meant. Kraft caved.

But see the Patriots were running the tapes up too Mr Adams!

Wasn't that the theory? When accusing the patriots of cheating logic and reason seem to go out the window. There are these assumptions that the Patriots are capable of amazing feats in the name of cheating yet it's unbelievable that they are capable of them within the rules.

everlong · Jun 1, 2015

It's called Krafting.

Why I think Kraft caved in.

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