Cardona cleared to play, apparently

Patriot Missile said:

Tbh I'd rather he just got it out of the way as soon as he makes the team. If Roger Staubach and David Robinson did two years I find it perfectly acceptable for Cardona to do his. I'd be proud to have him as a Patriot when he returned.

Click to expand...

The problem is that almost nobody can leave football for two years and return at a pro level. These guys have been eating and sleeping football for 10+ years just to become marginally better than their peers doing the same. It's not the 60's anymore with guys doing part-time jobs. In order to play at this level you need to commit your life to it.

Gwedd said:

There have been a few cases where Midshipmen have been expelled or refused to accept a commission after graduation. In those cases, they were ordered (and forced) to pay back the cost(s) of their education. Something in the neighborhood of $160K for the four years. The Navy (and the Army for their guys) considered that the student was repaying the tax payers, since it is we, the people, who pay for that education.

I agree completely with that idea. Having said that, in the fine print there's a line about "you agree to accept a commission, if offered". It was the same thing I had in my contract with the Army ROTC program. If you fail to accept, for whatever reason, they can involuntarily induct you for a 6-year standard contract as an enlisted man (or woman, as the case may be).

The Navy can also delay the commission, for a certain length of time, or have the individual also serve in the reserve component while awaiting a slot for active duty. They can also reduce, or lower the amount of time required for your active duty commitment. That's what happened with Roger Staubach, who was another Naval Academy graduate. He did 2 years active duty, including service in Vietnam, and then came back to play with the Cowboys.

I suspect that in Cardona's case, if he makes the team, he could have his active-duty time waived for 2 years, or even be released from his commitment altogether, depending upon the needs of the Navy.

It's going to be interesting to watch and see what happens.

Click to expand...

Most of this is true. I do have one question that I can't seem to find an answer to.

Do the academies recruit for their football teams? I would assume they have to because just because you can fly a fighter, doesn't mean you can throw a football. If this is the case, the military has no leg to stand on if one out of 40k get drafted (fictious number).

Bobsyouruncle said:

The problem is that almost nobody can leave football for two years and return at a pro level. These guys have been eating and sleeping football for 10+ years just to become marginally better than their peers doing the same. It's not the 60's anymore with guys doing part-time jobs. In order to play at this level you need to commit your life to it.

Click to expand...

I agree. Wasn't happy with the 5th round pick they used on him regarding the situation. Probably could of got him with a late 6th or 7th maybe? I don't have the facts on who was looking at him either though. However, he's a Patriot regardless and I'm going to support him now regardless and hope for the best. That's pretty much all you can do at this point because this truly is out of everyone else's hand except the US Navy and Joe Cardona. Hope your wrong about the 2 year out of football thing.

The military will let people out for all sorts of reasons. You can even get out for winning the lotto. The chances of making an NFL roster are exceptionally small. I don't think it's difficult to say if you make a roster you can get out of your commitment. What happens, they lose like one guy every 5 years. Drop in the bucket. If they want they can have them pay back the scholarship or serve post-football.

It's just cruel and unnecessary to make someone give up a once in a lifetime opportunity to go do something they could do at a later date.

Todd Bradley said:

Listen, I never like to question Bill, but first off, why in the world would you spend a fifth-round draft pick on a Long Snapper, who pretty much could've been a UDFA singing, and secondly, why spend it on a guy who may have to leave the team at some point in the near future?

Seems like there's now controversy, however small it may be, for what should otherwise be the most controversy-free position.

A fifth-round Cornerback would look might fine on the roster over Cardona. No offense to him, as he could possibly end up being the league's greatest LS of all-time, who knows, but that is not a position you invest a solid draft pick into when there's a glaring need on this roster.

Rant over.

Click to expand...

The reason is why he is BB and you are not. Or me for that matter. With the XP being moved to the 15 and punts needing to be on spot as much as possible, don't you think it's nice to have a weapon at LS? If that saves one play in a championship season, or in a playoff game it's more than worth it.

Granted it wasn't a LS, but didn't that airmail snap in the Super Bowl basically sink Pey Pey? Snaps are very underrated, be it by the center or LS.

Todd Bradley said:

Listen, I never like to question Bill, but first off, why in the world would you spend a fifth-round draft pick on a Long Snapper, who pretty much could've been a UDFA singing, and secondly, why spend it on a guy who may have to leave the team at some point in the near future?

Seems like there's now controversy, however small it may be, for what should otherwise be the most controversy-free position.

A fifth-round Cornerback would look might fine on the roster over Cardona. No offense to him, as he could possibly end up being the league's greatest LS of all-time, who knows, but that is not a position you invest a solid draft pick into when there's a glaring need on this roster.

Rant over.

Click to expand...

Belichick and his father have a long standing history with the school, so I think he does it out of respect for them and his background

Patriot Missile said:

I agree. Wasn't happy with the 5th round pick they used on him regarding the situation. Probably could of got him with a late 6th or 7th maybe? I don't have the facts on who was looking at him either though. However, he's a Patriot regardless and I'm going to support him now regardless and hope for the best. That's pretty much all you can do at this point because this truly is out of everyone else's hand except the US Navy and Joe Cardona. Hope your wrong about the 2 year out of football thing.

Click to expand...

BB probably has contacts that said he would be able to play. Now it looks like he can, so I'm guessing it wasn't such a gamble.

Bobsyouruncle said:

BB probably has contacts that said he would be able to play. Now it looks like he can, so I'm guessing it wasn't such a gamble.

Click to expand...

Yeah maybe they are going to honor Steve Belichick Sr for his commitment to Annapolis all those years.

Todd Bradley said:

Listen, I never like to question Bill, but first off, why in the world would you spend a fifth-round draft pick on a Long Snapper, who pretty much could've been a UDFA singing, and secondly, why spend it on a guy who may have to leave the team at some point in the near future?

Seems like there's now controversy, however small it may be, for what should otherwise be the most controversy-free position.

A fifth-round Cornerback would look might fine on the roster over Cardona. No offense to him, as he could possibly end up being the league's greatest LS of all-time, who knows, but that is not a position you invest a solid draft pick into when there's a glaring need on this roster.

Rant over.

Click to expand...

If he had been an UDFA signing, he almost certainly wouldn't have been given the go-ahead by the Navy. Draft position (and resulting contract guarantees) are almost certainly important in this matter.

I doubt many players in this yea's draft had a chance to make the Patriots' incredibly deep roster anyway, so if this guy can make it and contribute even a couple of plays, I'm all for it.

THe way I look at it, the Pats' 5th round pick was to SAVE the team a million or so a year.

NFL to investigate BB for giving kickbacks did to his obvious connection to Navy.

Goodell has to be wondering how he can put a stop to this....

Ross12 said:

What the? Only one year? Glad to have him, but that seems odd.

Click to expand...

If cardona doesn't make it in the NFL he can jump right back into the Navy, if they gaurenteed him a few years there would be a window where he might lose his edge, so to speak. AFter the 2015 season if Cardona is starting for the patriots, the navy will grant him more time, and eventually down the road he will be assigned as a recruiting agent, and will be expected to do recruiting for the navy during the season/offseason, but most likely would not be deployed.

Basically the navy just said, "Listen kid, you have one year to make it as a pro. If it doesn't work out that's it, your getting deployed. If you make it we can cross that bridge when we get there."

chasa said:

If cardona doesn't make it in the NFL he can jump right back into the Navy, if they gaurenteed him a few years there would be a window where he might lose his edge, so to speak. AFter the 2015 season if Cardona is starting for the patriots, the navy will grant him more time, and eventually down the road he will be assigned as a recruiting agent, and will be expected to do recruiting for the navy during the season/offseason, but most likely would not be deployed.

Basically the navy just said, "Listen kid, you have one year to make it as a pro. If it doesn't work out that's it, your getting deployed. If you make it we can cross that bridge when we get there."

Click to expand...

Well said chasa. Thanks for the thought-out response.

I do want to note for those who mentioned it, there was a fair amount of talk about other teams being very interested in Cardona during the draft, I think one was KC and another might've been Baltimore. Bill specifically targeted him in the 5th not only to show his commitment to him to the Navy, but also to get him before other teams could. Seriously, this guy is legit. We'll all be wondering how we ever thought Aiken was acceptable in a year's time.

Seems like the Navy might also be more likely to grant a waiver/deferment to a drafted player as opposed to an UDFA. How many cadets are drafted into the NFL per 10 years? Many times that likely get offered a tryout, but being drafted reflects real team interest rather than a desire for a "camp body"

Ross12 said:

We'll all be wondering how we ever thought Aiken was acceptable in a year's time.

Click to expand...

We were very lucky IMO that long-snapping did not, to my knowledge, cost us a game last year.

Ross12 said:

Right, I don't see why they can't let him play out his 4 year rookie contract, then serve a couple years after, and be free to go back to football after. Having a professional player from the academies would give good visibility, wouldn't it? I know he's a long snapper, but still.

Click to expand...

The service academies are service first and then sports. You do not go to the academy for a career in football or basketball. They also do not need to promote themselves as people wanting a military career know those service academies are the first choice.

The football players need to satisfy general physical fitness standards (picture a Division I lineman having to make 22% or less bodyfat - often major yo-yo dieting). David Robinson was 6'1" when he joined the academy, and grew freakishly after he entered the academy. He was disqualified from deploying units by his growth, and thus completed his career at home. Every student in those academies knows the only reason for their being there is to serve as an officer in the military. Only a fool goes there with sights set on a career in professional sports. Deferrals of service can be permitted for reasons such as completing education, but those officers still fulfill service obligations as anyone else would.

I saw first hand the back and forth with a defensive lineman wanting out for a pro football career. The Navy did not want that to happen as he was qualified for duty and got his degree. He deliberately tried to get himself kicked out by failing the physical fitness standards. That guy took a slot, got a free education, and then wanted to decline to answer the call to duty every other student had to answer. Given the fact men and women in his class are likely facing war, and the example of a guy like Pat Tillman who left the NFL to serve his country, it sets a bad precedent to flout that commitment because a better job offer comes along.

Frankly, I do not believe many would want to get out of the service because it would be viewed as a less than honorable action. Not sure Cardona would even want that, and given BB's history with the Naval Academy I am not sure he would be thrilled with that either.

Bobsyouruncle said:

The military will let people out for all sorts of reasons. You can even get out for winning the lotto. The chances of making an NFL roster are exceptionally small. I don't think it's difficult to say if you make a roster you can get out of your commitment. What happens, they lose like one guy every 5 years. Drop in the bucket. If they want they can have them pay back the scholarship or serve post-football.

It's just cruel and unnecessary to make someone give up a once in a lifetime opportunity to go do something they could do at a later date.

Click to expand...

A commitment is a commitment...one that is made before entering your third (junior) year at the Academy. Up until that point, you are free to leave...no questions asked...and with no obligation incurred (i.e. back to the Navy/Govt.). There are many factors involved, to include the fact that a Congressional nomination is typically needed to gain entrance. And yes, the Navy coaching staff does recruit many of its football players...with the understanding that they'll have to serve six years upon graduation...so there's nothing ambiguous concerning the expectation of each player. Having said that, there are numerous cases where the Navy has been quite lenient in how they administer the six year obligation, and therefore I think this latest information (if true) is indicative that the Navy will make another pragmatic decision should the player make the team. I'd be optimistic if I were a Pats fan....

Really good discussion guys. Glad to be talking about something else besides you-know-what.

MassPats38 said:

The service academies are service first and then sports. You do not go to the academy for a career in football or basketball. They also do not need to promote themselves as people wanting a military career know those service academies are the first choice.

The football players need to satisfy general physical fitness standards (picture a Division I lineman having to make 22% or less bodyfat - often major yo-yo dieting). David Robinson was 6'1" when he joined the academy, and grew freakishly after he entered the academy. He was disqualified from deploying units by his growth, and thus completed his career at home. Every student in those academies knows the only reason for their being there is to serve as an officer in the military. Only a fool goes there with sights set on a career in professional sports. Deferrals of service can be permitted for reasons such as completing education, but those officers still fulfill service obligations as anyone else would.

I saw first hand the back and forth with a defensive lineman wanting out for a pro football career. The Navy did not want that to happen as he was qualified for duty and got his degree. He deliberately tried to get himself kicked out by failing the physical fitness standards. That guy took a slot, got a free education, and then wanted to decline to answer the call to duty every other student had to answer. Given the fact men and women in his class are likely facing war, and the example of a guy like Pat Tillman who left the NFL to serve his country, it sets a bad precedent to flout that commitment because a better job offer comes along.

Frankly, I do not believe many would want to get out of the service because it would be viewed as a less than honorable action. Not sure Cardona would even want that, and given BB's history with the Naval Academy I am not sure he would be thrilled with that either.

Click to expand...

They could defer his commitment. I don't see the logic in screwing somebody over here. Yeah, they can make him lose this opportunity- why would they want to? And the military busts it's own contracts all the time. If they want to beat the commitment drum they should clean their own house first.

The guy gets a one in a million opportunity, it's not hard to come up with a dozen different ways he could serve the Navy without losing it.

Bobsyouruncle said:

If they want to beat the commitment drum they should clean their own house first.

Click to expand...

Seriously? The Navy needs to "clean their own house first"?? The Navy is an institution...and a venerable institution at that. And having just celebrated Memorial Day, we should all remember that many sailors gave their lives for our freedom, to include the freedom to post unfettered opinions on message boards. However it should also be understood that our military institutions are composed of members taken right from our own society, representing the full gamut of societal norms/behaviors, and therefore they may not appear to be perfect when making decisions at the most molecular of levels.

Bottom line: if he makes the 53 man squad, this won't be an issue.