2015 Patriots.

Ross12 said:

Perhaps it is rosy thinking, but they're made on the assumption that Jimmy is good, which I think he is. If he is, with extra time spent running with the ones in training camp and preparing as the starter all of training camp, I think he can manage to win 3 of 4. If he's not good, and simply average (or worse), 1-3 is more likely. But even then, I think the team would put him in a very game-manager type role and focus heavily on running and easy passes.

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Part of me looks forward to "Uh-oh. What if he's really good?"

The rest of me answers "Higher draft pick for him..." And then another part of the rest of me says... "Hmmm. Ask for a 1 in 2016 and a 4 in 2017."

Would be a nice problem to have.

Brady&Springsteen FTW said:

So in one paragraph the front seven is "decent" and in the next it's "great?"

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QUOTE="Interception, post: 4227194, member: 21808"]What I meant is has potential to be great but I can't really look at it as anything more than "decent" until there is a proven improvement in the pass rush. Just a poor choice of words.[/QUOTE]

Using your logic how can you say this?

Interception said:

I know it's still early on but...
Our cornerbacks are barely better than they were in 2011. Past McCourty, we have no sure starters. Butler could step up and continue to improve. Logan Ryan could be serviceable as well. Neither one of those are safe bets.

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Our front seven will be great. Our DB fit in the zone D that BB like. I am not worried at all.

watching Goody pull the trade compensation picks????

Interception said:

I know it's still early on but...

I don't think our offense will have any problem. Blount will continue to rumble through defenders... it's not a great running game, but it's more than serviceable. With Edelman, Gronk, Chandler, and LaFell, we have a passing attack as potent as the 2010 days. That should be enough to get us through Brady's suspension no worse than 1-3 or 2-2, even with Jimmy G. at the helm. Considering we started 2-2 last year, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Now, the concern starts with the defense.
We have a decent front seven but there is still no pass rush. Chandler Jones is who he is and we can expect 10 sacks out of him. Ninko is about the same. Sheard is somewhat of an unknown on our defense. Hightower might step up and continue to improve at rushing the passer, but that is anything but a sure thing.
Our front seven is great, we have some playmakers... but as far as the pass rush alone is concerned, it's defintely not going to be one of the best in the league. Our interior DL has potential but they are just rookies (counting Easley as a rookie), and you can never be sure with rookies.

Our cornerbacks are barely better than they were in 2011. Past McCourty, we have no sure starters. Butler could step up and continue to improve. Logan Ryan could be serviceable as well. Neither one of those are safe bets.

There are a lot of "ifs" on this defense. What if the pass rush doesn't improve and remains about the same as it has? Our secondary will get shredded as it did in 2011. Sure, we made the superbowl in 2011 but I think we were lucky to have even made it that far. It was the result of playing in a weak conference.

So what do you think? How confident are you about a repeat performance?

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We lost our shutdown corner after a NY team commits the most egregious case of tampering in league history (which goes essentially unpunished). The superbowl MVP QB is suspended for 1/4 of the season due to trumped up charges of football deflation. We're losing a 1st round pick due to an arbitrary decision by a biased commissioner who, for inexplicable reasons, has our team owner by the balls. The league clearly has an agenda against us. The media has been relentlessly portraying the team and its fans as the greatest monsters in history since the Nazis.

Yeah, I'm sure we'll be fine for the foreseeable future . . .

I actually am pretty high on Malcolm butler. I think he has potential to be a #1 corner for this team. Reiss stated that members of the patriots organization feel the same way as well. if they can ramp up the pass rush, butler and fletcher might be enough as #1 and #2

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

We lost our shutdown corner after a NY team commits the most egregious case of tampering in league history (which goes essentially unpunished). The superbowl MVP QB is suspended for 1/4 of the season due to trumped up charges of football deflation. We're losing a 1st round pick due to an arbitrary decision by a biased commissioner who, for inexplicable reasons, has our team owner by the balls. The league clearly has an agenda against us. The media has been relentlessly portraying the team and its fans as the greatest monsters in history since the Nazis.

Yeah, I'm sure we'll be fine for the foreseeable future . . .

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Can you please provide examples of the media portraying the team/fans as the greatest monsters since the nazis? That seems a little overboard just because some media believes the patriots are guilty (which is a real possibility however unlikely it may be).

Also keep in mind this team has not lost more than 6 games in a season (rarely more than 4) since we lost our first rounder in 2007.

RIpats88 said:

I actually am pretty high on Malcolm butler. I think he has potential to be a #1 corner for this team. Reiss stated that members of the patriots organization feel the same way as well. if they can ramp up the pass rush, butler and fletcher might be enough as #1 and #2

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Butler's progression, along with the offense's usage of all their TEs, are the two things I'm most looking forward to seeing in TC.

PatsFanInVa said:

Part of me looks forward to "Uh-oh. What if he's really good?"

The rest of me answers "Higher draft pick for him..." And then another part of the rest of me says... "Hmmm. Ask for a 1 in 2016 and a 4 in 2017."

Would be a nice problem to have.

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If Grapes rips it up, the mediots will have a field day with the trade Brady talk.

robertweathers said:

If Grapes rips it up, the mediots will have a field day with the trady Brady talk.

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Bledsoe-Brady II

PatsFanInVa said:

Bledsoe-Brady II

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Circle of life...

Interception said:

Can you please provide examples of the media portraying the team/fans as the greatest monsters since the nazis? That seems a little overboard just because some media believes the patriots are guilty (which is a real possibility however unlikely it may be).

Also keep in mind this team has not lost more than 6 games in a season (rarely more than 4) since we lost our first rounder in 2007.

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Ok, maybe not the Nazis but at least the Khmer Rouge.

Ross12 said:

Butler's progression, along with the offense's usage of all their TEs, are the two things I'm most looking forward to seeing in TC.

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Those are two big ones. I'm also looking forward to seeing whether or not Dobson will make a difference, the quality and depth of the DL (or front 7 in general), and the battle that will occur at the position of safety.

The running back battle after Blount will also be noteworthy. Will Gray make the team? Gaffney? What will Cadet look like?

Oh, and the rookie OL, of course! I'd include the progression of guys like Cannon, Fleming, and even Kline.

robertweathers said:

Circle of life...

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“The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.”

― Omar Khayyam

according to bucky brooks, the pats are not even in the top 10 in the league in terms of roster talent. so we must really be in trouble for 2015.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ets-and-eagles-among-nfls-most-talented-teams

TommyBrady12 said:

according to bucky brooks, the pats are not even in the top 10 in the league in terms of roster talent. so we must really be in trouble for 2015.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ets-and-eagles-among-nfls-most-talented-teams

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Bucky is giving Charlie Casserly a run for his money.

The offense will be great in 2015 if Gibson is fully recovered from his injuries. Between he and Chandler, the offense has the depth it lacked a year ago. The pass offense can now survive a few games without Jules or Gronk, and it full health it will be a force.

I think the overall defense might improve. Looking back at the Revis/Browner secondary, I see a lot of big games against bad QBs. When the playoffs came, they got straight up torched, especially by Baltimore.

The difference this year is the front seven. Last year's group had virtually zero depth, and if Jones, Ninkovich, Collins or Hightower missed any time in the playoffs we might not have won #4. We've seen throughout the league that dominant defenses still are the product of dominant front sevens. The 2015 Patriots lacked that and it took truly elite secondary play to mask the defenses flaw.

I view a high level DT/DE as a more valuable asset than high level CB, and I view the net gain in the front seven is greater than the net loss in the secondary. The run defense and pass rush should be better, and the team is deep enough to withstand injury and to keep guys like Nink and Jones from burning out early. As long is the secondary play is merely competent, this team is a legitimate Super Bowl contender. I have faith that Butler and Fletcher can be a competent group of starters. How the depth plays out remains to be seen.

Interception said:

I know it's still early on but...

I don't think our offense will have any problem. Blount will continue to rumble through defenders... it's not a great running game, but it's more than serviceable. With Edelman, Gronk, Chandler, and LaFell, we have a passing attack as potent as the 2010 days. That should be enough to get us through Brady's suspension no worse than 1-3 or 2-2, even with Jimmy G. at the helm. Considering we started 2-2 last year, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Now, the concern starts with the defense
Our cornerbacks are barely better than they were in 2011. Past McCourty, we have no sure starters. Butler could step up and continue to improve. Logan Ryan could be serviceable as well. Neither one of those are safe bets.

There are a lot of "ifs" on this defense. What if the pass rush doesn't improve and remains about the same as it has? Our secondary will get shredded as it did in 2011. Sure, we made the superbowl in 2011 but I think we were lucky to have even made it that far. It was the result of playing in a weak conference.

So what do you think? How confident are you about a repeat performance?

Click to expand...

well, the corner situation worries me, like a lot of people, but I think the pats are loaded.
this isn't meant to be pedantic, or redboarding in any way, but going into last season I said a lot of people were sleeping on the pats even despite their fairly high 'power ranking'.

not to make excuses, but as pats fans, we all know the kind of injury issues the pats have had to deal with in recent years, and we all know the situation we've had at corner, so a healthy team with actual corners figured to dominate, imo, and they had an amazing season playing one of the toughest schedules you'll ever see, and beating the best in the league.
the point being, we might've lost the corners, but a healthy pats team is still loaded, and still looking great.

on offense, maybe people don't appreciate how good they were last year, but if we discount the first 4 games and just look at the final 12 + playoffs, they were scoring on pace with the 2007 team, going against one of the tougher defensive schedules in the league, and I think they have reason to be maybe even a tick better this year.

I think the running game should be pretty strong.
I've seen people knock it last year, but blount played in 7 'meaningful' games, subtracting week 17, and 3 of those 7 happened to be against det, balt, and sea, who were the 3 best defenses in terms of ypc allowed, and another week he only got 10 carries against green bay, but picked up 58 yards.
this year, stork enters as the starting c with a year's experience, a healthy cam fleming is available with some experience, and they added a couple awesome looking rookie prospects.

defensively, pats had one of the younger teams in the league, last year, but I'm concerned about losing wilfork and revis, of course.
we'll see how terribly things shake out at cb, but as has been mentioned quite a bit, front 7 looks great.

I don't think brady misses 4 games, but even if he does I'm not worried about that a bit --- just the corners getting lit up by some of the better qb we might face.

PatsFanInVa said:

Part of me looks forward to "Uh-oh. What if he's really good?"

The rest of me answers "Higher draft pick for him..." And then another part of the rest of me says... "Hmmm. Ask for a 1 in 2016 and a 4 in 2017."

Would be a nice problem to have.

Click to expand...

Take the 4th in 2016 and the 1 in 2017. The penalty with the draft pick had a poison pill attached that if the PAts acquire another 2016 first rounder, they forfeit the higher of the picks!!!!!Assume they win the Super Bowl again and pick #32 and they trade for #17, they would lose #17, not their own pick.....That is just the opposite of 2008 when they traded for the pick that became MAyo (#10 IIRC) and forfeited #31....

eom said:

well, the corner situation worries me, like a lot of people, but I think the pats are loaded.
this isn't meant to be pedantic, or redboarding in any way, but going into last season I said a lot of people were sleeping on the pats even despite their fairly high 'power ranking'.

not to make excuses, but as pats fans, we all know the kind of injury issues the pats have had to deal with in recent years, and we all know the situation we've had at corner, so a healthy team with actual corners figured to dominate, imo, and they had an amazing season playing one of the toughest schedules you'll ever see, and beating the best in the league.
the point being, we might've lost the corners, but a healthy pats team is still loaded, and still looking great.

on offense, maybe people don't appreciate how good they were last year, but if we discount the first 4 games and just look at the final 12 + playoffs, they were scoring on pace with the 2007 team, going against one of the tougher defensive schedules in the league, and I think they have reason to be maybe even a tick better this year.

I think the running game should be pretty strong.
I've seen people knock it last year, but blount played in 7 'meaningful' games, subtracting week 17, and 3 of those 7 happened to be against det, balt, and sea, who were the 3 best defenses in terms of ypc allowed, and another week he only got 10 carries against green bay, but picked up 58 yards.
this year, stork enters as the starting c with a year's experience, a healthy cam fleming is available with some experience, and they added a couple awesome looking rookie prospects.

defensively, pats had one of the younger teams in the league, last year, but I'm concerned about losing wilfork and revis, of course.
we'll see how terribly things shake out at cb, but as has been mentioned quite a bit, front 7 looks great.

I don't think brady misses 4 games, but even if he does I'm not worried about that a bit --- just the corners getting lit up by some of the better qb we might face.

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I see little reason to believe that "our running game should be strong". Losing Vereen and Connolly should have an effect.

On defense, we had the youngest in the league last year, and we lost Wilfork, Revis, Browner and Arrington.

I think that a healthy Siliga and Mayo will help make up for Wilfork leaving, as well as the addition of Brown.

I don't think that we can underestimate the effect of losing our top/starting three corners. We might survive, or not. However, Fletcher, Butler and McClain just don't figure to be great. Our corners will be tested early and often. I suspect that some teams will simply start in shotgun.

If guys play to there potential imagine a lineup of
Jones/Easily/Brown/Sheard on passing downs in the playoffs. Espically vs weak olives like Pitt/ Indy