Goodell already screwed up appeal

This is probably a matter for another thread, but Goodell has single-handedly ruined Brady's "brand" - first by making Spygate out to be something other than what it was - and now actually FABRICATING a scandal, which their own report confirms DID NOT HAPPEN if indeed the best recollection of the lead official is accepted rather than rejected

It's likely wishful thinking but if I were Brady with unlimited millions at some point I'd want to explore whether a civil case was worthwhile, if only to clear my name

DarrylS said:

One thing I heard was that Jeremski and McNally were using team issued cellphones, while Tom used his own.. so is there a difference between team property and personal property..

Nevertheless what is #12's right to privacy, particularly as all the info generated is on Jeremsky and McNally's phones..

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Nobody from the league office, including Goodell, handed over their personal phones for the Mueller Report. Funny how they punished Brady for refusing terms that they also refused when they were under investigation.

IllegalContact said:

The Wells report would be torn apart by the lies of omission. What could the response be when the report chooses to go in the opposite direction of what Anderson said? And then there's the question of misleading with the idea that the report is independent, it is not.

The only thing any suit needs to do is enforce a truly independent accounting of ALL the fact, assertions, and everything else, and while the question of damages may be argued, what will be made certain is that the report is not done with reaching a full truth in mind.

I see the Jonathan Vilma case as a blueprint. Ultimately, the suspension will be overturned, but the defamation case will be thrown out although Brady certainly has more difinitive actions by the league to go on. Vilma's defamation case counted on the statement: ʺGoodell had no reasonable grounds for believing the truth of his Statements. Goodell relied on, at best, hearsay, circumstantial evidence and lies in making the statements."

The same hold true for Brady, but there may be more substantive examples of this.

In other words, I think Brady's case is stronger than Vilma's........the argument for damages may not be sufficient, but I don't see how the suspension can hold up.

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I agree that the suspension will be overturned but IMO, because they are so hard to prove, I think he'll lose if he goes for it.

Overall I think if Brady gets his suspension overturned, depending on where in the process he is he may drop the defamation case. Just a hunch.

signbabybrady said:

Science makes a pretty compelling case that the balls were not deflated. If you go with Walt's best recollection and apply the gas laws one would think this to be substantial.

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It isn't the science or lack thereof that worries me, it's the interpretation--which really shouldn't apply for such quantitative measurements, but sadly somehow does in a world full of Exponent statements.

robertweathers said:

I agree that the suspension will be overturned but IMO, because they are so hard to prove, I think he'll lose if he goes for it.

Overall I think if Brady gets his suspension overturned, depending on where in the process he is he may drop the defamation case. Just a hunch.

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the wildcard here is the notion of fraud.....the leak of the story of 11 of 12 balls being 2lbs under constitutes fraud

FRAUD:

A false representation of a matter of fact—whether by words or by conduct, by false or misleading allegations, or by concealment of what should have been disclosed—that deceives and is intended to deceive another so that the individual will act upon it to her or his legal injury.

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The NFL could be charged with fraud

robertweathers said:

Overall I think if Brady gets his suspension overturned, depending on where in the process he is he may drop the defamation case. Just a hunch.

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As noted, I would be outright shocked if there were actually a defamation case brought forth, but we'll have to see. It isn't quite as easy as some seem to believe, and how in the world would you prove malicious intent from a sports journalist's report (albeit incorrect)? That happens every single day on some level in sports and entertainment. Hasn't anyone ever noticed the ridiculous headlines on "People" or "Us" magazines suggesting that Obama has a crack habit, or some actress is pregnant for the 15th time or something? Incorrect reports about DUI's and drug busts, etc?

Even the shoddy investigation that followed probably wouldn't be grounds for a defamation case. It's simply ****ty investigating! How would you prove that there were some type of conspiracy behind everything to purposefully defame the reputation of a sports figure? I would be very interested in seeing how that would occur. My guess is that much like the Vilma case which single-handedly picked him out and seemed to blame everything on him as the ringleader, would be thrown out rather quickly.

I would definitely agree with you that if the suspension gets overturned, Brady would likely be happy with clearing his punishment, and therefore his reputation. That ruling alone would solve Brady's main problem, outside of the fact that the loss of draft picks hurts the team down the road.

BradyFTW! said:

Nobody from the league office, including Goodell, handed over their personal phones for the Mueller Report. Funny how they punished Brady for refusing terms that they also refused when they were under investigation.

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This is exactly why i think Brady's suspension will be overturned. He will play week 1 against the Steelers in fear of what the phone records will find during Discovery.

Can you imagine seeing a text or phone call from Goodell to one of his goons saying to take down Brady and the Pats because simply " they win to much"

IllegalContact said:

the wildcard here is the notion of fraud.....the leak of the story of 11 of 12 balls being 2lbs under constitutes fraud

FRAUD:


The NFL could be charged with fraud

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Just out of curiosity, didn't the exact same thing happen--with a much more concrete case against Thomase and the Herald?

I mean...they published an incorrect report about allegedly taping practices, which had nothing to do with their Spygate scandal. Thomase actually came out and admitted his mistake, yet there was no "fraud" brought forth. No defamation of character lawsuits. Sadly, their reputation has indeed been negatively affected by this one report, and continues to be so to this day.

I don't see the same kind of clear cut examples with a shoddy report from Chris Mortenson, but that's just my opinion. Whether the balls were down by "up to 2 PSI" or not, they were still down. It's nothing more than shoddy journalism. I can't see how a judge would rule that Mortenson purposefully meant to defraud the New England Patriots by publishing his story.

BradyFTW! said:

Nobody from the league office, including Goodell, handed over their personal phones for the Mueller Report. Funny how they punished Brady for refusing terms that they also refused when they were under investigation.

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You have to realize that the NFL investigations start with a desired result and work backwards. The powerful owners, Mara and Rooney and their flunky, Kraft wanted to absolve Goodell after the Rice fiasco so any potentially incriminating evidence was excluded from the investigation. Obviously, in the deflation fiasco, the opposite result was desired, so any exculpatory information was excluded and in absence of incriminating information conclusions were fabricated or inferred from the unavailability of negative information.

JoeSixPat said:

It's likely wishful thinking but if I were Brady with unlimited millions at some point I'd want to explore whether a civil case was worthwhile, if only to clear my name

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Especially if there's any truth to some of the many rumors that we've heard over the years suggesting his interest in politics. Situations like this aren't a good look for him.

supafly said:

Just out of curiosity, didn't the exact same thing happen--with a much more concrete case against Thomase and the Herald?

I mean...they published an incorrect report about allegedly taping practices, which had nothing to do with their Spygate scandal. Thomase actually came out and admitted his mistake, yet there was no "fraud" brought forth. No defamation of character lawsuits. Sadly, their reputation has indeed been negatively affected by this one report, and continues to be so to this day.

I don't see the same kind of clear cut examples with a shoddy report from Chris Mortenson, but that's just my opinion. Whether the balls were down by "up to 2 PSI" or not, they were still down. It's nothing more than shoddy journalism. I can't see how a judge would rule that Mortenson purposefully meant to defraud the New England Patriots by publishing his story.

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I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that a court coud find it "more probable than not" that the leak came from the NFL under a civil standard. So then you have them not correcting it.

But I can't disagree there is probably a lot that would need to get worked out by his legal team.

Is anyone else here sick of Goodell's face and robotic, matter-of-fact tone of expression? I have a visceral revulsion to him whenever I see the goon's photo or view him on TV. He doesn't seem like a real person.

Uphill battle. Like going back in time and explaining cellphones to Civil War era citizens. How do you explain a scientific phenomena to people who have no clue ? And you also need to fight the masses... They are dumb and highly motivated. When you get into a stupid argument with stupid people, they will beat you due to their experience.

IllegalContact said:

the wildcard here is the notion of fraud.....the leak of the story of 11 of 12 balls being 2lbs under constitutes fraud

FRAUD:


The NFL could be charged with fraud

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Oh cmon...it was an honest mistake.

supafly said:

Just out of curiosity, didn't the exact same thing happen--with a much more concrete case against Thomase and the Herald?

I mean...they published an incorrect report about allegedly taping practices, which had nothing to do with their Spygate scandal. Thomase actually came out and admitted his mistake, yet there was no "fraud" brought forth. No defamation of character lawsuits. Sadly, their reputation has indeed been negatively affected by this one report, and continues to be so to this day.

I don't see the same kind of clear cut examples with a shoddy report from Chris Mortenson, but that's just my opinion. Whether the balls were down by "up to 2 PSI" or not, they were still down. It's nothing more than shoddy journalism. I can't see how a judge would rule that Mortenson purposefully meant to defraud the New England Patriots by publishing his story.

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these are the exact words:

The investigation found the footballs were inflated 2 pounds per square inch below what's required by NFL regulations during the Pats' 45-7 victory over the Indianapolis Colts, according to sources.

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this has been proven to be a lie........in this instance, if the accurate levels of the balls was communicated, there's nothing to talk about, but somebody who started with a lie needs to be pinpointed

I doubt it's shoddy reporting....given the context, I believe Mortensen only wrote what he was told. Somewhere between the actual measurement of the balls and Mortensen, somebody decided to embellish.
Simple fraud, really........and you can bet that Mortensen won't be stuck with the lie.

supafly said:

Even the shoddy investigation that followed probably wouldn't be grounds for a defamation case. It's simply ****ty investigating! How would you prove that there were some type of conspiracy behind everything to purposefully defame the reputation of a sports figure? I would be very interested in seeing how that would occur. My guess is that much like the Vilma case which single-handedly picked him out and seemed to blame everything on him as the ringleader, would be thrown out rather quickly.

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I think that is where the NFL, Goodell and his cronies are going to get screwed. They suspend TB for not turning over his phone - it will be interesting to see what level RG refuses to cooperate with an in-depth discovery process on the issue of fraud and defamation.

farn said:

Like going back in time and explaining cellphones to Civil War era citizens.

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I've done that with little difficulty. It helped showing them old "Star Trek" episodes to illustrate the concept. What they had the most trouble with, though, was smartphones. I told them that sometimes "progress" isn't really progress, and that life truly was better in the days of the telegraph.