Goodell already screwed up appeal

robertweathers said:

Wells' report is purposed for a civil suit. He leveraged a preponderance of evidence to support the NFLs position that TB was "generally aware". That does not show defamation.

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"generally aware" of what? it is defamation to claim that someone is "generally aware" of something they can't even prove actually happened.

also, someone will ask why there was such a definitive conclusion (the punishment) based on 50.1% assumption, and the only answer the NFL has is "because we can" ... I don't think the NFL can win anything that way outside of the NFL

right now, the only things tangible to the issue as it pertains to Brady is the punishment and his marketability.........the reason that even came out recently is that the skids are being greased for the tangible damages suffered by Brady

Brady will likely get an injunction that will prevent him from being suspended for any part of the 2015 ..... between precedence and and a lack of material, a civil court would like see the situation as one where the NFL overstepped it's own bounds

supafly said:

Defamation? There's a LOT of gray area there, as many people have pointed out, which is why many feel that it's not too likely to occur. It's hardly a clear cut situation where Brady would be granted a bite at that apple.

A so-called "independent investigation" that presents some loosely based findings of guilt ('more probable than not that he was generally aware' is very careful wording) is hardly an attempt at defamation of character. Can a suspension or loss of pay be overturned? Yes. Can the legality of the CBA and power of the commissioner be questioned? Yes--but you're talking about something entirely different in terms of suing someone for willfully attempting to destroy one's character, and that may be difficult to prove.

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I'd say knowingly publishing incorrect psi readings on the NFL network (which the NFL owns and operates) is a pretty legitimate claim for defamation. If Brady gets a favorable verdict in a defamation case against Goodell and the NFL* . . . WOW!

PatsWickedPissah said:

Think about this.
The ex-Jet NFL execs despise BB. I believe that they expect to find some texts between TFB & BB that make some oblique reference to balls that they can then go Aha! and kick BB out of the league.

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Does BB even have a cell phone?

You know I thought about that after I posted. He might have a cellphone but probably no texting.

DarrylS said:

If they have McNally and Jeremski's phone don't they already have access to all of the texts in question?? If not who else is involved in this matter?? Jeremski and McNally were "Patriots" cell phones, Brady's was personal..

Cannot expand the investigation as it is complete and according to the NFL, "justice" has been administered...

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Texts to Schoenfeld maybe?

Goody is bating him. Tom won't fall for it.

Froob said:

Does BB even have a cell phone?

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Yep. It comes in a bag and weighs 60 lbs.

PatsWickedPissah said:

You know I thought about that after I posted. He might have a cellphone but probably no texting.

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I could only imagine though "sorry Tom just busting your balls" GOT EM!!!!!!!

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

I'd say knowingly publishing incorrect psi readings on the NFL network (which the NFL owns and operates) is a pretty legitimate claim for defamation. If Brady gets a favorable verdict in a defamation case against Goodell and the NFL* . . . WOW!

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Right now, the leaks out of the NFL front office stand to be more damning than anything. their only purpose is to defame

Go back to step 1. It is the simplest argument to make that the only purpose for the Mortensen leak was to defame Brady, and all of the damages that have been incurred since have that leak as the basis.

The original lie is going to crush the NFL front office the moment it leaves Park Avenue. This is on par with the handling of the video in the Ray Rice case. A very strong argument can be made that none of this would have happened if it weren't for the original lie that was publicized. BOOM.....over before it even gets going since everything since can be traced directly to the original lie.

IllegalContact said:

"generally aware" of what? it is defamation to claim that someone is "generally aware" of something they can't even prove actually happened.

also, someone will ask why there was such a definitive conclusion (the punishment) based on 50.1% assumption, and the only answer the NFL has is "because we can" ... I don't think the NFL can win anything that way outside of the NFL

right now, the only things tangible to the issue as it pertains to Brady is the punishment and his marketability.........the reason that even came out recently is that the skids are being greased for the tangible damages suffered by Brady

Brady will likely get an injunction that will prevent him from being suspended for any part of the 2015 ..... between precedence and and a lack of material, a civil court would like see the situation as one where the NFL overstepped it's own bounds

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I agree, Illegal that its BS. I believe the Wells Report would hold up vs a defermation suit.

Goody using too much latitude and not being consistent with his punishment is an entirely different matter. Maybe they go after both?

robertweathers said:

I agree, Illegal that its BS. I believe the Wells Report would hold up vs a defermation suit.

Goody using too much latitude and not being consistent with his punishment is an entirely different matter. Maybe they go after both?

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I 'm not so sure

I'm not a lawyer but I think I'd just start from the point of noting that according to the best recollection of the official, no unusual deflation occurred. I'd ask the judge to accept that recollection and not throw it out as Wells did

At that point, what is there to punish FOR? That he didn't provide his cellphone for an investigation into deflation that did not occur?

robertweathers said:

I agree, Illegal that its BS. I believe the Wells Report would hold up vs a defermation suit.

Goody using too much latitude and not being consistent with his punishment is an entirely different matter. Maybe they go after both?

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The Wells report would be torn apart by the lies of omission. What could the response be when the report chooses to go in the opposite direction of what Anderson said? And then there's the question of misleading with the idea that the report is independent, it is not.

The only thing any suit needs to do is enforce a truly independent accounting of ALL the fact, assertions, and everything else, and while the question of damages may be argued, what will be made certain is that the report is not done with reaching a full truth in mind.

I see the Jonathan Vilma case as a blueprint. Ultimately, the suspension will be overturned, but the defamation case will be thrown out although Brady certainly has more difinitive actions by the league to go on. Vilma's defamation case counted on the statement: ʺGoodell had no reasonable grounds for believing the truth of his Statements. Goodell relied on, at best, hearsay, circumstantial evidence and lies in making the statements."

The same hold true for Brady, but there may be more substantive examples of this.

In other words, I think Brady's case is stronger than Vilma's........the argument for damages may not be sufficient, but I don't see how the suspension can hold up.

robertweathers said:

Texts to Schoenfeld maybe?

Goody is bating him. Tom won't fall for it.

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I assume wells took schoenfeld's phone too, being equipment manager.

I suspect there are texts that pertain to the deflation on McNally and Jastremski's phone. If there are texts that go something like this:

"Hey, did you guys deflate the balls"

"No, I didn't do anything"

Then it would look strange for Wells to not include them. Given the size of this whole scandal it seems odd that nobody ever texted him about the issue. I bet Wells left it out because it didn't support his case. Whether he believes thectexts or not, those texts were relevant.

One thing that has bothered me is that the initial investigation was either deviously planned or completely botched. When they took the 11 balls in question off of the playing field to test them and found them out of regulation why did they re-inflate them and put them back on the field? Why did they not keep them as evidence? Did someone have this done purposely so that we may never know what those footballs actually measured? The footballs in question did not have enough time to warm up and return to their original pressure. If there was ever a time to use back up footballs that was the time. If they had kept the balls in question as evidence and tested them after the game which would have given them plenty of time to reach their original pressure in that locker room we would never had needed a Wells report. So was this done intentionally or was it just botched?

If those footballs were originally 12.5 and on the field they deflated to 11.o they would have returned to 12.5 in about 15 minutes if they were dry. Point being those footballs did not have enough time to reach their original pressure hence the need for a pretty little time chart estimating inflation rates when changing environments with the additional caveat of a window to compensate for the logo and non logo gauges. What a bunch of horse crap.

Hey Tom can I see your phone? Why? Because we are a clueless organization trying to pin something on you and we need one word such as "dorito dink" or "deflator" in a text message to ban you from the league for life. So can we have it?

Froob said:

Does BB even have a cell phone?

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He definitely does. Met him at the Baltimore airport a few months ago.

There's also probably nothing that important on it, because he left his phone alone at the charging station until like a minute before he boarded his flight. Classic Bill, not giving a damn.

JoeSixPat said:

I 'm not so sure

I'm not a lawyer but I think I'd just start from the point of noting that according to the best recollection of the official, no unusual deflation occurred. I'd ask the judge to accept that recollection and not throw it out as Wells did

At that point, what is there to punish FOR? That he didn't provide his cellphone for an investigation into deflation that did not occur?

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SVN said:

I assume wells took schoenfeld's phone too, being equipment manager.

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I didn't notice it in the report section or the appendix. That's why I brought it up.

This is where introducing new evidence to enforce or refute makes things interesting.

DC_Patriot said:

He definitely does. Met him at the Baltimore airport a few months ago.

There's also probably nothing that important on it, because he left his phone alone at the charging station until like a minute before he boarded his flight. Classic Bill, not giving a damn.

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Not even one text from the Dorito Dink?

Froob said:

I hope Brady doesn't try very hard. Go to court and expose Goodell and Kensil's phone and email.

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As Goodell has already violated his own Personal Conduct Policy by conspiring with other NFL execs and the execs of a one franchise in an attempt to damage another franchise - I wonder who will hear his case?


Conduct that undermines or puts at risk the integrity of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL personnel.

It is a privilege to be part of the National Football League. Everyone who is part of the league must refrain from “conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in” the NFL. This includes owners, coaches, players, other team employees, game officials, and employees of the league office, NFL Films, NFL Network, or any other NFL business. Conduct by anyone in the league that is illegal, violent, dangerous, or irresponsible puts innocent victims at risk, damages the reputation of others in the game, and undercuts public respect and support for the NFL. We must endeavor at all times to be people of high character; we must show respect for others inside and outside our workplace; and we must strive to conduct ourselves in ways that favorably reflect on ourselves, our teams, the communities we represent, and the NFL.

This policy applies to the Commissioner; all owners; all employees of the NFL, NFL clubs, and all NFL-related entities, including players under contract, coaches, game officials; all rookie players selected in the NFL college draft and all undrafted rookie players, unsigned veterans who were under contract in the prior League Year; and other prospective employees once they commence negotiations with a club concerning employment. Clubs and league staff are strongly encouraged to communicate this policy to independent contractors and consultants and to make clear that violations of this policy will be grounds for terminating a business relationship.

TommyBrady12 said:

asking brady for new information is helpful to brady. if goodell relies on only the wells report, then brady is screwed.

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This supports my belief the NFL wants a way out, no law suit.
In light of the new information...we escape with our shirts

What will satisfy 12?
And Mrs 12? Not a lightweight, that gal.

I humbly offer a solution.
Tommy is offered the London expansion franchise.

He balks...wait, his inner redneck thinks,
Foo'ball is Murrikin dude..

Therefore..
London, and LA.

Mmmm?
Okay. Plus, Big Apology.
*
I can see it now, easily. "New Face of the NFL". Tabloid pics of the spectacular couple worldwide.
People magazine, His and hers teams.


Biggest issues?
2) team colors.

London suggestion, a blast from the past.



Release the hounds.





******************

supafly said:

Defamation?

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The strongest part of this in clear view is the Mort Report.
It was entirely incorrect. Prejudicial, to the extreme.
NFL sat on it.
Why?

This simple fact is ignored, and currently buried under
a 20 million dollar 243 preparation of smoke.

$82304.53 per page.

Motive determination will require some discovery.
Motivated by an interesting question,
when in NFL history has this ever been an issue?
Within the context of the league letting QB's prepare the balls.
History of not recording numbers, etc.

Did they suddenly discover a great wrong here?

There is no plausible way of explaining this to a judge.

This is not Chris Russo, nor the average fan who needed no convincing, no proof.
NFL wants to basically start here with a judge?

Nah.

So would Tom and his number one care to hold out for his and her
NFL teams in contrasting colors?
St Louis, Jacsonville, Oakland, San Diego folks would all like this.

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

I'd say knowingly publishing incorrect psi readings on the NFL network (which the NFL owns and operates) is a pretty legitimate claim for defamation. If Brady gets a favorable verdict in a defamation case against Goodell and the NFL* . . . WOW!

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Totally agree, and that's just one instance is misconduct in a scandal full of misconduct. Newspapers have to publish a retraction when they realize something they published was damaging because it was incorrect, why would the NFL as an organization get a free pass on correcting itself from a court? No one from the NFL has even come out and explicitly stated the original report was wrong yet! Instead we are left to determine on our own the report was wrong, from the data in the Wells Report.

I suppose the NFL might argue they don't know who leaked the report or even if it was done by an NFL employee and are not under a duty to correct false information spread by those outside the organization. But come on.

Edit: I guess Seven above me said about the same thing.