Benedict Arnold was intelligent and successful too.....

.........and then he committed treason.

Benedict was actually a very good general and won many victories for our country:

"After joining the growing army outside Boston, he distinguished himself through acts of intelligence and bravery. His actions included the Capture of Fort Ticonderoga in 1775, defensive and delaying tactics despite losing the Battle of Valcour Island on Lake Champlain in 1776, the Battle of Ridgefield, Connecticut (after which he was promoted to major general), operations in relief of the Siege of Fort Stanwix, and key actions during the pivotal Battles of Saratoga in 1777, in which he suffered leg injuries that ended his combat career for several years."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_Arnold


So after so many victories won through intelligence and bravery and even after being wounded for his country in battle why is Benedict Arnold remembered so poorly?


"While a general on the American side, he obtained command of the fortifications at West Point, New York (future site of the U.S. Military Academy after 1802), overlooking the cliffs at the Hudson River (upriver from British- occupied New York City), and planned to surrender it to the British forces. After the plan was exposed in September 1780, he was commissioned into the British Army as a brigadier general."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_Arnold


That one profound act of treachery defined him for the rest of his life and he will forever be known as a turncoat rather than a Patriot.

Bob Kraft, after this moment in time and in the hearts of true Patriots fans, will always been seen as a turncoat and not a Patriot by deciding to surrender us over to the British (NFL).

Tarnished because a guy took a piss before kick off.

I dont know so much about the history of USA









but he wasnt a traitor

reneluar said:

I dont know so much about the history of USA

but he wasnt a traitor

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I certainly wouldn't call what he did today as acting like a Patriot. If anything I think Benedict Arnold would approve.

If we want to do Revolutionary War analogies then this was the team's Valley Forge and George Washington decided to surrender after ordering his second in command be shot.

VectorPrime said:

If we want to do Revolutionary War analogies then this was the team's Valley Forge and George Washington decided to surrender after ordering his second in command be shot.

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George Washington....profile of courage.

Bob Kraft......profile of treachery.

The ironic thing is Benedict probably isn't known that well otherwise if you think about it. Obviously it's better to be a nobody than to be infamous though.

Benedict Arnold was repeatedly screwed over by his peers (besides Washington) and Congress, so his turn was actually not that surprising. Kraft got nothing but love and praise from us until he turned his back on us. Much different situations, but both will be remembered the same.

RI Patriots fan said:

.........and then he committed treason.

Benedict was actually a very good general and won many victories for our country:


Bob Kraft, after this moment in time and in the hearts of true Patriots fans, will always been seen as a turncoat and not a Patriot by deciding to surrender us over to the British (NFL).

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I really really wish there was an icon for Disgusting.
You are absurd to say the least. Your so called comparison is so bad.
Just suppose for one moment, that what Mr Kraft did, his decision not to pursue a No Win course
of action, is the right thing to do for the Patriots considering the possible outcomes of such actions.
Then would you call him a turn coat? Do you really believe this man who loves his Patriots would put
money or prestige or most anything over something he has so much pride in building. If so,
you are one deluded dude.

JR4 said:

I really really wish there was an icon for Disgusting.
You are absurd to say the least. Your so called comparison is so bad.
Just suppose for one moment, that what Mr Kraft did, his decision not to pursue a No Win course
of action, is the right thing to do for the Patriots considering the possible outcomes of such actions.
Then would you call him a turn coat? Do you really believe this man who loves his Patriots would put
money or prestige or most anything over something he has so much pride in building. If so,
you are one deluded dude.

Click to expand...

Do you really think I care about your little "icons".....lol. I'm an adult. Press all the "icons" you want, I could care less.

It wasn't a "no win" scenario. It was a "what do I stand for" scenario and he chose the "British" over the Patriots.

Dude....the delusion is all on your end. I don't know what Kraft is paying you but if you haven't noticed, your "understanding" of the situation is accepted by the vast, vast minority of Patriot "fans". The vast, vast majority agree with me. So, before you talk "delusional" you might want to have a better understanding of the landscape first.

RI Patriots fan said:

Do you really think I care about your little "icons".....lol. I'm an adult. Press all the "icons" you want, I could care less.

It wasn't a "no win" scenario. It was a "what do I stand for" scenario and he chose the "British" over the Patriots.

Dude....the delusion is all on your end. I don't know what Kraft is paying you but if you haven't noticed, your "understanding" of the situation is accepted by the vast, vast minority of Patriot "fans". The vast, vast majority agree with me. So, before you talk "delusional" you might want to have a better understanding of the landscape first.

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The vast majority of people agreeing with you doesn't make you right. This type of thinking leads to no progress.
How can you be so sure it's not a "no win" scenario? You CAN'T.
Let's say it is a no win scenario.
What is better?
a) keep fighting and cause more damage to your organization and league.
b) count your blessings, bitterly accept the punishment, back down to avoid more damage.

Kraft picking the second option instead of continuing to fight out of anger shows why he is a successful businessman who makes decisions based on logic instead of emotion. This is why he's a billionaire making those decisions and we're fans complaining about it on a message board.

Well, as long as we're using historical battles for analogies, should Kraft have led a Charge of the Light Brigade?

JR4 said:

I really really wish there was an icon for Disgusting.
You are absurd to say the least. Your so called comparison is so bad.
Just suppose for one moment, that what Mr Kraft did, his decision not to pursue a No Win course
of action, is the right thing to do for the Patriots considering the possible outcomes of such actions.

Click to expand...

You don't know it was a no win as others have had punishments reduced on appeal. Secondly as I wrote in another thread, it would have allowed him to preserve his appeal rights should Brady prevail in court. Even if his appeal was denied, he could have gone back to the owners/commissioner and said, " look the underlying offense was just eviscerated by a court . The Patriots penalty was based on that and should be overturned." By not appealing, he basically waived the right to do that, even if it would have been unsuccessful. There are principles worth fighting for, even when the battle looks lost. I was raised to "give your best efforts always and be able to look yourself in the mirror" after. Can Bob Kraft say he gave his best efforts and supported his team and his best player??????

JR4 said:

Then would you call him a turn coat? Do you really believe this man who loves his Patriot$ would put
money or prestige or most anything over something he has so much pride in building. If so,
you are one deluded dude.

Click to expand...

Fixed it for you. He chose his brethren of 32 selfish jealous miscreants over the team, the players and fans who helped make this franchise what it is.....along with him....
Not deluded, just realistic.....
A man shows his true character not in times of convenience but in times of crises....Kraft showed his ...

Interception said:

The vast majority of people agreeing with you doesn't make you right. This type of thinking leads to no progress.
How can you be so sure it's not a "no win" scenario? You CAN'T.
Let's say it is a no win scenario.
What is better?
a) keep fighting and cause more damage to your organization and league.
b) count your blessings, bitterly accept the punishment, back down to avoid more damage.

Kraft picking the second option instead of continuing to fight out of anger shows why he is a successful businessman who makes decisions based on logic instead of emotion. This is why he's a billionaire making those decisions and we're fans complaining about it on a message board.

Click to expand...

The fact you are overlooking is that accepting unreasonable punishment to appease a bully only will cause more damage or have you forgotten cameragate. Nobody is demeaning his business prowess only that he puts money ahead of his team and fans.

raduray said:

Well, as long as we're using historical battles for analogies, should Kraft have led a Charge of the Light Brigade?

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More along the lines of Battle of Valcour Island. Benedict Arnold, (when he was still a good guy) outfoxed a massive British armada sent to destroy the US Navy by sending them on a wild goose chase until it was too late in the season for them to attack. He didn't flinch at a "no win" situation....

http://www.cracked.com/article_18765_the-6-most-insane-underdog-stories-in-history-battle.html

flasox27 said:

The fact you are overlooking is that accepting unreasonable punishment to appease a bully only will cause more damage or have you forgotten cameragate. Nobody is demeaning his business prowess only that he puts money ahead of his team and fans.

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I can understand your view! Maybe you're right. But from hearing his voice and how shaken he seemed in that conference, I don't think he was happy with the decision either. Seems like it was the least destruction option.
What if him and his lawyers knew they wouldn't win due to the CBA and other things we fans might not know about? Then it would seem this would be the least destructive option for the fans and the league.

Interception said:

I can understand your view! Maybe you're right. But from hearing his voice and how shaken he seemed in that conference, I don't think he was happy with the decision either. Seems like it was the least destruction option.
What if him and his lawyers knew they wouldn't win due to the CBA and other things we fans might not know about? Then it would seem this would be the least destructive option for the fans and the league.

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You are partially correct. His position is certainly the best for the league and the 31 other teams and their fans. It also the best for Kraft financially in that it keeps the money train rolling. My impression of Kraft was a beaten old man who was so relieved to be part of the fraternity that he was willing to say or do anything to keep his position there. I could understand that if I was in his position but don't lie to the fans and expect them to trust you or you will get exactly what he has received.

Not sure how many ways the same issue can be framed, in fans view Kraft f... ed up "majorly", for some unknown reason he did what he believed was the right thing.. as fans we can draw analogies for many different angles, but nothing will change...

So we can keep rehashing his decision, but the Pats are stuck with what he decided, and despite all the speculation on why he did what he did, all the speculations regarding the conversations with Goodell prior to his presser, the hugs we will never be privy to the inner workings of this decision...

RI Patriots fan said:

.........and then he committed treason.

Benedict was actually a very good general and won many victories for our country:

"After joining the growing army outside Boston, he distinguished himself through acts of intelligence and bravery. His actions included the Capture of Fort Ticonderoga in 1775, defensive and delaying tactics despite losing the Battle of Valcour Island on Lake Champlain in 1776, the Battle of Ridgefield, Connecticut (after which he was promoted to major general), operations in relief of the Siege of Fort Stanwix, and key actions during the pivotal Battles of Saratoga in 1777, in which he suffered leg injuries that ended his combat career for several years."

Click to expand...

Far worse than any of those was the battle for Quebec in '75, which is in itself a tragic story.

http://www.amazon.com/Through-Howling-Wilderness-Benedict-Arnolds/dp/0312339054

Benedict Arnold was a brilliant commander (who had actually saved the country more than once) who felt very slighted because he sacrificed twice as much as the others, and very nearly died in the service of his country, and didn't get recognized- and in fact got passed over for promotion because he was a warrior's warrior, not a politician. Arnold literally had trouble getting along with those he thought were not sacrificing enough for this country.

Kraft on the other hand, only turned because he was worried about what 31 other owners thought of him.

So I don't quite agree with the comparison.

PP2 said:

Far worse than any of those was the battle for Quebec in '75, which is in itself a tragic story.

http://www.amazon.com/Through-Howling-Wilderness-Benedict-Arnolds/dp/0312339054

Benedict Arnold was a brilliant commander (who had actually saved the country more than once) who felt very slighted because he sacrificed twice as much as the others, and very nearly died in the service of his country, and didn't get recognized- and in fact got passed over for promotion because he was a warrior's warrior, not a politician. Arnold literally had trouble getting along with those he thought were not sacrificing enough for this country.

Kraft on the other hand, only turned because he was worried about what 31 other owners thought of him.

So I don't quite agree with the comparison.

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I am well aware of Arnold's grievances. I wasn't trying to give a history lesson but rather I was trying to utilize a well known historical figure's reputation to make a "general" point (no pun intended).