Goodell already screwed up appeal

It's a Kangaroo Court. Expect Goodell to find some way to bungle the appeal. And after the travesty of an 'appeals hearing' then Kesler will wipe the floor with Goodell and embarrass him in federal court.

TheBostonStraggler said:

Abuse of discretion seems like something that would have a lot of gray area. With gray area certainly comes established and yet to be established legal avenues, however, it seems as if the evidence of bias and abuse will have to be pretty solid (Brady has to provide a substantial piece of evidence of his actual innocence otherwise the abuse of discretion on assigning guilt is DOA).

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I hate to cut just one area of such an insightful post full of quality points and issues to ponder, but I think you wrap it up quite nicely with the abuse of discretion point. I incorrectly assumed that we were still referring to the possibility of defamation of character--which also obviously has a lot of gray area, probably even much more. Either way, I'm leery as to whether or not things will go quite as smoothly as we all hope.

For those of you who watched the X-Files, this whole thing reminds me of the finale where Mulder is accused of killing a super-soldier who can't be killed, is put on trial in a naval court and director Kersh is told to be the judge and deliver a guilty sentence. Jury is hand picked, Mulder is found guilty and sentenced to death by lethal injection. The only difference is when Mulder and company are trying to escape, Kersh has a change of heart and helps them out. Don’t see God-Del doing that.

Brady is a fall guy in a bad sting operation by the league to “finally get those big bad Patriots that always win.” Also completely takes the focus off why the Colts were only able to put up 7 points in an AFC title game and shifts the focus on alleged technicality infractions that everyone does anyway.

I have no problem with Andrew Luck, he seems like a good guy that just happens to be the quarterback of a whiny team and organization, but they should wear pink diapers as uniforms when they go out next season.

corruptgoddell said:

I have no problem with Andrew Luck, he seems like a good guy that just happens to be the quarterback of a whiny team and organization, but they should wear pink diapers as uniforms when they go out next season.

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I find it mildly amusing that we live in a society where no one can even testify when someone takes someone else's life without being labeled a "snitch" forever--yet no one seems to give a damn about whiners like the Colts or Jets. It's absolutely amazing to me.

supafly said:

I hate to cut just one area of such an insightful post full of quality points and issues to ponder, but I think you wrap it up quite nicely with the abuse of discretion point. I incorrectly assumed that we were still referring to the possibility of defamation of character--which also obviously has a lot of gray area, probably even much more. Either way, I'm leery as to whether or not things will go quite as smoothly as we all hope.

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That's probably my error Sup. I didn't read the whole sub thread you were responding to.

On the point of defamation -- granted this is just my legally ignorant opinion -- against the NFL, I would think it is 90+% DOA. The NFL made a judgement on an infraction of a rule. As lousy as we think they executed the process and as cowardly as they then proceeded with it after the decision, I don't believe they ever stated he was a cheater or similar. Maybe Brady could bring a case against Wells (unlikely) or some other entity, but the NFL appears to me to be CYA'd via the process of hiring Wells, exercising its contractually allowed discretion, as well as it's carefully Krafted(sic) public statements regarding it.

With that said, is defamation needed? Personally I like Brady hanging his hat on 'abuse of discretion'. Seems to me Goodell is factually a serial abuser of discretion (according to at least 2 independent entities). And since 'abuse of discretion' appears to cast a potentially wide net, coupled with with his established pattern(assuming something like this is admissible), just one or two pieces of 'more probable than not' evidence (emails? leaks? transcriptions, letters to the Patriots?) to connect the Wells<->Goodell not independent trail, we now appear to have some decent footing to convince a judge to allow a legal proceeding, one based on abuse of discretion, one based on the finding of guilt. If Brady can get there on that basis, I will be very happy (though still not crazily optimistic).

Just hope this all has a good ending at this point

Goodell may be an ahole but I really doubt he and his lawyers would do all this without thinking of the repercussions if this goes to court. The unknown here is what makes one wary-what is his gameplan? Cant be to act as arbitrator and hold the judgement and then get thrown out in the court. Even he knows this will happen so there must be something else.

SVN said:

Goodell may be an ahole but I really doubt he and his lawyers would do all this without thinking of the repercussions if this goes to court. The unknown here is what makes one wary-what is his gameplan? Cant be to act as arbitrator and hold the judgement and then get thrown out in the court. Even he knows this will happen so there must be something else.

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Realizing the pessimism involved in the comment, I too, am leery about the end game. I just didn't want to be the one to point that out Hell, I'm leery of the whole NFL and have been since the AFCCG.

VJCPatriot said:

It's a Kangaroo Court. Expect Goodell to find some way to bungle the appeal. And after the travesty of an 'appeals hearing' then Kesler will wipe the floor with Goodell and embarrass him in federal court.

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I keep posting descriptions of what a lawsuit entails, but nobody seems to listen.

On the point of defamation -- granted this is just my legally ignorant opinion -- against the NFL, I would think it is 90+% DOA. The NFL made a judgement on an infraction of a rule. As lousy as we think they executed the process and as cowardly as they then proceeded with it after the decision, I don't believe they ever stated he was a cheater or similar. Maybe Brady could bring a case against Wells (unlikely) or some other entity, but the NFL appears to me to be CYA'd via the process of hiring Wells, exercising its contractually allowed discretion, as well as it's carefully Krafted(sic) public statements regarding it.

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Nah. They will sue for defamation IMHO. I look for multiple suits at once.. I think defamation will be one of them.

This case is pretty tailor made for it. I'd say if you can't prove defamation here - you can't prove it anywhere.

The law of defamation varies from state to state, but there are some generally accepted rules. If you believe you are have been "defamed," to prove it you usually have to show there's been a statement that is all of the following:

• published
• false
• injurious
• unprivileged

Also you have to prove actual malice which all the mediots think is like impossible. But it doesn't mean what people think it means..

Actual Malice
In a legal sense, "actual malice" has nothing to do with ill will or disliking someone and wishing him harm. Rather, courts have defined "actual malice" in the defamation context as publishing a statement while either

• knowing that it is false; or
  
• acting with reckless disregard for the statement's truth or falsity.

The beauty - and while they will do it is because the proceedings will damage the NFL enough such that even if they 'win' they lose..Long as the case doesn't get thrown out right away - and goes somewhere. That's a huge headache for Goodell. A lawyer out to get you is one miserable experience. I look for Goodell to back down and eliminate Tom's suspension..even if he doesn't get the phone records in return for a plea to keep this out of court.

I think he thought he could bluster Tom into compliance - but is likely getting scared now. The 'new evidence' is a ploy for him to save face. "OH now that I see the text messages - I realize Tom didn't do it.." that kind of thing. Not sure Tom will play ball - might want the suit and might not provide the phone..

All the rhetoric about Goodell talking about how he wants to hear Brady's side of the story is BS, Goodell and his minions suspended Brady based on the Wells Report.. those are the facts that he used.

If he made a decision based on that document, what further information is needed or could he want?? The facts are the facts, Wells had the cellphones of McNally and Jeremski, the two other parties in this case, why would he need Brady's?? Unless it is an unadulterated power move... Goodell wants #12's cellphone, because he can??? Or maybe he can sell the contents to TMZ....

In the first round Brady's suspension will be reduced in half, then the inevitable move of this case to Federal Court will eradicate the findings of the NFL... Judge Doty is still active, and the paperwork is already prepared and ready to be filed.

IMO this will be a goundbreaking case on how the NFL administers its kangaroo court justice in the NFL.... Brady has nothing to lose, except his pride for not following through.

VectorPrime said:

Can we just skip the appeal and go straight to the lawsuit please?

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When Goodell is found guilty, the judge should put him in the same cell as Hernandez.

raduray said:

Taking down Goodell would be a great exclamation mark on Brady's legacy.

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Even the fans that are NEP haters hate Goodell more.

DarrylS said:

... Goodell wants #12's cellphone, because he can??? Or maybe he can sell the contents to TMZ....


.

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From the Wells press conference,,,,,

>>>
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...gate-report/sweK5ADLDyhQjnaVBmJRtM/story.html

What about Tom Brady’s lack of cooperation? Did you view Tom Brady as not cooperating fully?


Wells: Mr. Brady, the report sets forth, he came to the interview, he answered every question I put to him. He did not refuse to answer any questions. In terms of the back and forth between Mr. Brady and my team, he was totally cooperative. At the same time, he refused to permit us to review electronic data from his telephone or other instruments<<<<<<<<<<<

What are other instruments?? Did he want his laptop computer or tablet as well? Hell no on that fishing expedition......

Patsfanin Philly said:

From the Wells press conference,,,,,

>>>
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...gate-report/sweK5ADLDyhQjnaVBmJRtM/story.html

What about Tom Brady’s lack of cooperation? Did you view Tom Brady as not cooperating fully?


Wells: Mr. Brady, the report sets forth, he came to the interview, he answered every question I put to him. He did not refuse to answer any questions. In terms of the back and forth between Mr. Brady and my team, he was totally cooperative. At the same time, he refused to permit us to review electronic data from his telephone or other instruments<<<<<<<<<<<

What are other instruments?? Did he want his laptop computer or tablet as well? Hell no on that fishing expedition......

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One thing I heard was that Jeremski and McNally were using team issued cellphones, while Tom used his own.. so is there a difference between team property and personal property..

Nevertheless what is #12's right to privacy, particularly as all the info generated is on Jeremsky and McNally's phones..

DarrylS said:

One thing I heard was that Jeremski and McNally were using team issued cellphones, while Tom used his own.. so is there a difference between team property and personal property..

Nevertheless what is #12's right to privacy, particularly as all the info generated is on Jeremsky and McNally's phones..

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Absolutely there is a difference and the 4th Amendment gives a "reasonable expectation of privacy". While that refers to government intrusion, it can also apply to your employer. Unless you have collectively bargaining giving up rights to privacy ( and there is nothing in the CBA re cell phones) he has a right to stick to his guns...They are on a fishing expedition....Even Wells admitted he cooperated and answered every question. The failure to cooperate comes from not turning over the cell phone. If they find that the NFL had no right to the phone, the underlying offense disappeared as should the penalty.....

DarrylS said:

All the rhetoric about Goodell talking about how he wants to hear Brady's side of the story is BS, Goodell and his minions suspended Brady based on the Wells Report.. those are the facts that he used.

If he made a decision based on that document, what further information is needed or could he want?? The facts are the facts, Wells had the cellphones of McNally and Jeremski, the two other parties in this case, why would he need Brady's?? Unless it is an unadulterated power move... Goodell wants #12's cellphone, because he can??? Or maybe he can sell the contents to TMZ....

In the first round Brady's suspension will be reduced in half, then the inevitable move of this case to Federal Court will eradicate the findings of the NFL... Judge Doty is still active, and the paperwork is already prepared and ready to be filed.

IMO this will be a goundbreaking case on how the NFL administers its kangaroo court justice in the NFL.... Brady has nothing to lose, except his pride for not following through.

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If TB decides to turn over texts pertaining to the investigstion that may give Goody the ammo and justification to knock it down from 4 to 2 or 1 game as opposed to none. TB not cooperating will be the narrative.

Wells' report is purposed for a civil suit. He leveraged a preponderance of evidence to support the NFLs position that TB was "generally aware". That does not show defamation.

That's why going after the commissioner's discretion to weild justice and find areas in which he is implementing ad-hoc law or misinterpreting the CBA is the more strategic and thoughtful approach.

robertweathers said:

If TB decides to turn over texts pertaining to the investigstion that may give Goody the ammo and justification to knock it down from 4 to 2 or 1 game as opposed to none. TB not cooperating will be the narrative.

Wells' report is purposed for a civil suit. He leveraged a preponderance of evidence to support the NFLs position that TB was "generally aware". That does not show defamation.

That's why going after the commissioner's discretion to weild justice and find areas in which he is implementing ad-hoc law or misinterpreting the CBA is the more strategic and thoughtful approach.

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If they have McNally and Jeremski's phone don't they already have access to all of the texts in question?? If not who else is involved in this matter?? Jeremski and McNally were "Patriots" cell phones, Brady's was personal..

Cannot expand the investigation as it is complete and according to the NFL, "justice" has been administered...

supafly said:

I hate to cut just one area of such an insightful post full of quality points and issues to ponder, but I think you wrap it up quite nicely with the abuse of discretion point. I incorrectly assumed that we were still referring to the possibility of defamation of character--which also obviously has a lot of gray area, probably even much more. Either way, I'm leery as to whether or not things will go quite as smoothly as we all hope.

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Science makes a pretty compelling case that the balls were not deflated. If you go with Walt's best recollection and apply the gas laws one would think this to be substantial.

(Brady has to provide a substantial piece of evidence of his actual innocence otherwise the abuse of discretion on assigning guilt is DOA).

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DarrylS said:

If they have McNally and Jeremski's phone don't they already have access to all of the texts in question?? If not who else is involved in this matter?? Jeremski and McNally were "Patriots" cell phones, Brady's was personal..

Cannot expand the investigation as it is complete and according to the NFL, "justice" has been administered...

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Think about this.
The ex-Jet NFL execs despise BB. I believe that they expect to find some texts between TFB & BB that make some oblique reference to balls that they can then go Aha! and kick BB out of the league.